Salutations,

After reading the "BNF isn't really BNF" thread, I decided to join this forum.

I'm a middle-aged guy.  Tried to pick-up drones / FPV back in 2017.  Discovered Parrot and bought one (like DJI - "flying tripod") then realized it was "FPV drones" that I wanted to pursue.

I got a Taranis X9D plus (FrSky) and put some time into Liftoff.  I bought a really cheap Goggle setup (EV800D, I think it was?).  And then I tried the easiest "sort of BNF" quad I could find (Eachine Wizard).  Somehow got it operational with my minimal knowledge, and crashed it fairly hard on the 3rd or 4th time out (broke an arm).  This was heart-breaking to me, and I put all of my stuff into storage and just ... forgot about it all.

I was inspired to try and re-join the hobby recently.  I managed to fix the drone.  It flies LOS (but I'm terrible at it, have to keep it in STAB with the rear toward me).  Then I tried to fly FPV in an open grassy field.  I could barely see anything ... level of detail / granularity was insufficient for me to ascertain my altitude and I kept having mild crashes into the ground.  I did this about 3 times (no damage), and gave up.

I decided to spring for "proper" goggles (maybe my eyes are getting worse), but they are quite expensive.  After some research, I decided to go for DJI Goggles V2, because supposedly, you can install an analog module on that and have "dual compatibility" with "old" analog quads and newer ones using DJI O3 air (they seem to be bridging old and new tech).  These were running ~ $800 CAD.  I found a sale for ~ $1150 for the DJI FPV bundle (original one, with the drone, the goggles, and the controller).

From the reviews I have read, that drone is paradoxically both excellent and terrible for beginners 
PROs...
- GPS / RTH
- panic / pause
- can switch between flying modes at will and do take-off and landing "autopilot" style
CONs...
- super powerful
- heavy and unwieldy (reminds me of either a Blackhawk Helicopter or the Mandalorean Spaceship)
- fragile

What I am hoping to do, is find a mid-size drone (maybe a Cinewhoop ... like a 30 or a 35) that can be used outdoors in mild conditions (low wind) AND be useable indoors.  This sounds like a versatile setup and would be supposedly "beginner friendly."

I was thinking of getting a RadioMaster Pocket (ELRS) and then looking for a Cinewhoop that is compatible with that AND has O3 Air.  (Alternatively, I could use my Taranis controller, but I think it might be obsolete?)

But I want this to be as "pre-built" as possible.  Not only am I terrible at soldering, I apparently even kind of suck at figuring out Betaflight and all of that "firmware flashing" business.

Any thoughts and opinions re: the above?  Specific recommendations re: quads that fit the bill?

My current flying skill is ... I can fly "floaty and casual" in LiftOff without dying and do basic "tricks" when I have a lot of space.  I can complete the Easy level races with all of the "simulation" stuff ticked off, but my time is probably twice as long as the "competitor AI" drones.

Thanks for reading.

Dont step back, the dji drone isnt the performance or controll we like. You allready triwd a wizard, you might be disappointed how a dji fpv drone flies.


Another option for the moment would be a used goggle, an fatshark hdo or an hd2, a used orca fpv one...
The benefit would be price, for the price of a used goggle ith decent module, you will be able to add a quad and doesnt reach the price of a single dji goggle.
A single o3 unit does cost as much as a whole quad, dji wont go inexpensive.

It sounds to me, analog will save your pocket and still be q joy.

Fpv addiction will solve the issues with soldering and betaflight :-) its going to be a pleasure overtime.
Betaflight is huge, but it offers so many, its going to be very usfull overtime.

I would suggest analog, you will be able to get much much more flighttime out of the money. Digital fpv will proceed, there is no hurry.

Even though your FrSky Taranis X9D is 7 years old, it definitely isn't obsolete. I'm still running one of the same since 2018, albeit with a TBS Crossfire or ExpressLRS module plugged into the back of it. Just update it with the latest version of EdgeTX to bring the firmware up-to-date and get yourself an ExpressLRS module for the JR bay in the back, and you will then be good to go with all of the latest ELRS goodness. Of course, if you think it is too bulky then by all means get yourself something new and smaller with ELRS already built in.

