(20-Jul-2019, 06:50 PM)Scott_M Wrote: Welcome !!
Sorry I am late to chime in. I too am a brushed fan and have several. My favorite thing about them is the beating they take
I have a 3" and a 5" but the little guys get most of my stick time with the Mobula7 being my current favorite ( outdoors )

Scott

Hi Scott, Yes, the small "whoop" quads are quite resilient. I have crashed into everything at one point or another and they still fly. Two reasons I like the brushed whoops is the ability to fly indoors and the cost. Also, they are easy to repair and build...and there is an abundance of parts.

(20-Jul-2019, 03:21 PM)kaitylynn Wrote: Sweet!  The closest I have to a "toothpick" build is The Bug, which started life as a 110mm 2" micro that eventually morphed into a 125mm 2.5" rocket.  I think i paid a little more than $80, but it has still been my more economical brushless flyer.  It originally had an XM+ RX that gave me a range of 500 meters.  Eventually that was replaced with an R-XSR and now I have telemetry at the cost of some comfort margin at that range.

Hi Kaitylynn, Took a leap and jumped into the brushless toothpick world with an EMAX Tinyhawk Freestyle; wheelbase 115mm with 2.5 inch props and 1103 motors. WOW. This thing is SWEET and just over $100 complete with extra props, batteries, charger, extra screws, and a nice travel case! It is a 2S quad, but will run on 1S; thankfully as it was way too fast for my space on 2S. Also, it is full on ACRO! I run 2S at the field, but 1S in our yard. It is Great. And...you can't build it for the price. 

Too powerful? You can setup the knob to control the max speed
https://oscarliang.com/reduce-power-thro...#multiplex

(12-Sep-2019, 04:13 PM)Oscar Wrote: Too powerful? You can setup the knob to control the max speed
https://oscarliang.com/reduce-power-thro...#multiplex

Thanks Oscar. I have a Jumper T16 with their fork of OpenTX so it should work. And, thanks for all of your excellent articles (to which I subscribe).

==============================================
Interesting threads; ones I may reference later:

First FPV Drone  >  Last Post

Took the leap - Meteor85 ELRS + Goggles  >  Last Post

Meteor 75 Frame  > Last Post

 75mm Mobula Frame ELRS Build  >   Last Post



Adventures in Hot Air & Electronic Repair  >  Last Post



                                    

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                                                                                         :     The CHALLENGE  Sub250, 30min, 10K

I like to keep in the sub 250 gram class of quads...AND...so far, all of my builds are under 250 g AUW.

At this point {2020-09-08}, my primary goal is to see what I can do in the sub 250 gram class and fly as long as possible. 
I want to see how much Fly Time I can get out of the sub 250 gram class. 

A few of my tiny whoop fleet:  TinyWhoops 001 , TinyWhoops 002 , TinyWhoops 002

My builds {in order}
 
Other builds and projects:

DIY 915  mHz Gen 3 Rx antenna 

YouTube Flight Videos:

{My very first FPV video}
GEPRC Phantom (original factory built...my second BNF/RTF...brushless motor, open prop quad) :




Phantom-i : 


Phantom-3A : 



The Katana-LR4 is my first quad that has the possibility of long range; R9MM , GPS, 450 mw VTX. 
Katana-LR4 {maiden} All tune is just as it came; I have changed NOTHING; this is just build and go:


The Katana-LR5x {maiden}...I forgot to put the "x" in the OSD Craft Name and the video filename.

I like to keep in the sub 250 gram class of quads...AND...so far, all of my builds are under 250 g AUW.

That said, I am now considering a 7 inch build. I will try to keep the weight down, but I think it will likely weight more than 250 grams AUW. First, the larger motors are HEAVY. Next, the frame will be bigger (and heavier). Finally, the batteries weigh a lot; likely over 100g for a suitable battery pack.

