Good call, iFly!!  You know I've always been meaning to just design my own micro 4 inch LR around one of the existing cam mounts out there.  

I did finish this Bobcat build and just got back from the first round of tuning.  It flies good!!  lol    But it's not done. I need to redesign the camera bracket because the cage is in view.  Good news is the way Armattan designed the elevated cage, front props are not in view despite not being a dead cat configuration.  Also since it's basically an X, no need for a custom motor mix.  Bonus.    

I went with the same Flywoo Goku F7 32-bit AIO whoop FC that I used on the Roma.  So far I am impressed with this FC.  But be warned, these tiny pads are not for the faint of soldering skills.



Yes, I know I reversed the front and back motors lol, but this is what my completed FC looked like.



And the frame all kitted with the custom Ronin-whoop-alizer(TM). 



LED harness ... cos, LEDs.





Those are the Airblade UAV Superman 1404s.  Very light, well built, efficient motors.  I had them on an Airblade UAV Transformer Mini which I had sold.



Believe it or not, there is order in this chaos.  Sorta.



Diggin' how my landing skids turned out.



I've got the Caddx Loris 4K in this pic but that too (like the Runcam 4K whoop) somehow is conflicting with the RapidFire signal lock.  So I ended up using a Caddx Baby Turtle whoop (1080P 60FPS) which does not conflict. And its got a white cover.





Using the same Immortal T antenna mount concept that I used on the Roma.  But in this case since there are no standoffs on the Bobcat, I'm using a stack spacer.





I really like the Matek VTX Mini for these micro LR's.  For starters Matek build quality is  proven but this not only has 800mw output, it has pit stop via pinio so I can turn the VTX off completely with a switch.  Comes in super handy when waiting for sat locks.





And my 3d printing design pièce de résistance ...





I'm coming in slightly lighter than my initial calc of 248g but still a bit heavy at 246g auw with a GNB 1100mAh 3S (181g raw).  



Money shots incoming ...  

Hi Ronin,

That is one SWEET  quad       GREAT JOB    

The camera mounts appear to be 1mm carbon fiber. If you have 1mm carbon fiber sheets, you could fabricate mounts that move the camera just a little bit further forward.

Thank you, sir.

(07-Feb-2021, 11:51 PM)iFly4rotors Wrote: The camera mounts appear to be 1mm carbon fiber. If you have 1mm carbon fiber sheets, you could fabricate mounts that move the camera just a little bit further forward.

Yea ... or ...

Proper.    





And def no more cage in view.     Seems sturdy enough even in PLA especially since this is not going to be a freestyle ripper.  I'll finish tuning it with this until CNC Madness can cut me some cf ones.

Evidently, Armattan is making updated plates to accommodate analog cams.  But personally, I've always found Armattan frames to seem to be made for mini sized cams.  Wish they'd change that.

Hi Ronin,

Another Good Job 

Kinda stoked with how this turned out.  It took a lot of figuring out how to stick round pegs into square holes compared to other frames, but I was very particular with how I envisioned this build.  And the custom 3d printed camera plate appears to be holding up nicely although CNC Madness has some plates being made for me right now so that will only improve. 

Anyway here are my final PIDs and filtering.  I thought it would be similar to the Roma but I had to push it a little bit more for this one.  Motors are just slightly warm to the touch.





I did crank down the throttle threshold for TPA from 1350 to 1250 since I was seeing some slight crack jitters on throttle. 

But I couldn't resist making a post tune pretty little ditty ...  

Got my custom cam plates from CNC Madness. Here's a comparison of Armattan's and mine ...



Not the cleanest design but def fits great and no more props in view ...



Also swapped out the shorter Lumenier AXII ...



For a higher clearance VAS Minion ...



Can't wait to get this one out for a proper maiden.