P.S. Welcome to the forum

I am a noob and I started with the DJI FPV drone. It didn't take long to realize it was both very good at what it does and very bad. It's a great introduction to fpv with awesome video and huge training wheels. Once ready to remove those however, it is not an excellent FPV drone in acro mode. My setup has the V2 goggles and I got the BDI adapter and a Rapidfire analog module for my V2s. I am using stubby AXII antennas on it. Once I got a couple of analog drones up and running on raceband 8, I have flown almost every day at least one or two battery packs. If you want to fly both indoors and out you aren't going to get anything that is great at both in my opinion as they need to be small to fly indoors and bigger to deal with wind outdoors. It is not clear if you already bought the DJI setup or considering it but if you have it you can go the BDI route. If not, I wouldn't recommend that direction because the battery life is horrible and it is, after all, and hacked together solution albeit a clean one. I'm sure people will tell me I'm crazy but if I was just starting over with no money invested, I would tell that person to get a betafpv meteor pro and a radiomaster boxer radio. I would then recommend goggles that meet future needs. The DJI V2 are good if you are OK being on the DJI platform. Walksnail seems to be making progress in being a serious digital conentender. Then there's HDzero which is the direction I finally chose to go. It's not going to have the same digital experience in the goggles as the DJI/Walksnail but I'm OK with that. I ordered my first HDZero drone (mobula 6 eco) drone to try it out. On controllers, the pockets and game-controller-like remotes are hard for me to hybrid control and the boxer seems the perfect size. I'm selling by radiomaster zorro... For the drone, as long as the wind is single digit, the 75MM meteor75 pro (actually 85mm) can handle outside just fine and be flown inside though I'd still say a 65MM is more fun. I am flying my meteor 65 pro indoors pretty much exclusively. I've crashed both my meteors it in the grass, hit trees, landed in the gravel, and so on and it is still on the original frame and props on both. From there I bought more quads that can be flown outdoors exclusively though admittedly, my first jump was from 1S to 4S and it was too much of a jump. Feel free to DM me but don't spend any more money until you decide a clear path forward that gives you some flexibility.

If you want the ability to fly indoors, maybe you should consider the Avata kit instead of the DJI FPV drone. Avata will be extremely loud, but if you are not bothered by that, I believe it is even friendlier and much more durable than the DJI FPV. If you don't mind buying used, I've seen a lot of the older Avata (first version) RTF kits being sold for around $600 and some of them actually include a remote controller. Personally I would not pay $1000 today for a DJI FPV kit, that was the price several years back, maybe a used one if you find a good deal and want to fly longer distances.

If you don't like to do your own repairs, DJI does have a very good service and even out of warranty I believe their prices are relatively reasonable. However if you want to expand your FPV experience it probably makes sense to start learning more about firmwares, soldering, and even building your own drones. There is quite a learning curve, but you can take is slowly and a step at a time, there are plenty of tutorials and the community is quite helpful. If you find some flyers in your area, that will help a lot too.

In terms of analog, the older Goggles V2 does have the option to add analog in, but not sure it is that great an option. And if you've experienced digital, it might be harder to go back to analog. Vista air units (digital VTX) can be purchased for around $140 or less if you buy used, and as long as you are not planning on flying tiny whoops they might satisfy your FPV needs.

Thanks for all of the helpful and interesting replies.

I guess I wasn't clear (as was pointed out).  I DID pull the trigger on the DJI FPV bundle (just got it yesterday, charged everything up and will try and link everything together today).  My short-term next step is actually to get the DJI controller working and get some Sim time on Liftoff and the DJI app (since it is a lot smaller and with less travel or "throw" then the Taranis controller).

