So I recently upgraded my trusty Pro58 vrx to Speedybee and I noticed my favourite shop has just got TBS Fusion and Rapidfire modules at the same price as Speedybee (which I can swap for free as I only had it for a couple of days).

I watched all the comparisons I could find and everyone concludes "Speedybee is way cheaper and it's almost the same so it's a clear choice", but what if all 3 cost the same? 

Which one would you choose and why? All 3 work n the same principle, but are they exactly the same? Do they all have the same latency? There is extra processing involved and extra processing equals extra latency, so which one has the least? 

Which one has the best sensitivity, the best radio component quality?

I was just watching the comparison videos snow posted, and have to say the SB looks awfully impressive. Head to head with Rapidfire, and even in one section you can see Rapidfie starting to roll, but SB's image stayed locked!! But in terms of hardware reliability/reputation, I would think that IRC has the better track record, at least that's my impression. TBS is or was good too, but I believe they've slipped over the years (again just my impression). Speedybee or Runcam certainly does a very good job, but has had a lot more design/manufacturing issues.

When you say the shop offers you all three at the same price, I am guessing they are either overcharging you for the Speedybee (which retails for $89), or giving you a great deal on the Rapidfire. Simply that Rapidfire has been and still is the holy grail for analog receivers and the one everyone compares against should tell you something.
No idea on latency, I would suspect they are all quite similar and unless you are a racer probably makes little difference.

(15-Feb-2024, 01:02 AM)mstc Wrote: I was just watching the comparison videos snow posted, and have to say the SB looks awfully impressive. Head to head with Rapidfire, and even in one section you can see Rapidfie starting to roll, but SB's image stayed locked!! But in terms of hardware reliability/reputation, I would think that IRC has the better track record, at least that's my impression. TBS is or was good too, but I believe they've slipped over the years (again just my impression). Speedybee or Runcam certainly does a very good job, but has had a lot more design/manufacturing issues.

When you say the shop offers you all three at the same price, I am guessing they are either overcharging you for the Speedybee (which retails for $89), or giving you a great deal on the Rapidfire. Simply that Rapidfire has been and still is the holy grail for analog receivers and the one everyone compares against should tell you something.
No idea on latency, I would suspect they are all quite similar and unless you are a racer probably makes little difference.

I just went to check it again and Rapidfire is not in stock now, so they probably had just one at that price and wanted to get rid of it. 

I'm in the EU, our shops and taxes are famous for taking the piss. However sometimes there are good deals to be had. For example the Speedybee price converted to USD is $130. That's about 10% profit over the base price + vat for the shop. I can live with that. 

They had the Rapidfire module discounted at $145(normal price is $230 - these prices include all taxes and you get free shipping at this spend BTW). They still have TBS Fusion for $140, but it's clear to me the main competition is between the Speedybee and Rapidfire. Now that the Rapidfire is gone I'm going to stay with the Speedybee.

If you've already shelled out the cash ,go with whichever you want.

Any extra money you intend to spend, maybe use it on upgrading the VTX side of things. Going up to a more advanced VTX to use with the VRX, might improve things more.

A year ago I wanted to get Rapidfire, but realised a PRO58 and a Foxeer Reaper Nano or TBS Unify Pro would probably get me the same sort of reception quality for a chunk less money. From doing research it appears the version of PRO58 is very important, you basically want the one that you can upgrade the firmware on. Thankfully a number of shops on Ali still sell that version.

For you, maybe try combining your new SpeedyBee VRX with a Foxeer Reaper Nano? You get the advanced signal transmission of the Reaper Nano and the advanced receiver of the SpeedyBee. Or if not try one of the TBS boards. But I think if you go with a big VTX like a 600-1000mW level, you shouldn't have that many issues out to a km. The Reaper should get you out to half that I would have thought.

Gal Kremer taking a Reaper Nano 2km out on 350mW. But bear in mind that is an open sky test, so not a bando. But none the less impressive.

(15-Feb-2024, 03:45 AM)Pathfinder075 Wrote:  From doing research it appears the version of PRO58 is very important, you basically want the one that you can upgrade the firmware on.  Thankfully a number of shops on Ali still sell that version.

What version plz?

The original link I had on Ali has disappeared. I never bought one at the time, because I didn't have any goggles for it. Of course I now do, but it is what it is. I was thinking about it last week. I will probably just grab the current version.

This was the article I looked at that showed it.

https://blog.unmanned.tech/how-to-flash-...er-module/

So had a quick look and this might be the one. It's the one that has the link to the achilles firmware.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000679944164.html

If you were considering getting one I would definitely email them first to confirm these are the old version that is upgradable.