I am now considering how to proceed; I have some components that I can use and some that I will need to purchase. Ah yes, the frame. Well now, I am working on several options:

1) Buy a frame {but the ones that I have seen are all real heavy}
2) Fabricate my own {not only time consuming, I don't have precision tools, so it would be "rough", but workable}
3) Custom designed, but someone else cuts {currently don't have the software; also, time consuming, questionable}
4) Hybrid, buy the arms and fabricate the main frame plates {this is actually a workable solution that I am considering}
5) Add arm extensions to an existing frame base {another workable solution that I might consider}
6) See if a vendor/manufacturer will make 7 inch arms for an existing body kit {not sure yet, working on it, maybe}

Next, there is the motor/prop combination. I am considering this a "combo" deal since the prop mounting must match the prop mount on the motor (ie: T-mount vs 5mm threaded). Thing is, all of my current motors are T-Mount and I have only seen 7 inch props in the 5mm mounting pattern. On the other hand, I have something up my sleeve    
I might give it a try to see if it works....we will see {more later on this one, later} 

Then, I will be ready to go. My plan is to basically use the same electronics setup that is in the Katana-LR4 ... in my opinion the JHEMCU 30A AIO flight controller will handle what ever motors that I choose. I am leaning towards a quad that is as small and light as I can build {for a 7 inch}...will just have to see. Keep in mind, this is designed to be my easy long range cruiser (has to be since where I fly now is WAY TOO SHORT for a 7 inch quad)...so...I don't need ball busting performance     just easy cruising {maybe 20 percent throttle or less once airborne}.

Ah, the adventure begins   

Stay tuned...

My throttle position on Seven is usually between 20 and 30 percent for almost the entire flight. My yard is too small to really push it and there really is not a reason too unless if you are attempting a crazy flight. Your focus on 7" is a good one. They are way less "twitchy" than the micros, but they are also capable of some frightening acceleration. It is easy to apply more power than you intended with the larger quad.

I feel you will truly enjoy flying your 7". With smooth throttle, it will seem like you are gliding effortlessly.

Kaity, 

Good to hear from you. 

Yeah, I am looking forward to flying a 7 inch {ok, the building will be fun, too}. Right now, I am waiting on a Katana 5 inch frame to arrive so I can build a 5 inch. I want to see how that goes for me.... then on to the 7 {still some things I am working through which the 5 may resolve}.

Also, I still need to find some place to fly where I don't have to fly over residential area and that I have half a chance of getting the quad back if anything goes wrong and it ends up on the ground. So far, I have not found that place...I will keep looking. 

I started my "big girl quad" practice with a 5" and it was super fun to build as my first! There are a bazillion things to dress them up with and they are powerful enough to get super squirrelly You will love it! They are big enough to need space to fly, to be sure. After building my 6" and 7" craft (the 6" was fun before a bad crash and now it awaits a rebuild) I sort of fell away from the 5", but I still take it up once in a while.

Cannot wait for your build-log! You have selected your frame, thoughts on motors? I started on 2204's (too small) and eventually installed some 2207-2500kv motors...very fast. Eventually installed 2306's and they are powerful, but 2207's feel quicker on the high end of the throttle.

{2020-08-21}
I have just started a thread for my next build (a 5 inch): Katana-LR5x
I think that I have all of the parts so the actual build will likely begin tomorrow.

@Kaity, The 5 inch will help me finalize some thoughts on the 7 inch. I know 2203 sounds sort of small, but I think I can get a "light weight" 7 inch that these motors will pull. Keep in mind, I don't need a bullet, just something that will fly and cruise easy. You know, I really like "over propping" the motors, ha ha.   

{if I can pull 4 inch on 1103, maybe the 7 inch on 2203 isn't that much different....it will certainly be interesting}
{of course, I will adjust accordingly if things don't work out. You know me, a bit unconventional...maybe eccentric   }

(22-Aug-2020, 03:51 AM)iFly4rotors Wrote: {2020-08-21}
I have just started a thread for my next build (a 5 inch): Katana-LR5x
I think that I have all of the parts so the actual build will likely begin tomorrow.

@Kaity, The 5 inch will help me finalize some thoughts on the 7 inch. I know 2203 sounds sort of small, but I think I can get a "light weight" 7 inch that these motors will pull. Keep in mind, I don't need a bullet, just something that will fly and cruise easy. You know, I really like "over propping" the motors, ha ha.   

