(04-Jan-2021, 11:22 PM)V-22 Wrote: Here is what I came up with, assuming a 125g dry weight and a 2s VTC6 18650 3000mAh pack discharged ~95%. AUW is 218g. Feasible?

Lumenier RX1306-9  3100kv, 4024 prop, 2.2 thrust to weight ratio, 10246 m range, 23.3 min flight time (41.6 min hover!)


Lumenier RX1306-9  3100kv, 4030 prop, 2.4 thrust to weight ratio, 11274 m range (7 miles!), 22.1 min flight time (41.6 min hover!)


RCinPower QAV 1104 4000kv or T1104 4000kv, 4030 prop, 3.1 thrust to weight ratio, 10583 m range, 18.5 min flight time


Lumenier RX1306-7  4000kv, 4030 prop, 3.3 thrust to weight ratio, 11119 m range, 18.7 min flight time


Lumenier RX1306-7  4000kv, 4024 prop, 3.1 thrust to weight ratio, 10147 m range, 19.6 min flight time


I think the Lumenier 1306 4000kv would actually be the best option, as you have a little more power on tap. Unfortunately I can't find any of these motors available to buy, but at least it gives us a sense as to where to look. Any thoughts for similar motors?

https://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc.php?eca...ng%20Range

I think it's important to note that the build outlined here would have far superior performance to a Mini 2, in that it would be capable of much faster flight speeds and even light acro. The Mini 2 is a cinematic platform designed to only be flown in angle mode with quite low angle limits. And in order to get the advertised 31 min flight time, you need to fly at a mere 10.5 mph!

Here is a comparison of the official Mini 2 specs (https://www.dji.com/mini-2/specs) with the conservative eCalc predictions for the 1306-4000kv 4" LR build:

Hi V-22,

From your last comparison chart, the 4" LR Build that you listed does not meet the criteria of 30 minute Fly Time.

Also, I am already at a Fly Time over 21 minutes, but I think we can eek out some more.

Now, the DJI specs don't say that the 30 minutes and 10K are in the same flight;
nor did we spec that the 30 minute fly time and the 10K be in the same flight.

In fact, I view them as separate items.

Now, the sub 250 grams AUW applies across the board and concurrent with the other criteria.
But the other criteria need NOT have concurrency as long as they are each attainable on one flight or another.
If it will fly for 30 minutes, even if just barely moving that meets that criteria.
If it will stay in the air and cover 10K total distance, regardless of Fly Time, then that meets that criteria.

Even though the Quest250-LR is being specifically built to meet the criteria and achieve the goals,
I think that the Phantom-X also has a pretty good chance at it. I am currently outfitting the Phantom-X for long range.
Currently, she is running 1303 5000kv motors, however, I want to try both a 1306 4000 motor and a 1402 9400kv.

By the way,  Thanks again for all of your work with eCalc. 
The resulting estimates are extremely valuable and are helping to narrow the decision making which is pretty much down to motors and props.

Thank You Very MUCH !     

How does it not meet the 30 min flight time? The hover time is 41 mins, and matching the 10.5 mph max efficiency speed of the Mini 2 the flight time is 35 mins. The Mini 2 would cover ~8.75 km (in 31 min) and the LR 4" would cover ~9.8km (in 35min) at that speed. It's close enough that I'm sure you could fly slightly faster and stretch a 10km flight to 30 mins with the 4" LR build.

However, at the predicted max efficiency speed of ~20 mph for the 4" LR build, flight time is 22 min covering over 11 km. The smaller, faster props of the 4" build mean a higher speed at max efficiency, which hopefully makes for a less boring 10+km flight

(01-Feb-2021, 08:52 PM)V-22 Wrote: How does it not meet the 30 min flight time? The hover time is 41 mins, and matching the 10.5 mph max efficiency speed of the Mini 2 the flight time is 35 mins. Both would cover just shy of 10 km at that speed. 

At the predicted max efficiency speed of ~20 mph for the 4" LR build, flight time is 22 min covering over 11 km.

Hi V-22,

OOPS,  my Bad.      I was just looking down the comparison chart.    Must have missed that.  

You are absolutely correct. 

Keep everything else as light as possible, 
1306  3100kv motors
4030 props


I will be ordering a set of the 1306 3100Kv motors and the 4030 props. I think that I have everything else. 

Again, sorry for missing that. Maybe I need better glasses (ha, ha)...or just to be a lot younger 

Hi V-22,

The Lumenier 1306 motors are all out of stock. 

