Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 27-Nov-2019, 04:32 AM (This post was last modified: 27-Nov-2019, 04:34 AM by bLoWsMokE.) Ok check it out.... http://prntscr.com/q2le5d The wavy line is the gyro the red line is the set point... the set point is what the sticks are doing, what you are telling the craft to do.. the gyro is what the craft is actually doing.... You can see you are getting wobbling.......... Following the PID numbers I gave you a few posts ago should help this a little bit. BTW forget about punch outs and rolls on the black box log... let's just focus on getting rid of that wobble.... Don't pay attention to the bottom lines yet that is what the PIDs are actually doing.... it's always gonna look like a mess, it should. But notice your YAW gyro and set point..... that's what we want pitch and roll to eventually look like! Pitch and roll are the tough ones though.... but you can see that the craft isn't doing any weird yaw things, the gyro is following the setpoint pretty nicely. Very small deviations btu I think that's because of what's going on with pitch and roll. 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
![[-]](https://intofpv.com/images/collapse.png) • Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 (27-Nov-2019, 04:32 AM)bLoWsMokE Wrote: Ok check it out....
http://prntscr.com/q2le5d
The wavy line is the gyro the red line is the set point... the set point is what the sticks are doing, what you are telling the craft to do.. the gyro is what the craft is actually doing.... You can see you are getting wobbling.......... Following the PID numbers I gave you a few posts ago should help this a little bit. BTW forget about punch outs and rolls on the black box log... let's just focus on getting rid of that wobble....
Don't pay attention to the bottom lines yet that is what the PIDs are actually doing.... it's always gonna look like a mess, it should. But notice your YAW gyro and set point..... that's what we want pitch and roll to eventually look like! Pitch and roll are the tough ones though.... but you can see that the craft isn't doing any weird yaw things, the gyro is following the setpoint pretty nicely. Very small deviations btu I think that's because of what's going on with pitch and roll. 10-4 Masta !! will do and report back!  I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 Ok, here is the BB file with the updated PIDS Download link https://wetransfer.com/downloads/17cd0dc...509/08f983 I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 (27-Nov-2019, 07:26 PM)rolo95 Wrote: Ok,
here is the BB file with the updated PIDS
Download link
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/17cd0dc...509/08f983 http://prntscr.com/q305cw See how the are wobbling a little less and now the wobbles have a higher frequency? Now is time to start increasing D.... D pitch raise 8 points. D roll raise 4 points. Just to confirm, you also raised the Dterm lowpass filter from 70 to 100 right? Also it looks like ur having a lot of wobbles when you move the sticks a little, but you might've noticed a slight improvement in steadiness when hovering... I can see it in the logs the gyro is clearly wobbling less. Also, I on roll seems to dip when the Pterm goes up.... do you have anti gravity mode ON or OFF? This type of thing shouldn't happen with anti gravity turned ON. Although you usually see this at the end of a roll not in just hovering. Ok it's seeming more likely that the idea I had mentioned earlier in a post might actually help, but for now just do these small D term changes and take another black box log recording and send it. BTW my idea is to lower I pretty dramatically.... Don't do that yet though.... One thing at a time, or else you get lost and have to back track which makes it even more tedious. We are already doing 2 or 3 things at once each time let's not push it xD The log you just sent shows an improvement I think.... At least while hovering. One last thing.... what are your rates at? I'm thinking you should lower them a good amount like 300 DPS for roll and pitch.... vanover style lol... it should help with ease of flying.... 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 27-Nov-2019, 11:05 PM (This post was last modified: 27-Nov-2019, 11:17 PM by rolo95.) Quote:Just to confirm, you also raised the Dterm lowpass filter from 70 to 100 right?
Yup
I can see it in the logs the gyro is clearly wobbling less.
Yup hoover better
Also, I on roll seems to dip when the Pterm goes up.... do you have anti gravity mode ON or OFF?
ON
One last thing.... what are your rates at? I'm thinking you should lower them a good amount like 300 DPS for roll and pitch.... vanover style lol... it should help with ease of flying....