{if I can pull 4 inch on 1103, maybe the 7 inch on 2203 isn't that much different....it will certainly be interesting}
{of course, I will adjust accordingly if things don't work out. You know me, a bit unconventional...maybe eccentric   }

When I was awaiting arrival of my 2507's for Seven, I had a spare set of 2207's on it.  They would land HOT with any flight that was not essentially a crawl.  They spun the props and kept it airborne, but that was about as far as I would trust them.  2203 motors will be likely straining to maintain flight and you may end up having to replace them sooner than later.  I was surprised how much power the 7" props will pull.

It would seem Seven is one of the more light weight 7" (and even mini quads in general) at 470g, sans pack.  It is still pretty hefty when in the air and rapid maneuvers task the motors something solid.  Might be a fun thing to build a spreadsheet to monitor expected weight.

It will be interesting to hear your experiences if you choose the 2203 motors, but at this point I really feel that 2305's are about the smallest motor that is able to level the field for spinning 7".  The 2507's create a 5" freestyle feel when coupled with the 7".

I like your minimalist approach actually!    Your 5" will give you a better feel for your design thoughts.

(22-Aug-2020, 02:01 PM)kaitylynn Wrote: When I was awaiting arrival of my 2507's for Seven, I had a spare set of 2207's on it.  They would land HOT with any flight that was not essentially a crawl.  They spun the props and kept it airborne, but that was about as far as I would trust them.  2203 motors will be likely straining to maintain flight and you may end up having to replace them sooner than later.  I was surprised how much power the 7" props will pull.

It would seem Seven is one of the more light weight 7" (and even mini quads in general) at 470g, sans pack.  It is still pretty hefty when in the air and rapid maneuvers task the motors something solid.  Might be a fun thing to build a spreadsheet to monitor expected weight.

It will be interesting to hear your experiences if you choose the 2203 motors, but at this point I really feel that 2305's are about the smallest motor that is able to level the field for spinning 7".  The 2507's create a 5" freestyle feel when coupled with the 7".

I like your minimalist approach actually!    Your 5" will give you a better feel for your design thoughts.

Hi Kaity,

Yes, I am using the 2203's on the Katana-LR5x build. This will help me determine just what to expect from the 2203's. Although heavy motors, this build will be close to 250g AUW     with 3s 1100 mAh GNB battery. I will do my best to work for sub 250g. If I can accomplish that, then my 7 inch build will not be much heavier. Unless I find a good {light} 7 inch frame, I will likely use a set of Katana 5 inch arms and fabricate light weight frame plates that space the arms out far enough for the 7's to clear. Yeah, I have carbon fiber sheets in various thickness; just no precision tools {like a CNC milling machine}. So, I have to hand cut and drill the plates.

Even if my 7 weighs more than 250g, I am still expecting less than 300g. That's pretty light for 7, right??
Maybe the motors will work   It will be a nice experiment. 

Another thing that I am going to try is T-Mount 7 inch props. Yeah, nobody currently makes them, but.... 
I think that I can modify a set    {{Gemfan already makes 3" & 4" with 5mm hole and T-Mount adapter}} 

Yes, I have spreadsheets for everything. ALL of my flights get recorded and compared. I log the location, the date, the quad, the battery, the AUW for that particular flight configuration, Fly Time, battery voltage & Amps (both OSD and actual measured). Interesting that the voltage and Amp readings don't ever seem to be the same. The OSD always shows a lower reading than measured "at end" voltage. I can run the OSD reading down to less than 3.00 volts / cell, yet, the actual per cell reading is over 3.50 volts.    Yeah, I can't figure out how to adjust the Betaflight settings for this ((and I have watched YouTube videos all day long, but not working for me))   

More fun to come.... 

(22-Aug-2020, 03:06 PM)iFly4rotors Wrote: I can run the OSD reading down to less than 3.00 volts / cell, yet, the actual per cell reading is over 3.50 volts. 

Is there reverse polarity protection in the circuit or an FET on/off switch? If so that 0.5v may be the protection voltage drop. I see that on my robot - the robot says the battery voltage is down to my chosen 8.1v need charge level, but the battery is really at 8.6v.