So far, the EMAX 1306 4000kv motors are in stock at PyroDrone. 
At this point, that is all that I can find that are in stock, but these are both listed as 3-4S...
so...wonder how or if, they would work on 2S 

Could you run that with Brotherhobby 1402 9400kv motors and see how it comes out ???

I have been looking at this motor for a while now as being an option 

Thanks 

For in stock motors, I think these RCinPower 1204-5000kv will be your best bet:
https://www.racedayquads.com/collections...00kv-motor

   

Hi V-22,

Ok, I will order a set of RCinPower 1204-5000kv motors from RDQ.

How did the 1402 9400kv motors work out? Any thoughts?

Thanks
 

I can't find any published specs for the Brotherhobby 1402 9400kv motors. If you can find them I'm happy to plug them in!

Hi V-22,

I don't know if this is enough information, but it was all that I could find on the Brotherhobby website. I have attached a pic of the specs that I found. Hopefully, this will be enough for eCalc.  
Thanks

While I was there, I went ahead and ordered 4 of them.  They are on their way, but it will likely take a while since I think they are shipping from China. Oh, well.

Thanks

The key parameters you need are: KV (obviously), Idle Current (and voltage), Motor Resistance, and Max Power rating. Here are some examples of where you can find them on motor spec sheets. Unfortunately not all motor manufacturers publish them, or they're difficult to find. The good news is they are easy to measure with the right setup (at least KV, idle current and resistance). There were several people actively doing motor and prop testing in the past, but that seems to have died down. If no one picks it up again before summer, I'll probably invest in a setup so I can do some testing focused on long range/efficiency builds. With the renewed focus on micro long range, I'd be surprised if we don't start seeing some independent testing popping up soon. 

   

I have received the following motors:

RCinPower 1204 5000 Kv
Flywoo Robo V2 1204 5150 Kv

and have ordered a set of Brotherhobby 1402 9500 Kv motors.

These motors should offer a decent comparison on either side of the 1303 5000 Kv motors {on the same craft, obviously}

Since the RCinPower 1204 5000 Kv have eCalc estimations that show this motor on the Quest250-LR build should meet the objectives of matching the DJI Mavic Mini 2 performance metrics, they are going on that craft.

The Flywoo 1204s and the Brotherhobby 1402s will be tested on the Phantom-X. This comparison should be very interesting since it will be for 3 sets of different size motors {1204, 1303, 1402} that are in the approximate power to weight range, but have having different power curves and performance characteristics. This is an experiment that I have wanted to do for some time now and should provide a decent evaluation of going to wider/shorter motors {each step is 1 up in width and 1 down in height}.

Looking forward to your findings!

The 1204's have a much larger stator volume than the 1303 and 1402, so I'm wondering whether you'll notice much difference in power. The 1402s are also a much higher Kv, so RPM and current draw will likely be higher.

Motor Size     Stator Volume
1204             452 mm^3
1303             398 mm^3
1402             308 mm^3

(03-Feb-2021, 05:07 PM)V-22 Wrote: Looking forward to your findings!

The 1204's have a much larger stator volume than the 1303 and 1402, so I'm wondering whether you'll notice much difference in power. The 1402s are also a much higher Kv, so RPM and current draw will likely be higher.

Motor Size     Stator Volume
1204             452 mm^3
1303             398 mm^3
1402             308 mm^3

Hi V-22,

Thanks for the information. It will be interesting to doe some actual in flight testing to see just what kind of "Real" difference I get between these 3 motors given the different Stator Volume. 

Thanks

2021-02-17

Well, the Phantom-X is operational once again. Pretty much all of the electronics have been upgraded. She is now set up for Long Range sporting an R9MM receiver and an iFlight GPS.

Hopefully, things will work out for me to get some Fly Time in and see how the Phantom-X flies with the new upgrades.

Next, I will be working on the Quest250-LR.

Stay tuned... 

2021-03-07

With my "Real Life" projects taking precedence, I don't have as much time to spend on my FPV hobby so things will progress a little slower. On the other hand, I will continue to press forward on builds and fly when I can. One of my life projects involves  the purchase of a piece of rural property in a location where I will be able to fly some longer runs...maybe even attempts at 5K...so that helps.

That said, I have received the Armattan Bobcat frame from The.Ronin so now I am anxious to build something with it. I really want to see if I can get a decent quad built on the Bobcat frame. Since this will be just a fun experimental quad, I might go ahead and push the build up on the list.

Yeah, I already have all of the parts...how about that