667 DPS Adjusting now i will UL the BB log soon ------------------- ok, i hoover and it still trembles see BB Link below ( arggg i wish to have a better FC, this one takes AGES to Dump the BB File ) just for that i want to upgrade the FL lol Download link
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/bb867d110f8dee8ca45cfcd21fa1392420191127221624/db07706638622bd88d2ba92cfb029c9620191127221624/cdee8b I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 (27-Nov-2019, 11:05 PM)rolo95 Wrote: Adjusting now
i will UL the BB log soon
-------------------
ok, i hoover and it still trembles
see BB Link below
( arggg i wish to have a better FC, this one takes AGES to Dump the BB File )
just for that i want to upgrade the FL lol
Download link
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/bb867d110f8dee8ca45cfcd21fa1392420191127221624/db07706638622bd88d2ba92cfb029c9620191127221624/cdee8b It looks like what is happening is that when you hover it's ok... when you move the drone its ok... but when you stop moving the drone it starts to struggle big time. Does this mean you're in angle mode? You should do this all in acro mode.... Ok if your motors haven't been getting hot, then turn the number on the DTERM lowpass filter to 150. Decrease I by 15 on pitch and 15 on roll... And increase D on both by 8. After doing all of these things make sure you check your motors after a short hover make sure they're not hot. Send me the BBL after.... Also when you send the BB lemme know how this changed the flight feel. We gotta get rid of that wobble when you move the drone.... What protocol are you using BTW? Dshot... multishot??? And how fast is your PID loop? Do you have it at 4k4k or 8k8k or? Try to get these as high as possible without make the cpu load go over 50% (usually you want it to go less than 30% but this drone is a strange one. Also please still try and do whatever you can do reduce the overall weight. I have a feelin we're gonna end up getting to some weird number here when all said and done. I'm worried you won't be able to get the desired P without passing that "fly away" threshold. And deleting the previous file helps with the BB file upload speed so that's good at least xD 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 28-Nov-2019, 01:53 AM (This post was last modified: 28-Nov-2019, 02:15 AM by rolo95.) (28-Nov-2019, 12:55 AM)bLoWsMokE Wrote: It looks like what is happening is that when you hover it's ok... when you move the drone its ok... but when you stop moving the drone it starts to struggle big time. Does this mean you're in angle mode? You should do this all in acro mode....
Yes Angle
Ok if your motors haven't been getting hot, then turn the number on the DTERM lowpass filter to 150.
Decrease I by 15 on pitch and 15 on roll... And increase D on both by 8.
What protocol are you using BTW? Dshot... multishot???
Dshoot 300 RPM FIlter enabled , BF 4.1.1 F3 Performance edition, loop is 2K 2K, if i use 4K 4K it goes to 100% Cpu
And how fast is your PID loop? Do you have it at 4k4k or 8k8k or? Try to get these as high as possible without make the cpu load go over 50% (usually you want it to go less than 30% but this drone is a strange one.
I'm worried you won't be able to get the desired P without passing that "fly away" threshold.
I know how that looks and Feel, if that starts to happen i kill the arming with my Radio Arming Switch and instantly i see a falling dead weight LOL After your last tweaks see below screen shoots PIDS https://prnt.sc/q32z3d Rates https://prnt.sc/q32zbl FIlters https://prnt.sc/q32zi5 ------------------------------------- BB Log is transfering look for the last flight file i switch from ANGLE to HORIZON to ACRO at the end and was able to hover for 5 or 8 second, its hard inside the little room i think i need some expo on my sticks ------------------------------------------------- BB Log Download link
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/399aafd0ad1aa965b9e9c758409f680220191128011412/b57f52becc87a21439d48d42e41008de20191128011412/dc382d I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 28-Nov-2019, 08:46 AM (This post was last modified: 28-Nov-2019, 09:11 AM by bLoWsMokE.) (28-Nov-2019, 01:53 AM)rolo95 Wrote: After your last tweaks
see below screen shoots
PIDS
https://prnt.sc/q32z3d
Rates
https://prnt.sc/q32zbl
FIlters
https://prnt.sc/q32zi5
-------------------------------------
BB Log is transfering
look for the last flight file
i switch from ANGLE to HORIZON to ACRO at the end
and was able to hover for 5 or 8 second,
its hard inside the little room
i think i need some expo on my sticks
-------------------------------------------------
BB Log
Download link
