Intro:

So I have recently crashed my 5" quad, which was designed to be a "freestyle & long-range wanna-be" quad.
I crashed it on the beach, and got some water in it, but I managed to save the battery, and the GPS (bn-220, wish it would've died with the FC), and maybe the ESCs, I'll check later.
Anyway, I can rebuild it with another spare FC&ESC combo I have laying around.. but I'll re-purpose it to be a freestyle quad only, with a lost-model beeper and that's it.

What I want:

I have decided to build a new long-range quad, I have decided on 5", it's also my birthday so I guess that's a good excuse as well  .
but to be completely honest, I am not 100% sure whether I should go 5", 7" or even 4", the main reasons I have decided to get 5" are

1. I am more experienced with working with 5" quads
2. I have lots of spare props for 5", including Gemfan 5126 props, which are waiting for me at the local post office.
3. I want to have a bit more space than 4", to fit a lost model buzzer, a decent sized FC (30x30) and VTX comfortably.

I want a to build a stable and hopefully smooth quad, that will be able to fly 25-40 minutes, no freestyle of course, but enough power to handle winds I guess,
I am not looking to compromise all the performance for the best of the best flight time is what I'm trying to say.
I'm also going to use P42A Li-ion cells, which are rated for 4.2A, 45A discharge rate(10.7C), and approximate weight of 67g per cell.

---

What I am thinking of getting:

Frame: I don't know, I'll explain
Motors: BrotherHobby Avenger 2004 LR 1650KV
ESCs: I'm not sure, I'll explain
FC: Matek F722-SE
GPS: Matek M8Q-5883
PDB: Will come with the FC I believe
Camera: I'm not sure, I'll explain
VTX: I'm not sure, I'll explain
VTX antenna: TBS triumph clone
Props: I'm not sure, I'll explain
Receiver: R9mm flashed with ELRS
Receiver antenna: Frsky Dipole T antenna
Lost model buzzer: JHE42B-S

---

About the Frame, I really don't know where to even begin researching,
I just know that I want something that has space for everything, including something to hold my RX antenna and GPS at the back.


About the Motors, I chose them because, well, they do have LR in their name ><, and I saw people recommending them.?
There's another thing, I saw that in their description, the recommended setup is 7" and 2s batteries, I ordered eight P42A li-ion cells about two weeks ago,
I can spot weld them into 2S no issues if that'll be the better option.


About the ESCs, I love the idea of separated ESCs, after having issues with three 4in1 ESCs in the past, I loved that I could replace one of them instead of four each time there's a problem, but I believe that I shouldn't expect issues from a LR build when it comes to amp draw and things like that.. right?
Right now, I have four HAKRC blheli_32 35A ESCs, that I need to check if they are working after my recent crash,
I checked for continuity between their pads and everything seemed normal, but I did have continuity in my FC and as a result in my PDB,
I have one spare ESC that is guaranteed(if it's not DOA) to be good.


About the FC, I am very affected by Joshua Bardwell and his recommendations, and so I found the Matek F722-SE through his website.
I love that fact that it has an F7 processor in it, barometer, dual gyros, PDB, many UARTS and support for iNav(which I think I'll want).
I'll want my entire build to work better with my GPS, after suffering with the bn-220,
making my quad drift 2000 feet after enabling GPS rescue without recovering(not a joke), as well as other issues, isn't on my bucket list.
I'll want to have better altitude, compass and general coordinates readings, which gets me to the next part.


About the GPS, I chose it because sircolin recommended it to me, and I did a little research, and it looks good.
I like the fact that it has a compass built in, and Matek has been recommended everywhere I looked, so that's that.


About the PDB, I think that's coming with the FC, so nothing to say about that one.


About the Camera, I am flying analog, and I want to have a good looking picture for my long-range flying, I won't really care for a little more latency as I'm cruising the skies,
and so, I'm thinking about the Caddx Ratel (again, heavily affected by JB's website), but I don't know if it would be too big for a long range frame?
About almost a year ago, I planned my first FPV quad setup, and I was told that the Caddx Ratel won't fit the TBS source one frame which I had, but I still felt unsure about that,
that's why I'm kinda unsure about that.

