Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 yesss..much better!! motors.are cool not even warm! I will do your tweaks on monday and report back one thing is that I never seen the bird so stable not even with the stock fc, then when I installed bf 3.5 things got worse there is something "magical" about bf 4.1.1 that even on a very noisy frame with crappy motors is able to filter all that crap and do a decent performance. the bf team works hard on the filter algorithms so I think this is the best version ever as a side note , there are people who hate bf 4.0 and bf 4.1 ,cause they never make it to fly locked in as bf 3.3 or 3.4 or maybe they do not take the time to tune it BF 4.1.1 is a different beast but you was able to tame it with your BB logs  I only know that i know nothing ![[-]](https://intofpv.com/images/collapse.png) • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 (29-Nov-2019, 02:45 AM)rolo95 Wrote: yesss..much better!!
motors.are cool
not even warm!
I will do your tweaks on monday
and report back
one thing is that I never seen the bird so stable not even with the stock fc, then when I installed bf 3.5
things got worse
there is something "magical" about bf 4.1.1
that even on a very noisy frame with crappy motors
is able to filter all that crap and do a decent performance.
the bf team works hard on the filter algorithms
so I think this is the best version ever
as a side note , there are people who hate bf 4.0 and bf 4.1 ,cause they never make it to fly locked in as bf 3.3 or 3.4
or maybe they do not take the time to tune it
BF 4.1.1 is a different beast
but you was able to tame it with your BB logs I've only had experience with betaflight 4.xx but yeah JB did an episode where he talks about how you can't really just do stock PIDs with 4.xx like before. Also I think we can get better tune now as well... Send a video of it flying NOW. ;> This is where we could start getting into the weeds of tuning where we can get it to fly the way you want! Als0o I saw you turned down the rates.... you didn't touch the YAW rates though... I suggest you do that.... conventionally people use about 100 DPS less than roll and pitch with yaw... I do almost 200 less.... 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 29-Nov-2019, 05:54 AM (This post was last modified: 29-Nov-2019, 05:56 AM by rolo95.) I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 (29-Nov-2019, 05:54 AM)rolo95 Wrote: I gone to the office to UL your clip 
Download link
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/acef9a2668057d59f2716549ae23a36320191129045231/a41f8ff631b6b2ea01a9785a8dad413820191129045231/9da8cb Nice It's too bad you don't have a bunch of different propellers.... It'd be interesting to see what happens with smaller three blade, or same size three blade, or larger even.... Do you know how large those props are? They look big... That looks flyable now though so that's good. I know there are other people looking at this thread as well... Can anyone explain why removing the RPM filter helped so dramatically? Is it simply because an F3 board can't handle the process correctly? What specifically though....!? 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 29-Nov-2019, 01:32 PM (This post was last modified: 29-Nov-2019, 01:35 PM by rolo95.) those are 7x3.5 hq. you can't fit larger , but 6" and 5" yess.. I have some other sizes bi blades and triblades I gather for this project that was stalled for a year,I was planning to experiment what blade gave me the most fly time.
that was my origanal goal but the horrible oscilations, prevented me, I think we need to complete optimize this tuning, then we move to other propellers , and also 3s battery even 4 s, but I don't have 4s, only a couple of 3s,I think I can play with the pids and do trial and error tuning,bb logs must be analyzed by you, I do not have the skills to tune BB, if you still want to keep going on this crazy franken bugs3 tuning project I'm all IN!!! thanks for all your help.
Rolo I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 (29-Nov-2019, 01:32 PM)rolo95 Wrote: those are 7x3.5 hq. you can't fit larger , but 6" and 5" yess.. I have some other sizes bi blades and triblades I gather for this project that was stalled for a year,I was planning to experiment what blade gave me the most fly time.
that was my origanal goal but the horrible oscilations, prevented me, I think we need to complete optimize this tuning, then we move to other propellers , and also 3s battery even 4 s, but I don't have 4s, only a couple of 3s,I think I can play with the pids and do trial and error tuning,bb logs must be analyzed by you, I do not have the skills to tune BB, if you still want to keep going on this crazy franken bugs3 tuning project I'm all IN!!! thanks for all your help.