(15-Feb-2024, 03:45 AM)Pathfinder075 Wrote: If you've already shelled out the cash ,go with whichever you want.

Yes, I've already got the Speedybee, I just noticed those deals with Rapidfire and Fusion 2 days later, so I started considering if another one wouldn't be better, but in the meantime they sold the only unit I might have chosen instead of the Speedybee, so I'm keeping it :-)

(15-Feb-2024, 03:45 AM)Pathfinder075 Wrote: Any extra money you intend to spend, maybe use it on upgrading the VTX side of things.  Going up to a more advanced VTX to use with the VRX, might improve things more.

I'm already using Unify VTXes in both of my "big" quads (5in). One is TBS Unify Pro32 Nano (in my racing style frame) and TBS Unify Pro32 1W in my freestyle frame. My previous VRX was Pro58 flashed with Pirx firmware. So is this how you determine if the Pro58 version you get is a "good one"(by it being able to flash new firmware)? I though all of them can be flashed and the difference was in RF components, but I may be wrong on this.

(15-Feb-2024, 03:45 AM)Pathfinder075 Wrote: A year ago I wanted to get Rapidfire, but realised a PRO58 and a Foxeer Reaper Nano or TBS Unify Pro would probably get me the same sort of reception quality for a chunk less money.  From doing research it appears the version of PRO58 is very important, you basically want the one that you can upgrade the firmware on.  Thankfully a number of shops on Ali still sell that version.

For you, maybe try combining your new SpeedyBee VRX with a Foxeer Reaper Nano?  You get the advanced signal transmission of the Reaper Nano and the advanced receiver of the SpeedyBee. Or if not try one of the TBS boards.  But I think if you go with a big VTX like a 600-1000mW level, you shouldn't have that many issues out to a km.  The Reaper should get you out to half that I would have thought.

Gal Kremer taking a Reaper Nano 2km out on 350mW.  But bear in mind that is an open sky test, so not a bando.  But none the less impressive.

With regards to distance I was pretty happy with Pro58 and even my previous cheapo VTXses TS5823 Pro. Heck, i flew 3km even before I bough the Pro58 on the crappy "just antenna diversity" VRX built into my box goggles (using a DIY helical antenna). But the reason I bough the SpeedyBee VRX is the same I got the Pro58 in the first place. To improve the signal when its going through lots of obstacles(trees, metal buildings), with lots of multipathing etc. My box goggles would just flicker a lot. Pro58 was a huge improvement. I can already see (just flying in the house with a tinywhoop) that the SpeedyBee will be a great improvement still.

Regarding TBS VTXses in comparison with the super-cheap TS5823 Pro, they are nice, because (some) have USB connectivity for firmware updates, the build quality is better, better thermal management and impact resistance, and you get a tiny antenna connector.

But comparing for example the TBS Unify Pro32 Nano and TS5823, the TS comes ahead on things like shielding (I had to shield my TBS nano A LOT) and also with a good camera TS5823 will give you slightly better resolution (within the constraints of the analog format, with a VRX that can take advantage of it). 

How come, you may ask? Well TS5823 has a slightly higher bandwidth (I measured it myself). Normal analog signal has to fit into about 6MHZ channel and all the high quality VTXses do use really good filters to ensure it does(so there is no interference on adjacent channels) which limits your horizontal line resolution. What does this mean, don't we all know all analog is 720 x 480 NTSC and 720 x 576 for PAL ? No, the number of horizontal lines(vertical resolution) is indeed that, but the horizontal resolution depends on the bandwidth of the signal. 720p is just an approximation and there are limitations within it. For example it is impossible for adjacent pixels to be completely black and completely white, there has to be a degree of gradual change. How gradual/abrupt is defined by the bandwidth. Then there is the signal about the color, that is even worse resolution by a lot. Consider luma(brightness) gets 4.2MHZ of the total bandwidth and color gets 2MHZ (there is a little overlap). So it is obvious a VTX that sends 1MHZ wider signal will have better "crispness" of the image. Of course the goggles and the VRX have to be able to handle it. There is little difference if the VRX cuts it back to 6MHz on the receive end.

So am I advising people to buy TS5823? No way, TBS VTXses are better for many reasons, but if you already have a TS5823 Pro, perhaps don't upgrade and expect a better picture if your picture already looks good for analog standards.

(15-Feb-2024, 09:08 AM)Luk5569 Wrote: My previous VRX was Pro58 flashed with Pirx firmware. So is this how you determine if the Pro58 version you get is a "good one"(by it being able to flash new firmware)? I though all of them can be flashed and the difference was in RF components, but I may be wrong on this.