About the VTX, that one is tough,
because on the RX side I have the VAS Pepperbox Xtreme & VAS Ion Pro, both 5.8ghz RHCP, ordered directly from Video Aerial Systems, and arriving probably tommorow,
so when the Skyzone Cobra X finally arrives in the mail, I'll be fine for the receiving end of the video feed.
as for the transmitting end of the video feed, the only VTX I ever tinkered with(building wise) was the AKK FX2 ultimate,
and if I'll have to make a guess as for what I'll need.. maybe the Rush Tiny Tank? JB's given Banggood link suggests that it's discontinued, so I'm not sure.
What I do know, is that I'd rather get something else besides the TBS Unify Pro32 5G8, because it's sooooo pricey.


About the VTX antenna, after watching this informative comparison video between an original TBS Triumph vs a cheap clone,
I decided to get myself a whole bunch of clones, long cable ones.
I think they work fine, I have managed to fly 8200 feet away with only minor video issues, the only limiting factors were my battery, stock EV800D antennas,
and that it wasn't exactly a long range quad ><.
I still have about 6 of them left, so I think I'm good.


About the Props, I have some sets of

• Dalprop Cyclone T5046
  
• Dalprop Cyclone T5045
  
• Dalprop Cyclone T5040
  
• Gemfan 51466
  

These are for freestyle and multi-purpose FPV I believe, in addition to those, I have 8 pairs of Gemfan 5126, which are bi-blade props, waiting for me at the local post office.
I ordered them specifically for efficiency, I thought at the time that they are great for long range flying, but I'm now seeing props that are 5020,
and I'm not 100% sure that it was the better choice for my intentions.


About the Receiver, I have the R9M 2019 module, and 2 r9mm non-ota receivers,
all flashed to the latest firmware of ExpressLRS, because of reliability issues with the original frsky's firmware.
After experiencing a quad with an r9mm module,
and another quad with an r9 slim+ (which ironicly, I've lost on a mountain 650 feet away from me, and learned the hard way to equip every quad with a lost model buzzer),
I can safely say that it really doesn't matter, and the r9mm is perfectly enough for me.


About the Receiver antenna, just like receiver itself, I think that's enough for me purposes.


About the Lost model buzzer, nope, won't fly a quad long range, medium range, or even out of LOS range without one, learned that the hard way.
found an affordable one, the JHE42B-S, it's not that loud, no way it's 100db as advertised,
but it's enough and it helped me find a fallen quad(thanks bn-220) 600 meters away from me.
The only downside is, that I had to get REALLY close in order to hear the buzzer, took me an hour of searching with my stock EV800D directional antenna in order to find it,
but it's probably also my fault, because when I activate the buzzer manually, it's 2-3 times quieter then if it activated automatically via loss of power.
Bottom line is, that if I depend on that buzzer, I either find a way to make it the loudest it can be when flipping an AUX switch manually, or I plan an auto-eject-on-crash mechanism for the battery, in order to generate an audible sound from the buzzer, instead of the pathetic screeching I was trying to find for an hour. Sorry, it was a long hour.

---

In summary:

I think that's all, took me almost two hours to write wow haha, hopefully I haven't left anything out, and if I did just ask me

and if your could give me directions to information, I'm all about learning more and more.


Thank you for reading!

Under [I want] I noticed you mentioned [25-40 minutes] and [handle winds] and from my experience (i have not ventured outside of Li-Po yet)......

I feel safe to say that from my experience, a 5” Long Range quad is probably going to max out before 25 minutes of flight times. Also, due to lightweight (requirement for true long range/long flight time) your quad will most likely not withstand much wind.

In fact, to achieve your 25 minute flight times, you might have to encounter and/or calculate your local wind in depth. In other words, I typically have to fly my quads around 8-10am and after 6pm due to winds. Typically when I encounter 5mph winds I dont have to pay extreme detailed attention to which way to fly and how this will affect my entire projection.