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/399aafd0ad1aa965b9e9c758409f680220191128011412/b57f52becc87a21439d48d42e41008de20191128011412/dc382d Yeah turn the RC super rate up and the rc rates down Get it to like 300 - 400 DPS and increase the expo.... ur never going further than 50% stick at all so just throwing a bunch of expo would do it too. I'll look at the BB log tomorrow it's 3am I'm going to bed after I type this xD And LMFAO at those PIDs xD The motors aren't getting hot at all? Edit: I looked at the logs xD And I learned something.... Acro mode vs angle mode make an ENORMOUS difference... I guess I never sat down to tune a mod on angle mode.... When you had it on acro mode the whole picture changed!!! Overall though It looks like we're on the right track. The one issue I'm seeing is that it looks like there is iterm windup happening but that doesn't make sense..... You never answered before what protocol are you using? Dshot, multishot? http://prntscr.com/q36wqb We are starting to do good here... see how much close the lines are.... gyro is following the set point now... HOWEVER... once you turned to acro look what happens..... http://prntscr.com/q36xv2 it is much better when you're hovering..... HOWEVER... it's more jaggedy, the oscillations are higher frequency... this means that P is too high but seeing D at 70 is just ridiculous lol..... I know it's a very unique craft but I still feel weird seeing that.... if this isn't making your motors hot increase Dterm lowpass filter number to 200 if this makes your motors hot then decrease D little by little until the motors aren't getting hot (after seeing the acro log I think we're gonna be reducing D and P slightly together anyway).... Make sure dynamic filter is on BTW.... http://prntscr.com/q36zjo ^^^^^^^^ Switch that off. 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 28-Nov-2019, 09:50 AM (This post was last modified: 28-Nov-2019, 10:04 AM by rolo95.) Blowsmoke,
look at post #37
read inside the quoted text, all my answers are in bold
dhsot300 if you look
also this FC suffers from the so-called infamous Drift in Angle mode
you calibrate the accelerometer and it hovers, but after a minute it starts to drift in the roll axis , so you compensate with the stick to maintain a hoover
but then after 1 more minute it drifts some more, so you compensate more with the stick but then you can't cope with the drift and need to land and do the sticks commands to recalibrate the accelerometer, i read on some forum that some people had the same issue and a guy post a cure using the CLI there where some commands,
set acc_lpf_factor = 0
set accxy_deadband = 80
set accz_deadband = 80
set accz_lpf_cutoff = 5.000
i do not recall the exact numbers
and there is another guy who says that changing a setting in the Bheli ESC will do the trick
"Ok My Problem has now been solved, Even tho it does not make sense for this to effect this fault, It does, more so on crafts with low weight and heaps of thrust.
Turning off Damped Light/Active braking in ESC BLHELI Solved this angle mode problem.
It would be nice if someone could figure out why this happens in angle/horizon mode only tho. As its beyond my skills to check code etc"
thing is that BF 4.1.1 do not have those settings anymore i think it was pre BF 3.5 or older, I will look where i stored that. My LDARC 200GT do the same shit, in angle mode, drifts and drifts until you cant compensate.
anyway, that another topic.
i will do the adjustments tomorrow
thanks for your time and patience
Happy Thanks Giving !!
Gooble !! Gooble !!
Rolo. I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 28-Nov-2019, 10:02 AM (This post was last modified: 28-Nov-2019, 10:05 AM by bLoWsMokE.) (28-Nov-2019, 09:50 AM)rolo95 Wrote: Blowsmoke,
look at post #37
read inside the quoted text, all my answers are in bold
dhsot300 if you look
also this FC suffers from the so-called infamous Drift in Angle mode
you calibrate the accelerometer and it hovers, but after a minute it start to drift in the roll axis , so you compensate with the stick to maintain a hoover
but then after 1 more minute it drifts some more, so you compensate more with the stick but then you cant cope with the drift and need to land and do the sticks commands to recalibrate the accelerometer, i read on someforum that some people had the same issue and a guy post a cure using the CLI there where some commands , thing is that BF 4.1.1 do not have those settings anymore i think it was pre BF 3.5 or older, iwill look where i stored that. My LDARC 200GT do the same shit, in angle mode, drifts and drifts until you cant compensate.
anyway, that another topic.
i will do the adjustments tomorrow
thanks for your time and patience
Happy Thanks Giving !!
Gooble !! Gooble !!