Alright guys, I got a chance to really fly this thing and ... eh  

I think it is just too heavy to be a proper micro long range - in my opinion.  I don't know that you need to go 4S on a micro long range and I've had really impressive results with the GNB 3S 1100mah super lightweight lipos.  This thing just drinks up voltage like crazy.  In fairness, the winds were not ideal this morning but I could barely get out to a reasonable distance before the voltage sag just sets off the alarms ...



I actually got rid of 4 M3 screws of the 10 that secured both arms.  I have never actually removed hardware on a build out in the field before just to see if I can scrap some weight. 

Still, I'll give this guy another chance but in all likelihood, I may migrate the innards to a Tomoquad Katana frame I still have lying around.  It's just too bad because it's such a nice looking frame.  But what is the point of that if it can't fly?

As an aside, what's up with my amp draw?  I notice looking back at my micro builds using the Holybro Kakute F7 Mini stack, the amp draw barely ever went much past 10amps.  With the Flywoo Goku F7 whoop FC I am using on this and my Diatone Roma micro LR builds, I'm seeing amp draws well past 20!  Which one is broke or are these things really that much heavier?  I'd using the Kakute stacks on the Airblade Transformer Mini and Tomoquads Katana which are upwards of 20g lighter than the Bobcat and Roma frames.

That’s odd about the frame weight. Do you know what the camera cage and aluminum standoffs weigh? Technically they are separate pieces and not the “frame”? I almost got one but the mounting options held me back. It’s a really cool looking frame as most of Armattan quads are!

Lol I'd say anything that is required to hold the camera counts as part of the frame. I too am disapointed this is a real miss for Armattan.

I'm guessing they will be pivoting and say this is more of a lightweight freestyle / cruiser ... whatever that means lol. I say it was just a rushed frame to get in on the micro LR bandwagon. Hopefully they will be putting more thought into their next frame.

In reality everything pertaining to the frame ...IS...the frame....All plates, cam mounts, standoffs, bolts, even TPU parts that are sold with and/or assembled as part of the frame. Consider that everything you get in a frame kit, plus anything you have to add is still part of the frame...and weight. It all adds up somewhere.

You know, everything counts. From my perspective a quad has 4 logical systems or packages; consider the following:

1) Electronics...everything including the FC and ESCs included in FC or stack,  GPS, any extra BECs, wiring, connectors, capacitors, regulators, etc.
2) Frame... everything and anything that holds it all together... frame plates, arms, bolts, standoffs, cam braces or mounts, GPS mount, skids, landing gear, canopies, literally ANYTHING  that collects and holds all the other systems and packages...yeah, even a GoPro mount is part of the frame. 
3) Drive Train... motors, props, mount bolts and prop bolts or nuts {I consider ESCs to be part of the electronics package}. 
4) Power package...Battery, solar power, even a huge capacitor...what ever is used as a power source and supplies electricity.

Everything fits into one of those 4 categories. If you add a servo, it would go in the electronics package. Anything that is structural, attaches to the frame, is a mount for anything, etc. all count as part of the frame. The frame and electronics package are the two systems with the most flexibility for adding or subtracting pieces and parts. 

Perhaps their is one other package and that would be Payload which would be anything carried, but not technically part of the quad and not necessary to fly. Also, the payload might be changed from time to time.

Just my thoughts...

I think I get what you are saying, iFlight. In my view, if you sell a frame, it's based on an overarching "thesis" (for lack of a better term) whether that be durable freestyle ripper, nimble racer, ultralightweight long range. So while the frame itself is without all the components you identified, it ought to remain true to its thesis. You wouldn't design a freestyle ripper with super thin arms. Nor a ultralightweight LT with unnecessarily thick CF plates. Now what the builder does beyond that is up to them and how true they remain to this thesis. But the frame is the foundation and if that is bad, everything built on it is bad.

While perhaps not as obvious, the Bobcat frame completely lost sight of its thesis.

With that said, I do not plan to sell this frame currently. I do think it still has a purpose as a lightweight (hopefully sub-250) freestyle ripper. Armattan may pivot and now say that's exactly what it is for - but the motor mounts which provide no protection for anything bigger than a 16XX motor would suggest otherwise. Thanks for playing LOLL. I have the same plans for the Diatone Roma.