VTX, for long range, I would suggest 800-1w+ power. Rush tank ultimate, tbs hv32, tbs unify Evo, rush tank Solo, AKK x2 ultimate, and only a few others fall in this category. For goggle antennas I would suggest 2 pepper boxes, 1 pepper box and 1 helical antenna.

I have Bn-220 and it seems fishy at times, but I’m extremely careful and have yet to lose a quad. I do dislike the RTH not work properly... I think you should invest for the top end GPS, and when you find the best one... let me know, I plan on upgrading all my GPS’s.

I do not fly with any buzzer, I have lost my quads, temporarily, and the way I have figured best to find the quad is to use a directional antenna. I always pack my 3-turn helical and 5-turn helical. When I drop a quad, and at times I did not set the DVR, I use my antennas to point the direction I need to go. I then drop my VTX from top power, down one and point my antennas again..... walk closer, turn. Down the power. Point my antenna, turn down the power (25mW) and eventually I am within feet.

Hope this works or helps some.

(12-Apr-2021, 06:16 AM)luispequeno Wrote: Under [I want] I noticed you mentioned [25-40 minutes] and [handle winds] and from my experience (i have not ventured outside of Li-Po yet)......

I feel safe to say that from my experience, a 5” Long Range quad is probably going to max out before 25 minutes of flight times. Also, due to lightweight (requirement for true long range/long flight time) your quad will most likely not withstand much wind.

In fact, to achieve your 25 minute flight times, you might have to encounter and/or calculate your local wind in depth. In other words, I typically have to fly my quads around 8-10am and after 6pm due to winds. Typically when I encounter 5mph winds I dont have to pay extreme detailed attention to which way to fly and how this will affect my entire projection.

VTX, for long range, I would suggest 800-1w+ power. Rush tank ultimate, tbs hv32, tbs unify Evo, rush tank Solo, AKK x2 ultimate, and only a few others fall in this category. For goggle antennas I would suggest 2 pepper boxes, 1 pepper box and 1 helical antenna.

I have Bn-220 and it seems fishy at times, but I’m extremely careful and have yet to lose a quad. I do dislike the RTH not work properly... I think you should invest for the top end GPS, and when you find the best one... let me know, I plan on upgrading all my GPS’s.

I do not fly with any buzzer, I have lost my quads, temporarily, and the way I have figured best to find the quad is to use a directional antenna. I always pack my 3-turn helical and 5-turn helical. When I drop a quad, and at times I did not set the DVR, I use my antennas to point the direction I need to go. I then drop my VTX from top power, down one and point my antennas again..... walk closer, turn. Down the power. Point my antenna, turn down the power (25mW) and eventually I am within feet.

Hope this works or helps some.

The battery alone weighs around 270g~ for 4.2A 4S, and I haven't used Li-ion yet too, but I think it would really help my flight time, beyond whatever a Lipo can do.

Do you think I should go for a 7" quad for long range? Or even as low as 4?
I have seen all these BNF micro 4" quads for long range, and I didn't like how they all have a cheap GPS and an f4 processor.

Thanks for the VTX suggestions, I'll make a comparison between them and choose the best one fitted for the job(and wallet).
As for the antennas, I think the pepperbox xtreme should do the job without a helical?
I am not planning for extreme long range beyond 10km, thats too scary, but somewhere along 5-10km is my current goal.

I have high expectations from the Matek M8Q-5883, hopefully it would live up to them, and I can't imagine flying long range without a buzzer, what happens if the battery gets ejected and the quad falls in a bush >.
But I liked your way of thinking when it does have power, searching with a helical, I'll look into it.

Thanks for the reply!

GF5126 should be excellent for long range.
2004 is very good motor choice.

25-40min is hard even for DJI.
Bigger.. does not necessarily mean more efficient longer range.
My 9" swinging rigid heavy 9*5*3 is empirical exanple.

A possible compromise. 6". 6026 props look very efficient.
But unlike ET5, there are no good 6" frames.

(12-Apr-2021, 11:55 AM)romangpro Wrote: GF5126 should be excellent for long range.
2004 is very good motor choice.