(24-Aug-2020, 08:13 PM)cyclicalobsessive Wrote: Is there reverse polarity protection in the circuit or an FET on/off switch?  If so that 0.5v may be the protection voltage drop.  I see that on my robot - the robot says the battery voltage is down to my chosen 8.1v need charge level, but the battery is really at 8.6v.

I have no idea. From what I know, there is no FET on/off switch; nether hardware, nor software. What you just mentioned has never shown up on anything that I have seen. Betaflight is calibratable, however, all of the YouTube videos that I have seen are pretty complicated and involve things that I don't have or can't get a reading for. There should be some "ballpark" method to make adjustments to correct this. I have calibrated the "full" voltage and that helps. So, it is likely that it is simply Betaflight calibrations...I just don't know how and {as indicated} the YouTube videos about this are beyond the scope of what I seem to be able to accomplish. That said, I just "live" with it. In my mind, I know that the actual value is higher than that on the OSD. Surely there is some "rule-of-thumb" adjustment methodology. IF I ever find it, I WILL SHARE my findings.  This is all about Battery calibration in Betaflight. For now, it is not high on my priority list. On the other hand;...If anyone knows how to make some "ad hoc" adjustments without having empirical data values, please share. I will try it.

Also, this happens to all of my quads, but the values are not necessarily consistent, even with the same components on different quads. Again, it points to getting the setting right in the Battery Calibration in Betaflight. If you find something, let me know.

Thread Index                                                                                     The CHALLENGE  Sub250 g, 30min, 10K

Pictures of my brushed motor whoops and toothpicks: 

Pic 1     Pic 2        Pic 3     Pic 4

My brushless builds {in order} : 
 
0001  Phantom-X             Last Post       My first build, it is my experimental quad.
0002  Phantom-i              Last Post       This quad was built as a GEPRC Phantom "Clone".
0003  Phantom-3A           Last Post       Unmodified GEPRC Phantom frame with custom top plate and 3 inch props.
                                                         This one is now deceased and dismantled.
 
0004  Katana-LR4            Last Post       My first 4 inch and long range build. 
0005  Katana-LR5x           Last Post       My first 5 inch build also for long range. {I lost this one} 
0006  Katarms-LR7x         Last Post       My first 7 inch build, light weight, long range
0007  Phantom-4X           Last Post        Built on the damaged Phantom-3A frame with arm overlay extensions 
                                                          set to accept 4 inch props.

0008  BEAST                   Last Post        A 7 inch build using the iFlight BEAST 55A AIO whoop flight controller.
0009  FrankenFly-2-4       Last Post        A 2.5 inch ducted pusher on a Gecko 4" frame.
                                                          but will handle 4 inch props without ducts.  
                                                          {UPDATE: ducts have been removed and props switched to 4" }.

0010  Tiny-Black-85         Last Post        Tiny Whoop with 85mm frame and 2 inch props. My around the house flier.
0011  Quest250-LR          Last Post        Challenge with the following criteria: 
                                                          Less than 250 gram AUW, 30 minute Fly Time, 10K distance.
                                                          { including Battery }

0012  Ronin-MK1 ONE      Last Post        My first build using one of The.Ronin's frames.
0013  Unsanctioned-1      Last Post        My second 5 inch build. This one has an undisclosed prototype frame.
                                                          {I accidentily dropped this one in the top of a tree}.

0014  Rescue Quad          Last Post        Build specifically to rescue the Unsanctioned-1. The first Rescue Quad
                                                          will be named Rescue-1.

0015  Surveillance-1         Last Post        This build is for providing reconnaissance for the Rescue Quad.
0016  GT-LT6-X1              Last Post        A 6 inch (sub-250 gram?) using a custom frame designed and cut by gt40.
0017  Baby Naz X-1           Last Post        This is a 1S "Nano" freestyle quad; my first tiny "Nano" build.
0018  Pretty-1                 Last Post         Built on the Diatone Roma F1 frame for 40mm props that has been 
                                                           Custom Hydro-Dipped and donated by LemonyLeprosy.  Thank You.