Rolo I will continue that's fine this has been pretty fun, and a hell of a learning experience..... The thing about changing propellers after tuning is that you will tune for those porpellers then have to change everything up. I think it'd be better if you tried a 6 inch and a 5 inch propeller as it is now and see which one feels better to fly... go outside and fly it around and see which sized prop feels the best... THEN tune from there. When you make the prop smaller the motors should want to spin faster so make sure whenever you're doing changes you check the motors to see if they're getting hot... it would suck if we made a change and then burned a motor after all this  I'm super curious to see if the drone flies better with a 6 or 5 inch prop..... It might fly worse, in which case just tick to the ones you're using... I suspect it might fly better though... Like I said i'm super curious to see what happens. If the propellers you have on it now work good then there is no need to change them. But 7 inch props are gonna make the feel of flying acro.... well, heavy I guess.... I never flew 7 inch props though so I'm just making the best guess i can without experiencing it. So if you DO want to try different props then do that first before we start trying to get a locked in perfect tune that is gonna prevent bounce back and the like. And yeah I haven't been in this hobby for too long, but the tuning side of this hobby immediately attracted me and I spent A LOT of time studying tuning and how PIDs work and how filters work etc.... I'm not an EE but I can still see what's going on in the black box log and I think I've done pretty good job tuning my own quads so.... BTW go check out my youtube channel you can see my flying with my tune on my 3 inch.... I think my 3 inch flies better than most of the 3 inch drones I've seen videos of.... It might just be because most people don't bother tuning because it takes such a long time and it's such a tedious thing. but the drone in my videos is tuned 100% through the black box logs..... I tune line of sight..... I just do a hover... punch out flip roll yaw then tune... repeat until I get an outcome on the blackbox I'm happy with. A lot of people tune through what they see in the goggles but I think that method has huge limitations. Anyway here's a link of a video in which I have a pretty decent tune, especially considering they're not new or undamaged propellers..... It's ridiculous how many propellers I go through xD 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 29-Nov-2019, 09:59 PM (This post was last modified: 29-Nov-2019, 10:07 PM by rolo95.) Thanks Amigo WOW !!!!! your posted flight video is SO LOCKED IN!!! you are flying on rails!!!  looks like a PTZ camera lol !!! LOVE IT !!!! Later on we will tune the LDARC 200GT to fly like that !!  btw, i have like a year strugling to learn to fly then to DIY franken drones LOL i have Tyro129 that i havent built yet cause i used the ESC from it for the FrankenBugs i will get another ESC for the tyro129, that use 7" triprops and have 2507 1800Kv motors Tyro129build is on pause till i feel satisfied with the franken bugs project BTW if you really want to DIG in to the BB tuning these guy UAVTech is one of the experts in the field, even Joshua Bardwell mentioned that he learn from him and mention him on his videos as a resource of tuning knowledge there is a lot on his channel but here is some of the most relevant in this case check this out I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 29-Nov-2019, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 29-Nov-2019, 10:49 PM by bLoWsMokE.) (29-Nov-2019, 09:59 PM)rolo95 Wrote: Thanks Amigo
WOW !!!!! your posted flight video is SO LOCKED IN!!! you are flying on rails!!!
looks like a PTZ camera lol !!!
LOVE IT !!!!
Later on we will tune the LDARC 200GT to fly like that !!
btw, i have like a year strugling to learn to fly then to DIY franken drones LOL
i have Tyro129 that i havent built yet cause i used the ESC from it for the FrankenBugs
i will get another ESC for the tyro129, that use 7" triprops and have 2507 1800Kv motors
Tyro129build is on pause till i feel satisfied with the franken bugs project
BTW if you really want to DIG in to the BB tuning
these guy UAVTech is one of the experts in the field, even Joshua Bardwell mentioned that he learn from him
and mention him on his videos as a resource of tuning knowledge
there is a lot on his channel but here is some of the most relevant in this case Yes I've had long conversations with UAVtech about PID tuning actually. And thanks for the compliments. but the flying isn't as good/locked in as i want it to be TBH (although I am most proud of that particular flight)... Most of it is pilot though.... it's like 70% pilot 30% tune... cuz if you look at my previous videos the tune is just as good but my piloting isn't  T Those videos is my "Journey to get gud" lol I fly packs that I don't post online obviously...... but that first video is literally the start of my drone flying experience. It says in the description I think I put how many packs I had flown before that.... I think that particular first video was my 6th pack in FPV. I had flown line of sight for 2 months when I finally got my goggles, then I've been trying to log my progress! BTW is my go-to video for PID tuning.... Apparently these guys aren't so popular for w.e reason.... but basically this video is my go-to if I ever forget anything or want a refresher and it's the video that gave me that 'light bulb' moment when it comes to tuning. It's the video that made it all 'click'. The vibe of the video is a little ego driven though xD Especially form JB... that's my opinion on it though IDK. 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 30-Nov-2019, 01:47 AM (This post was last modified: 30-Nov-2019, 01:54 AM by rolo95.) (29-Nov-2019, 10:45 PM)bLoWsMokE Wrote: Yes I've had long conversations with UAVtech about PID tuning actually. Take a look at one of the latest videos he tune a whoop but he states that principles he shows can be used in any quadcopter it is a very nice 4 step method to tune a quad he do so,e CLI commands to isolate P , I and D before anything you need to find the P/D Ratio for the quad you are working on method is here http://tiny.cc/uavtech scroll all the way to the bottom and look for a PDF file called uavtech pid tuning principles all is there I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 30-Nov-2019, 02:56 AM (This post was last modified: 30-Nov-2019, 02:58 AM by bLoWsMokE.) (30-Nov-2019, 01:47 AM)rolo95 Wrote: Take a look at one of the latest videos
he tune a whoop but he states that principles he shows can be used in any quadcopter
it is a very nice 4 step method to tune a quad
he do so,e CLI commands to isolate P , I and D before anything
you need to find the P/D Ratio for the quad you are working on
method is here
http://tiny.cc/uavtech
scroll all the way to the bottom and look for a PDF file called uavtech pid tuning principles
all is there
Yes the P/D ratio is important, that's why when I was saying to reduce P and D to do it by 25% instead of each individually.... I think we have a pretty good P/D ratio now. But since the new filter settings have helped I think we should reduce P because of the small quick oscillations... and since we have a good ratio for P/D I thought it best to reduce both the same %. UAVtech has awesome videos for sure, I watch them often. Not everyone uses his method though. Like JB tunes based on feel and video for instance. 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 (30-Nov-2019, 02:56 AM)bLoWsMokE Wrote: Yes the P/D ratio is important, that's why when I was saying to reduce P and D to do it by 25% instead of each individually.... I think we have a pretty good P/D ratio now. But since the new filter settings have helped I think we should reduce P because of the small quick oscillations... and since we have a good ratio for P/D I thought it best to reduce both the same %.