25-40min is hard even for DJI.
Bigger.. does not necessarily mean more efficient longer range.
My 9" swinging rigid heavy 9*5*3 is empirical exanple.

A possible compromise. 6". 6026 props look very efficient.
But unlike ET5, there are no good 6" frames.

When I watch videos of long range pilots and looking at their gear in the description, it's always a custom frame.
So because of my big 4.2A cells, I should go bigger than 5"?
I've never actually seen 6" frames for sale, and if you say that there are no good 6" frames, what's the point?
Probably 7" then?

I think 7" is the way to go, consistent speed and the ability to hold a big battery, whether it's gonna be 2S or 4S.

I am going looking at some frames on the market, they are all around 140g~, as for the motors they support.. that's something I'll have to figure out how to find out.

If someone can point and tell me what to watch or where to read, that'll be very appreciated. I'm a very quick learner and I'm very excited about this.

Let me explain.
5" toothpick like ET5, you can build 150-180g.
With right motors and prop, very efficient.

If you need to carry 100g+ GoPro and/or 4S 18650, then 7" is the only way.

The 18650 pack is like 250g+ and comically huge on 4". Its "doable", but you will really feel like flying cement truck. 7" can handle more weight. Maybe 5S?

(12-Apr-2021, 08:53 PM)romangpro Wrote: Let me explain.
5" toothpick like ET5, you can build 150-180g.
With right motors and prop, very efficient.

If you need to carry 100g+ GoPro and/or 4S 18650, then 7" is the only way.

The 18650 pack is like 250g+ and comically huge on 4". Its "doable", but you will really feel like flying cement truck. 7" can handle more weight. Maybe 5S?

I'm won't be putting a GoPro on my build.

I read about the toothpick today actually, because I wondered what you meant by ET5 (thought it was a 5" frame at first).
I don't think I'll go with a toothpick design, I do want to take advantage of the P42A Li-ion cells, and have more space in the build.

I figured that it would be too big haha, I couldn't find any info about 4" quads with big batteries.
Why 5S? I'm gonna have 8 Li-ion cells, so I'm aiming for 4S or 2S(probably 4S because I think I'll need the extra power).

Hi SaHaRzZz,

Here is a thought.   Go with a 7 inch frame. Personally, I think those 2004 1650 Kv 2S (only) motors are fine {I am looking at them myself for a 7 inch build}, however, I am not sure that they will lift a very heavy craft. Consequently, I have 2 different 7 inch frames; Racer-X Megabat 7" that weighs 66 grams and a TBS Source Aureo 7" that weighs 49.5 grams. Both of these frames are  comparable in weight to many 5 inch frames. I intend to do a 7 inch build with each one.

Here is the thing about using a 7 inch frame. You can also use smaller props. A light weight 7 inch build should do pretty good with 5 inch props since the quad won't really be any heavier {if as heavy} as a 5 inch freestyle. You could use 7 inch, 6 inch, or 5 inch props. That way you could still use the 5 inch just for fun or to leverage the "value" in them. Use 7 inch props when you really want to do long range. In fact, record the data, the comparison might be very interesting. Anyway...just a thought 

Well, the Megabat 7 is sort of a toothpick design, but that doesn't bother me. 
I will be using the iFlight BEAST 55A AIO with T-Motor Trick 2306 3400 kv in one of them. Yeah, it will still be over 250 grams.

Don't forget to do a BUILD thread. I am interested to see this come together.     

(13-Apr-2021, 01:17 AM)iFly4rotors Wrote: Hi SaHaRzZz,

Here is a thought.   Go with a 7 inch frame. Personally, I think those 2004 1650 Kv 2S (only) motors are fine {I am looking at them myself for a 7 inch build}, however, I am not sure that they will lift a very heavy craft. Consequently, I have 2 different 7 inch frames; Racer-X Megabat 7" that weighs 66 grams and a TBS Source Aureo 7" that weighs 49.5 grams. Both of these frames are  comparable in weight to many 5 inch frames. I intend to do a 7 inch build with each one.