This has also been an epiphany of sorts for me. Seeing how badly this thing performed made me long for how well the Dave_C frame flew in terms of pure long range distance. So I'm migrating everything from this build and the Diatone Roma build back to the Katana and Transformer Mini frames which truly are proper micro LR foundations. I'm also excited to see the performance since my prior Katana and Transformer Mini builds made use of a heavier Kakute F7 Mini stack and Caddx Tarsier whereas now I intend to use a Flywoo Goku F7 AIO whoop FC and Whoop style split HD cams (Runcam 3 Whoop and Caddx Turtle).

Hi Ronin,

Yes, the frame or kit, everything that you get from the manufacturer {frame plates, arms, standoffs, screws, camera holder, and what ever TPU parts} is designed and sold for a specific purpose or thesis. Yes, you would expect that the manufacturer would keep true to that thesis when marketing the product. 

From what I can tell, the Armattan frames are solid, sturdy, heavy, stylish, and costly...but Not light weight.  Yeah, they look cool and all of them seem to have a very good looking "proper" camera cage. Perhaps the new light weight movement has thrown them off a bit. Maybe their next lightweight offering will really be light weight.

I really like the Tomoquads Katana series frames. Both of my Katana builds handled great in the air; I still like to fly the one that I have left, the 4 inch Katana-LR4 {recall that I lost the Katana-LR5x}.  I have an extra 5 inch Katana frame so I can build a twin of the one that I lost.

I have 2 Airblade Transformer Mini LR frames, but have not yet built anything with them. These are some of the lightest 4 inch frames of, what I call, the fuselage design. 

Anyway, sorry this build didn't work out as expected. Oh well, transplant the electronics, drive train, and go again.    
I look forward to the next one. 

It is good to here that  you like the Flywoo F7 AIO. I think that I will use a Flywoo AIO in the Quest250-LR build.

(18-Feb-2021, 11:06 PM)the.ronin Wrote: Lol I'd say anything that is required to hold the camera counts as part of the frame. I too am disapointed this is a real miss for Armattan.

I'm guessing they will be pivoting and say this is more of a lightweight freestyle / cruiser ... whatever that means lol. I say it was just a rushed frame to get in on the micro LR bandwagon. Hopefully they will be putting more thought into their next frame.

https://armattanquads.com/bobcat/
i thought it wasnt described as lr, but than;
going to the website, they does describe it as lr platform, as the best xD
"The Armattan Bobcat is the best, most refined 4 inch long range frame on the market today"
they spoke about endurance, this sounds like another description than not for bando or freestyle, wont mean able to do longrange.
did they change their description until my last visit?

i guess its a freestyle frame, or for cinematic. a deceased gopro would match nice.
armattan told it s not made for freestyle or bando, but in truth armattan has just their own view about durability, durability on an other level. durability able to provide lifetime warranty. they excluded the arms from the lifetime warranty.

a longrange frame would more need a warranty about a missed quad, failsafes faraway, not a lifetime warranty for the frame. i guess this doesnt make sense about the need for longrange???
the build focus is different in different disciplines, lifetime warranty makes sense for freestyle frames. not for racing, the frameweight has improtance and durability isnt the only focus, the arent able to provide lifetime warrant on a lightweight racing frame, it needs to be lightweight, it will brake, again and again :-) lightweight longrange does have even less importance for durability.

https://rekonfpv.com/products/copy-of-re...og-version failsave warfanty for a lr build

probably it would make sense for armattan to do a true lightweight lr frame without lifetime warranty, branded as sabotagerc frame.

Hi Bat,

I went out to the https://armattanquads.com/bobcat/  website and am intrigued that they sell the arms for $1.75 each. Now, we are talking. I like that the motor mounting uses slots instead of round bolt holes. I think that I might order some of those arms. 

Thanks