I'm not in a hurry to take the quad out re: my trepidation of crashing it AND it looks huge and (?) loud, and I want to be very selective about which environments I fly it in.  I tend to go to churches / school grounds on off hours.  With quieter quads (especially my DJI Mini 2 SE at altitude of > 20 or 30 m), I am not that worried about disturbing any nearby residential units.  I suspect the DJI FPV might be conspicuous, even in a 200 x 100 m area, if it is ringed by housing.

I guess the next step is to decide if I want to go the BDI + analog module and resurrect the Wizard vs. look for a drone like the Meteor that was mentioned.  

(Given the state of my pocketbook, that decision is a month or two out at least).  

Meanwhile, I'll work on practice / motor skills and admire the drone (I'm building a custom carry case for it that looks like it was made by a toddler.  I'll try and post a pic later!

Thanks again.

One other thing... it was suggested I could use the Taranis with EdgeTx and get an ELRS module. The only problem is that the old quad cannot even interact with Betaflight (I think the FC is too old and the Betaflight version is not backward compatible enough?). As such, I cannot change the settings or anything, and am relying on the old "bind data" in my Taranis. I assume that would be lost if I upgraded? Also, it looks like the ELRS modules are ~ $100 CAD (about the same price as an ELRS-equipped RadioMaster Pocket). Unless I'm missing something (so many details!), it seems like leaving the Taranis alone might be the best option?

(13-Jun-2024, 08:23 PM)Sarcopenia Wrote: One other thing... it was suggested I could use the Taranis with EdgeTx and get an ELRS module.  The only problem is that the old quad cannot even interact with Betaflight (I think the FC is too old and the Betaflight version is not backward compatible enough?).  As such, I cannot change the settings or anything, and am relying on the old "bind data" in my Taranis.  I assume that would be lost if I upgraded?  Also, it looks like the ELRS modules are ~ $100 CAD (about the same price as an ELRS-equipped RadioMaster Pocket).  Unless I'm missing something (so many details!), it seems like leaving the Taranis alone might be the best option?

My Taranis X9D Plus 2019 is compatible with ExpressLRS external module. However my older Taranis X9d Plus and Taranis X9D not plus (yes I have 4 of them) did not like to work with my ExpressLRS external module. The ExpressLRS lua script just hangs. So your mileage may vary. 

Sit down, figure out an immediate investment you are will to spend up front. Then figure out an ongoing maintenance fund you are willing to spend. Then move forward and start collecting new toys.

Ok, I just couldn't resist, so here is my 2 cents worth:

In the hobby for 6 years and I am still all analog. My analog video is actually
quite good. The screen that I see while flying is a bit better than the DVR
recording. Others (SeismicCWave) also have some very good quality analog 
systems.

Let's start with the googles. I have some FXT Viper V2 box goggles and the 
Eachine EV800D goggles. Personally, I think the screen is better in the EV800Ds 
and I know the distance is better. Consider that the EV800D googles are used by 
many of the long range pilots because they will go the distance; 8 miles or more 
according to some folks. Anyway, they are pretty decent box goggles. The thing is, 
goggles can not fix a bad video feed from the quad, not even those high end goggles. 
So, if the video is bad, it is likely an issue at the quad, but fixable. 

Now, let's consider the analog gear on the quad. 

First, use a good quality camera. I only use cameras rated for 1200TVL or better 
and get really decent image quality. Plus, mine are not the top of the line, there 
are even better ones. Good video starts with an excellent camera. Any issues here 
can not be fixed along the way. 

Next, a good, high wattage VTX. Get a good (dual head if possible) VTX antenna 
and mount it high and to the rear of the quad with a slight backward tilt. The antenna 
head needs to be higher than the battery (if top mounted). 

Plus, use a decent size capacitor. I run 3S quads and use a 35V 1000 uf cap. If I 
were to run 4S, then it would be a 50V 1000 uf or 1500 uf. Some will say that this is 
overkill, but I say it isn't. It works for me and I get really decent video quality so I will
 keep using this practice. Analog video CAN be really good if you want it to be and 
work for it. Analog video quality does Not have to be crappy.