Here is the thing about using a 7 inch frame. You can also use smaller props. A light weight 7 inch build should do pretty good with 5 inch props since the quad won't really be any heavier {if as heavy} as a 5 inch freestyle. You could use 7 inch, 6 inch, or 5 inch props. That way you could still use the 5 inch just for fun or to leverage the "value" in them. Use 7 inch props when you really want to do long range. In fact, record the data, the comparison might be very interesting. Anyway...just a thought 

Well, the Megabat 7 is sort of a toothpick design, but that doesn't bother me. 
I will be using the iFlight BEAST 55A AIO with T-Motor Trick 2306 3400 kv in one of them. Yeah, it will still be over 250 grams.

Don't forget to do a BUILD thread. I am interested to see this come together.     

Take a look at this thrust test done by Gal Kermer,
it seems like the motors are very underpowered for using 2S.

3S seems to be strong enough, although it'll probably be on 90% throttle for just hovering.
Nothing about using a 4S with 7" props on the test results, my guess is that they'll make it so hovering will be around 70-75% throttle.

I'll probably use 5 inch props for testing, but not for an actual flight, just like you said.

I've been eyeing the TBS Source Aureo 7" Frame today, but I can't find a retailer to buy it from. the shipping methods from TBS to me are so overpriced it's ridiculous.
And that AIO you got there, WOW, 8.8g for all of that seems sweet, and it's so expensive as well haha.

Fortunately, in my country it's allowed to fly UAVs over 250 grams, and I'm surrounded by open fields and nature, so when it finally comes to it, I think I should be good

Hi SaHaRzZz,

First, I think you got the wrong link. I clicked on it, but got a "MediaFire" website instead of Gal Kermer. Try again.

Yeah, I know it seems like underpowered for a 7 inch, but the specs indicate a 7 inch prop. I will likely try the FPV Cycle 2204 3450 Kv motors first. I often wonder about some of the specs for FPV quad components. Even the FPV Cycle motors were designed for 3 inch props. Very Interesting, but I  am going to try them anyway. Hey, I already have the motors so why not. If they don't work, then I will try something different.

I have been known to overprop my motors. I have a nice little build running 1303 5000 kv motors with 4 inch props. 
Just for grins, I tried 4 inch props on 1103 7000 kv motors. This actually worked fine, but didn't improve anything over the 3 inch props.  I had reached the point of diminishing returns. But hey, it was fun...and...it did serve to prove a point...you CAN overprop the motors a bit. Well, to be fair this works for slow endurance, but would never do for freestyle or racing...just not enough power for the stunts. 

The TBS frame is available in the US, but then that doesn't help you.

Now, let me tell you about a frame option that I am working on that might interest you. I have some purchased replacement arms from a 5 inch quad and I know the FPV Cycle motors will fit them. I intend to fabricate custom central frame plates...maybe 1mm carbon fiber or a high strength, light weight plastic. I can design and adjust the specifics to get the structure and weight that I want {within reason of course}. I think that I can come in under 50 grams...maybe about 35-40 grams. If I can, that will offset the 20 grams each motors. 7 inch props are heavy, too. I would like to end up with a total dry weight of about 150 grams...or so...as close as I can get. 

Yeah, the BEAST FC is quite something. I know, it was expensive, but I just had to have one. I could probably get away with 45A, but I just couldn't resist the 55A rating for the build with the 2306 motors...they are BIG motors. This build will likely be the Megabat 7 frame because it looks to be quite a bit stronger than the TBS frame. 

So, potentially, I have three 7 inch builds in my future. Yeah, I need to get these done and in the air before "D" day...then it would be illegal to fly them    Kinda might be already, but I think there won't be enforcement until the grace period ends.

(12-Apr-2021, 08:42 AM)SaHaRzZz Wrote: The battery alone weighs around 270g~ for 4.2A 4S, and I haven't used Li-ion yet too, but I think it would really help my flight time, beyond whatever a Lipo can do.