The new ones use a different chipset and can't be flashed to Pirx or Achilles, AFAIK. It's mentioned in a thread somewhere on here.

(15-Feb-2024, 09:08 AM)Luk5569 Wrote: Regarding TBS VTXses in comparison with the super-cheap TS5823 Pro, they are nice, because (some) have USB connectivity for firmware updates, the build quality is better, better thermal management and impact resistance, and you get a tiny antenna connector.

But comparing for example the TBS Unify Pro32 Nano and TS5823, the TS comes ahead on things like shielding (I had to shield my TBS nano A LOT) and also with a good camera TS5823 will give you slightly better resolution (within the constraints of the analog format, with a VRX that can take advantage of it). 

How come, you may ask? Well TS5823 has a slightly higher bandwidth (I measured it myself). Normal analog signal has to fit into about 6MHZ channel and all the high quality VTXses do use really good filters to ensure it does(so there is no interference on adjacent channels) which limits your horizontal line resolution. What does this mean, don't we all know all analog is 720 x 480 NTSC and 720 x 576 for PAL ? No, the number of horizontal lines(vertical resolution) is indeed that, but the horizontal resolution depends on the bandwidth of the signal. 720p is just an approximation and there are limitations within it. For example it is impossible for adjacent pixels to be completely black and completely white, there has to be a degree of gradual change. How gradual/abrupt is defined by the bandwidth. Then there is the signal about the color, that is even worse resolution by a lot. Consider luma(brightness) gets 4.2MHZ of the total bandwidth and color gets 2MHZ (there is a little overlap). So it is obvious a VTX that sends 1MHZ wider signal will have better "crispness" of the image. Of course the goggles and the VRX have to be able to handle it. There is little difference if the VRX cuts it back to 6MHz on the receive end.

So am I advising people to buy TS5823? No way, TBS VTXses are better for many reasons, but if you already have a TS5823 Pro, perhaps don't upgrade and expect a better picture if your picture already looks good for analog standards.

So the TS5823 seems to be a generic code for a VTX that at least half a dozen different manufacturers make. I tend to use mostly Happymodel and BetaFPV VTX at the minute, plus I got some rebranded 600mW AKK VTX the other week and some other rebranded AKK 1200mW which is apparently very similar to a TBS VTX. I'm hoping a Pro58 and 1200mW VTX is more than enough for what I need (and suspect it will).

(15-Feb-2024, 10:24 AM)Pathfinder075 Wrote: The new ones use a different chipset and can't be flashed to Pirx or Achilles, AFAIK.  It's mentioned in a thread somewhere on here.

On the Achilles website there is now a green banner at the top stating that Eachine have apparently reverted back to using the "X" version of the STM32 MCU on the Pro58 VRX module which is the one that supports flashing of the Achilles firmware to it. Of course you can still just use the Pro58 with the bog standard Eachine developed firmware that it comes shipped with, but using the Achilles firmware is a better option if you're able to do so.



Just make sure you purchase a new-stock Pro58 module and not one that has been siting around in a vendor stock cupboard for a while with the unsupported "2" version of the STM32 MCU. The thread you are referring to is linked to below...

https://intofpv.com/t-new-achilles-plus-...date-v2-10

Obviously the OP has now already purchased the SpeedyBee VRX module, but as for which module is the best one to get, I think it is now hard to recommend the Immersion RapidFIRE or TBS Fusion modules over the SpeedyBee module based on price and performance. The SpeedyBee VRX seems to be every bit as good as the other two for far less money if you can only get them at full retail price. There's a comparison video between the SpeedyBee and RapidFIRE modules in the post linked to below...

https://intofpv.com/t-speedybee-5-8ghz-f...#pid213952

Since Sander Sassen (one of the ImmersionRC co-founders) departed leaving just Tony Cake to run the IRC show where he then merged / joined forces with Orqa, they seem to have pretty much abandoned any further development of RapidFIRE with the last official firmware update for it (1.3.2) being released back in 2020. At least TBS do still seem to be continuing to release firmware update enhancements for their module with the last update being a week ago (see another post HERE. That said, unless you are invested in the TBS eco system having Crossfire/Tracer receivers and Unify VTX's where the Fusion module offers some cool integration features using its built-in Wi-Fi module and the TBS cloud, there probably isn't really much advantage of the Fusion module over the others. If I was in the market for an "image fusion" module today, I would probably buy the SpeedyBee VRX. The only unknown right now with it being a new product is hardware quality/reliability.