Of course, where you fly makes a difference as well. If the fly location has a lot of strong
EMF or a lot of 5.8 Ghz LAN traffic, well that can wreck havoc with the signal. Plus, having
good RF LOS is important. Flying behind a steel shipping container or a dense concrete
building pretty much means that you have no signal. From my experience, the 5.8 Ghz
video just doesn't penetrate super dense objects. What you might actually pick up is
some "reflected" signal, but that is about it. 

There is more to the video discussion, but saving that for another time.

The point is, if you want decent analog video, you can get it...
AND... even the best (high dollar) goggles can't fix a bad video feed. 

Later, iFly   

(13-Jun-2024, 09:21 PM)iFly4rotors Wrote: Ok, I just couldn't resist, so here is my 2 cents worth:

In the hobby for 6 years and I am still all analog. My analog video is actually
quite good. The screen that I see while flying is a bit better than the DVR
recording. Others (SeismicCWave) also have some very good quality analog 
systems.

Yes I almost couldn't resist either. I would have recommended going with analog to start. I don't like DJI and who know what is going to happen to them if there is a ban on their products. I know nothing about that so I cannot comment.
I have Walksnail but I am not sold. Yes image quality is good but I still don't like the smearing of the grass. I don't mind trying HD Zero but I have to designate a budget for that.
In the meantime I LOVE analog totally because I can mix and match VTX and cameras. That gives me a purpose to fly my quad because I like to tinker. I swap cameras faster than I change my underwear.
The analog image quality is not that bad once I use better cameras. Of course there are a lot of analog cameras with terrible image quality. Even expensive cameras have different image quality from copy to copy.
Plus once I have an analog setup tweaked to how I like it I brush on some conformal coating and I fly any time including in the rain. Which happens a lot. My Walksnail setup does not like rain.

Thanks for those further clarifications.  I had not thought about where the "bottleneck" in quality was located.  TBH, I just thought mass produced products from China were all potentially suspect.  I will keep the Eachine EV800D kicking around for awhile yet.  As I said, I need to save up some funds.  I wish there was a bit more standardization ... the threat of brands fading away or protocols no longer being supported is a bit depressing (wasted money).

As promised, here are some pics of my ghetto transport setup so far.  Hot glue gun and children's play mats are my "duct tape."

I also run the EV800D. With the right camera and VTX, you can get a pretty good picture nowadays. Cams like the Foxeer Predator, Runcam Phoenix and Caddx Ratel will give you clear images. VTX wise, take your pick, but aim for something reasonably powerful, even if you only run it at 200mW.

(14-Jun-2024, 03:01 AM)Pathfinder075 Wrote: I also run the EV800D.  With the right camera and VTX, you can get a pretty good picture nowadays.  Cams like the Foxeer Predator, Runcam Phoenix and Caddx Ratel will give you clear images.  VTX wise, take your pick, but aim for something reasonably powerful, even if you only run it at 200mW.

Interestingly My BetaFPV A03 went from the "VTX that I almost threw away" to the "VTX that gives me the most stable video image".

Yeah after seeing how you got yours working I am going to put mine on a different build and run it on Tramp. Getting fed up with the Diamond DVR, the last one wouldn't record video files no matter how i formatted the sd card. I have a number of rebranded AKK 600mW VTX as well for the 4-6S builds.

(14-Jun-2024, 04:29 PM)Pathfinder075 Wrote: Yeah after seeing how you got yours working I am going to put mine on a different build and run it on Tramp.  Getting fed up with the Diamond DVR, the last one wouldn't record video files no matter how i formatted the sd card.  I have a number of rebranded AKK 600mW VTX as well for the 4-6S builds.

I am ready to swap out the FC from a GEPRC to a HAKRC. Same one you ordered. I hope I can connect the A03 to it. The pads are labeled differently but I think I got it figured out. I also had a warning when I flashed firmware V4.5 on the FC that I want to find out more. I don't want to mess with the one that is flying so I ordered another one. 

That's how I keep on collecting multicopters the last time. This time around I am falling into the same pattern. The last time I had 26 multicopters at one time. Now I am up to 15 so far.