Do you think I should go for a 7" quad for long range? Or even as low as 4?
I have seen all these BNF micro 4" quads for long range, and I didn't like how they all have a cheap GPS and an f4 processor.

Thanks for the VTX suggestions, I'll make a comparison between them and choose the best one fitted for the job(and wallet).
As for the antennas, I think the pepperbox xtreme should do the job without a helical?
I am not planning for extreme long range beyond 10km, thats too scary, but somewhere along 5-10km is my current goal.

I have high expectations from the Matek M8Q-5883, hopefully it would live up to them, and I can't imagine flying long range without a buzzer, what happens if the battery gets ejected and the quad falls in a bush >.
But I liked your way of thinking when it does have power, searching with a helical, I'll look into it.

Thanks for the reply!

With that big of a battery.... and previous message I see posted on here, I would try a 7” build.

I have recently purchased a 7” TBS frame on RDQ.  Along with Emax eco ii 2807 1500kv and I’m going to do a first flight with my 1550 Lipo.  Then I plan on buying a 5s Long Range battery... the 18650 style.

I know my motors and frame are going to be a heavy build.. but I prefer my quads heavy because they tend to cut through the wind (yes, it makes for a shorter flight... but any opposing forces are going to reduce your flight times anyway).  Also, I have a GoPro and I dont intend on making it a ‘naked’ light version mods or anything.  I also prefer having a gps, powerful vtx, and large antenna.  I tend to put lumi-skids on my quads and ultimately I end up with a heavy quad.

The pepper box has a great fame for being a true long range antenna.  You should def. have plenty of range, i suppose.

Last, you mention ‘what if the battery is ejected’ — I had it happen to me twice.  After that I first used 3M dual lock velcro... one on the battery, one on the frame... along with double lipo straps.  I have yet to ever have a battery ejected again.  I have now switched over to that ummagrip, but in all honesty, I prefer the 3M DUAL LOCK velcro— it works.  And you only eject batteries when you are doing freestyle flights.. when you do long range, there is no Acro flips while 3km out LOL

I use Velcro on my battery and top plate then strap it down.

i builded a longrange/endurance quad for a buddy with the bh lr2004.
it was a 5inch on a 20g hyperbola frame, with a goku 20x20 aio, unify nano, nano racer2 and a bn180, on lightweight gf5125x3. without a top.. no space at all...
150g dry weight. we got 30min flighttime on a liion 4s 3000mah.

you wrote you wont go radical for flighttime but liion is pure this. we had some okish throttle authority on 5inch, even on liion batteries.

about your need of space, you will need to go 7inch. if you go for 7inch the freestyle ability will be gone aswell about throttleauthority.

the aero and the bh lr2004 seems a nice combination to me. the weight of the rotor will be one of the most important things for flighttime. there is a 4g carbon biblade available.
you would be able to run 4s on the bh on lightweight 7inch, i believe about weight and efficiency level. 2s 2p would give better flighttimes, probably even 3s 1p could be the the better configuration.
if you like some freestyle ability, you would need a good 3-4s lipo.


the review of kremer is usless, sry. it was overloaded with the 4s liion and the main issue might be the frame and vibrations.


to get a true thing between lr and freestyle ability, heavy 7inch on huge motors :-) but i believe its even less expensive to build a 5inch freestyler and a ultralight 7inch than one heavy powerfull thing between.

Hi,
go with a 7" frame ... you have more room for airflow, GoPro, good eletronic components and a biiiig big battery.
More battery relative to AUW->more flight time. More stable frame->less jello. Higher AUW->less windache...

This setup (with GoPro) can do 8-10km and back @6s1p
Source One 7"
Mateksys 405-std
Tekko F3 Metal 65A
2x 1000uF/50V Panasonic lowESR
Avenger V2 2507 1300kv
HQ7030_3
Mateksys M8Q-5883
Crossfire diversity RX
IMMORTAL T
TRUERC BARDPOLE
TBS HV32
AXII 2 Long
RunCam Eagle3
6s1p 18650vtc6->15min/20km
6s2p 18650vtc6 ...
URUAV UR6 5V 110dB