Technically I could probably bodge a SpeedyBee VRX on to the EV800D goggles I picked up last year. I'm guessing the pinout is the same as every other analogue VRX. But I'm unsure of spending that much money for the real worldly gain. Is it cost effective, when you could throw 1.6W VTX on and just pump more juice out to get around the problem. I can live with a total cost of around £80 (goggles cost me £45, Pro58 £20ish from Ali, a patch antenna, maybe £80)

I've seen people flying complex (concrete/steel/brick) bandos over here with only an 800mW VTX and not suffering massively from drop outs or bad signal. Maybe having diversity gives you an extra 5-10% better signal, but if you get 5% from a £16 part and 10% from a close to £90 part, which one makes more sense? I am probably going the Pro58 route and trying these UMT Chaos VTX (that are rebranded AKK VTX). I have a few different ones and the big one (which I think is crazily way to powerful) should hopefully negate a lot of the issues, by knocking everyone else out of the air.

But swings and roundabouts.

If you're planning on flying solid structure bandos then you want to use the least amount of VTX power you can get away with. The more power the VTX blasts out, the more multi-pathing it creates which can completely trash the image and is detrimental to what you are trying to achieve. The "image fusion" VRX modules tend to deal with multi-path environments better than the standard diversity VRX modules, but it's also important to use identical antennas on both of the antenna inputs to get the best results.

Thanks for that explanation.

I already have one (Pro58) and it is updatable, so I was thinking about which firmware to use (Wpro58 Firmware or Pirx Firmware)?

OBS: I dont want to pay extra for Achilles 

Wpro58 is the only one available. The Pirx website has gone, so unless someone has a copy of the firmware you are probably SOL. I found the new site for Pirx.

https://pirxfpv.com/

For me eventually, I will probably try Achilles, but I don't mind paying for it. But at the basic level, the UMT blog post says Wpro58 is pretty much the same. The difference between the two is probably the tweaks like the mode that scans slightly off the frequency to see if it can get a better signal by doing that (probably for use with crappy VTX that have frequency drift).

I am new here. I usually hang out at RCG for a long time. I have been flying for over 50 years and even dabbled in FPV now and then but could never get used to it. Recently I decided to bite the bullet and really get serious about FPV. So I dedicated a budget and started collecting equipment and training myself to fly looking through the goggles.

I just posted my experience on the Skyzone Steadyview VRX module and how it didn't work with Steadyview. 

I saw this thread and wanted to share my limited experience regarding two of the mentioned VRX.

I was having issues with flying analog in my backyard because I have a metal chain link fence all the way around the yard. In certain places I get a lot of multi pathing. My video image was actually better with the Fat Shark Scout box goggles compare to the Steadyview modules in two of my Skyzone goggles (04O Pro and 04X Pro). They both exhibit rolling and tearing at certain spot of the backyard and that can get unnerving. 

So I started looking for alternatives. RapidFire was hailed to be the best but they were no where in stock. So I bought the SpeedyBee. I emailed Speedybee and asked if the module will fit in the Skyzone goggles but they said no. However I did stumble on an adapter from Skyzone that was made for the "Fat Shark" compatible modules. So I took a chance and bought that.

Yes the adapter made the SpeedyBee VRX fit on the Skyzone goggles. However it is a bit clunky. I have to use AV input and connect the power supply to a Y connect. However upon testing the image quality was so good I can actually tolerate the inconvenience of have the power cable stretching across my face. The rolling and tearing are now gone. I still get a little bit of static lines at certain area in the back yard but perfectly easy to fly through. Even my Walksnail setup has some interference issue from the metal fence.

Then one day the RapidFire module came back in stock at Race Day Quads and I immediately bought one. The good thing about the Rapidfire for me is that the module is narrow enough to fit into the Skyzone goggles VRX bay. I tried printing my own custom cover but I have not played with my 3D printers for many years and it will take a few tries just to get some good quality prints. So I just ordered some covers. They fit nicely. 

I have only tested the Rapidfire briefly and the image quality is pretty much the same as the Speedybee. No rolling and tearing and only a bit of static lines here and there.

So for flying in my backyard with multipathing issues both the Speedybee and the Rapidfire work very well with their imaging merging technology. The Skyzone Steadyview simply did not work. Yes I can fly the Steadyview with just normal RF signal and diversity.

That said I like to qualify the above statements by saying I have not tested any of these systems for range and penetration. I fly my FPV in my backyard only and fly close to the ground and no more than 125 yards away. 

I know this post has way more information that is not relevant to the title of this thread. My apologies.