Rolo. Have you adjusted your end points and subtrim on the radio? That can cause drift as well.... It will cause drift in acro mode too though.... If your trims are all set up correctly and you still get drift.. just hit the trim buttons on the radio to level out the hover...... IDK if this messes with the max threshold though.... Just do acro from now on though, even go outside and hover if you have to.... It will be easier to tune from acro, and doing that should translate to angle mode for the most part, although the differences in the BB log were larger than I would've thought. 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 28-Nov-2019, 10:04 AM (This post was last modified: 28-Nov-2019, 10:07 AM by rolo95.) (28-Nov-2019, 10:02 AM)bLoWsMokE Wrote: Have you adjusted your end points and subtrim on the radio? That can cause drift as well.... It will cause drift in acro mode too though.... If your trims are all set up correctly and you still get drift.. just hit the trim buttons on the radio to level out the hover...... IDK if this messes with the max threshold though.... yeah all trims and dead points adjusted this problem is wellknown here is an example it happens in clean flight also https://github.com/cleanflight/cleanflight/issues/791 although i havent tested in BF 4.1.1 ... im not in the office i just edited my last post check please I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 28-Nov-2019, 10:08 AM (This post was last modified: 28-Nov-2019, 10:12 AM by bLoWsMokE.) (28-Nov-2019, 10:04 AM)rolo95 Wrote: im not in the office
i just edited my last post
check please Are you using a blheli S esc or 32?.. I wonder if turning off RPM filter would be better.... IDK anything about the new RPM filter though.... I still haven't heard if your motors are getting hot or not.... If they stil laren't then this might have something to do with the RPM filters... and if that's the case then I am super impressed. You should be able to get 4k 4k on an f3 board at least..... I wonder if you have unnecessary things turned on........ I would imagine the BB adds to CPU usage too. I wonder if it's because of the RPM filter..... you have the magnetometer and barometer set to off right? IDk if this will add to CPu usage, I know there are a few things that do but I can't think right now I'll get back to you tomorrow it's 4 am I'm tired and proly not thinking straight. 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 132 Threads: 4 Likes Received: 18 in 18 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Apr 2019 Reputation: 3 28-Nov-2019, 06:24 PM (This post was last modified: 28-Nov-2019, 07:14 PM by rolo95.) (28-Nov-2019, 10:08 AM)bLoWsMokE Wrote: *****************************
****** Answers in Bold *********
*****************************
Are you using a blheli S esc or 32?..
BlHeli_S JASC edition ( for bidirectional Dshoot and ESC telemetry )
IDK anything about the new RPM filter though....
[quote pid='76634' dateline='1574932118'] I still haven't heard if your motors are getting hot or not.... Cool motors, not even warm  you have the magnetometer and barometer set to off right? this FC do not have barometer or magnetometer, only Accelerometer for Angle and Horizon [/quote] YOU are not going to believe this!!!! i disabled RPM filtering and the fast oscillations almost gone away, i can tell seeing the bird to hoover and in ANGLE MODE!!! almost as smooth as my LDARC 200GT ( that have stock pids, and they can be better but thats another topic ) ok, i disable that filter you told me, did the RC rates and super rates adjustment and here is the BB Log flight 1 is ANGLE, Flight 3 is ACRO flight 2 is garbage i hit a desk LOL !!! the loop freqs is 4K 2K Uploading BB Lognow.... BRB ----------------------------- Ok, see the latest BB Log and screenshoots of current config https://prnt.sc/q3gyzo https://prnt.sc/q3gzs9 https://prnt.sc/q3h03y https://prnt.sc/q3h0h1 https://prnt.sc/q3h0ra Download link
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/57cd41f365d9da02a7188a1576eb0a4620191128180708/28458c54e66df0c50fbf984d06bdc11620191128180708/51592d I only know that i know nothing • Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 29-Nov-2019, 02:01 AM (This post was last modified: 29-Nov-2019, 02:05 AM by bLoWsMokE.) (28-Nov-2019, 06:24 PM)rolo95 Wrote: [quote pid='76634' dateline='1574932118']
I still haven't heard if your motors are getting hot or not....