UAVtech has awesome videos for sure, I watch them often. Not everyone uses his method though. Like JB tunes based on feel and video for instance. Maybe UAV tech can tell us why disabling the RPM filtering do a stable flight in this SPRacing F3 board with BF 4.1.1 I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 30-Nov-2019, 11:43 PM (This post was last modified: 01-Dec-2019, 12:09 AM by bLoWsMokE.) (30-Nov-2019, 11:34 PM)rolo95 Wrote: Maybe UAV tech can tell us why disabling the RPM filtering do a stable flight in this SPRacing F3 board with BF 4.1.1 good idea... We spoke through the ocmment section on youtube though and it was a couple months ago, but I'll see if he responds. We did talk for like 3 days back nd fourth though 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 01-Dec-2019, 12:30 AM (This post was last modified: 01-Dec-2019, 12:38 AM by bLoWsMokE.) Also I watched that tuning video of the whoop.... He does it slightly different than I do... I separate the PIDs from the the gyro and use the set point and the gyro to analyze... he uses the PIDs and the gyro to analyze... with me I have to go back and fourth to look t the isolated PID values then compare it to figure out what i need to do... it's KIND of the same thing but the way he does it is convenient.... I'm gonna keep doing it the way I do it right.... but I'm definitely gonna start adding the gyro into the PID sum as well so I can see that as well..... Convenience! I just used to look back and fourth at the PID and the Gyro.... Easier to just add the gyro there lol.... it does start getting a little clustered though.... but still, it's proly what I'm gonna start doing.
His step by step method is more or less exactly how I do it as well.... filters first... P/D then feed forward...... However, in that video I sent you the guy says that tuning for prop wash is possible, but tuning through the BB and getting the set point to follow the gyro (visa versa actually) will reduce prop wash just as a function of what you're doing... If you're tuning for bounce back and oscillations just in normal flight, and you get that as perfect as you can, prop wash should go away by default.
Also I believe that prop wash goes away the better the pilot gets.... JB also says this in so many words. When you get have a good tune, and you're still getting prop wash at certain instances, it's very likely/my experience that you can reduce that or get rid of it completely just by how you handle the sticks. Of course this is assuming your tune is already really good. And there is usually a limit on how much filtering you can remove and D term you can increase before your motors get way too hot and risk smoking up. So you might have a great tun but still get prop wash simply because you're at the limit of the filtering and D term.... in that case it's all about the sticks. 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 01-Dec-2019, 01:34 AM (This post was last modified: 01-Dec-2019, 02:32 AM by rolo95.) Haaa very nice dissertation of Filtering N Sticks how strange that nobody have chimed in, is because i posted this on the beginners section ? ------------------ I will get a little off topic Check this Video https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost...count=7347 haven't tested yet for some minutes of fly time on ANgle to see if i get the "drifting problem" this guy says that doing this the problems goes away " Turning off Damped Light/Active braking in ESC BLHELI Solved this angle mode problem." that thing happens on NAZE F3 boards My SPRacing F3 do the same and my LDARC 200GT that have an F4 and BF 3.3 but maybe with BF 4.1.1 and what you adjusted it will not, i will test on Monday i think oR tomorrow if i can the whole discussion about the drifting is here https://github.com/cleanflight/cleanflight/issues/791 I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 01-Dec-2019, 02:20 AM (This post was last modified: 01-Dec-2019, 02:21 AM by bLoWsMokE.) http://prntscr.com/q4gszr
(01-Dec-2019, 01:34 AM)rolo95 Wrote: Haaa
very nice dissertation of Filtering N Sticks
how strange that nobody have chimed in, is because i posted this on the beginners section ?
------------------
I will get a little off topic
Check this Video
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost...count=7347
haven't tested yet for some minutes of fly time on ANgle to see if i get the "drifting problem"
this guy says that doing this the problems goes away
"Turning off Damped Light/Active braking in ESC BLHELI Solved this angle mode problem."
that thing happens on NAZE F3 boards
My SPRacing F3 do the same and my LDARC 200GT that have an F4 and BF 3.3
but maybe with BF 4.1.1 and what you adjusted it will not,
i will test on Monday i think
ot tomorrow if i can
the whole discussion about the drifting is here
https://github.com/cleanflight/cleanflight/issues/791 IDK I don't think many people mess with PIDs much and they proly followd for a little bit but not anymore...... 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
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