Cool motors, not even warm
you have the magnetometer and barometer set to off right?
this FC do not have barometer or magnetometer, only Accelerometer for Angle and Horizon YOU are not going to believe this!!!! i disabled RPM filtering and the fast oscillations almost gone away, i can tell seeing the bird to hoover and in ANGLE MODE!!! almost as smooth as my LDARC 200GT ( that have stock pids, and they can be better but thats another topic ) ok, i disable that filter you told me, did the RC rates and super rates adjustment and here is the BB Log flight 1 is ANGLE, Flight 3 is ACRO flight 2 is garbage i hit a desk LOL !!! the loop freqs is 4K 2K Uploading BB Lognow.... BRB ----------------------------- Ok, see the latest BB Log and screenshoots of current config https://prnt.sc/q3gyzo https://prnt.sc/q3gzs9 https://prnt.sc/q3h03y https://prnt.sc/q3h0h1 https://prnt.sc/q3h0ra Download link
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/57cd41f365d9da02a7188a1576eb0a4620191128180708/28458c54e66df0c50fbf984d06bdc11620191128180708/51592d [/quote] I do believe it! I just wish I understood exactly what was goin on.... Someone here explained to me that there is a difference between runtime processing power and actual processing power, and while the RPM doesn't need an incredible amount of CPU power it needs a lot of runtime power.... (SOMETHING like that) But I had a feeling that maybe RPM filter was doing something funky, so i'm glad we made that leap... Though I'm sure you could've adjusted the RPM filter appropriately to achieve the same type of thing but like i said I don't know anything baout the RPM filter enough to try to work with it through a forum... I've seen the videos, but I'm more of a hands on learner I'd have to have tried it myself, and really gotten into it. I'm glad we made a lot of progress with just this thing here..... It might mean we have to kinda start over with the tuning but w.e this has been fun. I never get sick of seeing BB logs then making adjustments to make the BB log act the way it should, which then translates into better flight characteristics...... And we've been doing that for the most part I think.... I was asking about the protocol and suggested maybe getting rid of RPM filtering because it felt there was something ELSE going on behind the scenes... The hovering in the BB was smooth, yet as soon as you moved the stick all hell broke loose, and I couldn't understand why....... I wanted to make this post shorter but I never can lol.... I basicalyl just was GOING to say let's resume this tomorrow I had along thanksgiving had to drive a few states over and back to see family.... AND we're in the middle of packing up and getting ready to uproot and move to south Carolina in an RV.. So a lot is going on right now xD Also I only got like 4 hours sleep today/last night Edit: Are you 100% positive those micro oscillations went away because the removing the RPM filter, or could it have been upping the PID to 4k 2k? Did you do both at the same time? And BTW I knew it didn't have mag and barometer I was just wodnering if you had them switched on..... It should'nt' make a differnece but I've seen stranger things in this hobby. EDIT EDIT: turn on AIR mode and see what happens... see if you notice any difference..... I imagine it's possible to get fly away doing this with the PIDs as high as they are so take care. 'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• Posts: 1,798 Threads: 57 Likes Received: 254 in 227 posts Likes Given: 102 Joined: Aug 2019 Reputation: 12 29-Nov-2019, 02:12 AM (This post was last modified: 29-Nov-2019, 02:16 AM by bLoWsMokE.) Ok I looked at the log lol (I keep wanting to just do my thing and forget about it, but I'm wayy too OCD I ad to see what removing the RPM filter did and I'm like shocked, even though it's so believable it's unbelievable lolol)... and it looks 1000x better..... We can actually go back to reasonable PID values.... the P is too high and the D is going NUTS lolol Quite interesting to see that actually lololol Lower the pitch P like 15 points and roll like 10 and lower D on both like 10 The insane PID values we had were fighting against whatever it was the issue with the RPM filter was and now they look like PIDs on crack... amped up for some crazy heavy metal concert or something ;D Now I have to figure out why that was happening and understand it, because it wasn't something I even thought of until I saw the RPM filter with the adjustments that are possible and thought... HMMMM IDK what that is... maybe it something might be different ifwe turned on the RPM filter. And now I'm wondering if your motors are NOW getting really hot... or if they are still a reasonable temperature after removing the RPM filters..... Since I like to gamble I'd bet the motors are getting warmer, but that's just a pure guess based on my assumptions about things I have no knowledge about  'Ignore' is the route word of Ignorant.
• |
