Receivers. Im running 900Mhz

IMHO
Current ExpressLRS receivers.. kinda suck.

1. The WIFI OTA update.. tried like 10x. Got website. Couldnt upload... after long night of drinking, realized its gotta be like like 1ft.. arm distance.. and no interference.

2. Diversity. Only R9 Slim+ has it. Likewise in 2.4Ghz world. If you snag that 1 antenna.. no protocol wizardry is going to save you.

3. Telemetry. I enabled it in build. Left RX in basement and took radio for walk. Telemetry lost. Oh right.. gotta change to 1:16 rate.

4. Antenna situation. TX Directional Moxon. Only 1 Dipole rx antenna with blind spots. And most receivers only output 17dbm telemetry. Protocol is more resiliant, but if you go behind hill.. or far behind Moxon.. it will fail. Its not magic.

5. The whole configurator and 10min "build" is so 1999.

6. The whole 250hz/500Hz. Its like 4x what old school radios were designed for. Does it really help? Should you do it, if it means losing telemetry? Just saying.. its not simple like easy bake oven.

7. External module power. OK.. not really ExpressLRS issue, but some radio like Jumper TLite cant run >100mw reliably.

8. Some rx have tiny pads AND tiny SMD adjacent. Common.. really?

9. Love FPort 1 wire bidir? Now you always need 2 wires. 95% time its not big deal. Unless you have quirky FC where TX1 is way on other side or missing entirely. Or only RX1 is inverted SBUS.

Interesting feedback from a mere mortal. I tend to agree with your experience as a user reporting this feedback even though I have myself not payed with the system.

I was always sceptical about the hardware from these vendors who are just trying to rush a product out the door to make a quick buck with all the hype.

If we take a step back and think over all of this: The project is open source and anyone can look at the code and learn how they are making these improvements over traditional RC links.

Clearly being opensource, ELRS can make sacrifices in removing functionality to keep latency low or even quick decisions around incorporating bleeding edge technology.

I still love the idea of ELRS 2.4 on micros because SPI receivers were terrible for the most part.

Good stuff to know Roman. I’ve got the t lite and hm 2.4ghz module and focusing on my micros as the candidates of this system. The t lite was my main reason. For elrs as I wanted a smaller tx that didn’t break the bank. Like you there are some things I loathe but I will also say going to a new form factor after my qx7- well my big hands are better suited to that tx by I want to keep pushing on with the t lite and see how stable I can get my flight.

I’m actually a fan of ELRS, but I also understand that it’s not for everyone.

For me, setup wasn’t difficult- I’m a nerd. Plus, I don’t rebuild with each new rx- I just flash the working build. Same settings, same binding phrase. Other than updating the tx module initially, I haven’t bothered updating it again as newer firmware versions haven’t yet offered any additional features that I need.

Biggest thing for me was affordability- ELRS is *signficantly* cheaper than crossfire or some of the other options.

Next biggest improvement for me was range- given that I was using frsky/flysky stuff prior to this, it’s a significant improvement. ELRS rx setup is easier to me than trying to downgrade the firmware on an xm+ to make the damn thing bind with my tx.

It definitely has its downsides, I wouldn’t recommend it to people who don’t like to fiddle. I don’t have experience with crossfire or the other more expensive options so I can’t compare them- but I can say that the ELRS discord help group is incredibly helpful and responsive and can walk most anyone through any problems they’re having with it.

To each their own.

Yes, ExpressLRS was a hassle to do initial setup.

Overall, I like it.

Being able to upgrade my 2018 ancient R9M was great. The cross compatibility is HUGE win.

And the Binding phrase works like magic. But you cant mix with normal binding.

Most of my complaints are product specific and physical limitations. For example.. If you want super tiny 1g receiver, you must accept tiny crowded pads.

I guess real disappointment is the overall flying experience. Better goggles you feel it. Stronger motors.. you feel it. Better camera.. you see it.

Better rx.. it just flies exactly the same.

Even if it technically can go 30km+.. the quad cant. And I rarely even *NEED* 1km.. or even 0.5km.. it is still a long walk of shame! You know like 99% time its going to be tree branch or clipped a fence.

Maybe it gives some pilots more confidence... mine is still in the mail.

First, Thank You Roman for an honest opinion and expressing the downside,
which, by the way most people don't, but there are always downsides.

I have been following this protocol ...Ok, here are my thoughts....

This product is just too "Young" for my blood, it is still immature and NOT stable enough for me.

One of the first and biggest issues for me is the need to have a specific, or rather higher than a
certain version, of OpenTX. I like my Jumper T16 the way it is. I have never upgraded the firmware.
More to that story, I don't intend to. 

Now, if my next transmitter comes shipped from the factory with a version of OpenTX that the
Express LRS will work with, well then we will see. I don't mind upgrading the receivers so much,
but I am NOT messing with my transmitter...at least not at this point.

Next, the firmware changes by the hour which, in my opinion, is just not stable. Man, this stuff
is not even in beta; if it was, they wouldn't have to change it every day. A Beta product is the
final testing phase before product release...and it ain't there yet. 

Well all of this is fine for a lot of folks, but just NOT me. I will wait until it matures and stabilizes 
before it will be a serious consideration. In fact, I went through Oscar's  article on installing
Express LRS and that process just turned me off to it, period.

When it gets to the point where I can buy a module and some receivers, plug in the module and
wire up the receivers, set up a model, bind it, and fly it...THEN...I might be interested. Yeah, it
has to work with my transmitter without all the OpenTX upgrading and such.

Currently, I am running FrSky products...not because they are great, but...all of my BNF quads
came with FrSky receivers, mostly XM+. In fact, I find that the XM+ is almost always an option
in a BNF, but most others are not, although some BNF quads now have a TBS Crossfire option. 
Consequently, I have purchased more XM+ receivers and never had an issue with them...
yeah I have NEVER flashed any of them. Just "Plug and Play" with No issues. 

For long range I am running FrSky R9 gear...again, not that it is the greatest, but when FrSky
shifted to ACCESS, I got a whole lot of gear at fire sale prices so I just couldn't resist. Guess what,
it all works...and...works with my Jumper transmitter without any upgrades. I have picked up a whole
bunch of used R9MM receivers for peanuts and many will need to be re-flashed back to an original
firmware, but I can handle that when the time comes. For now, I just put a receiver in a quad, bind it, 
and fly it. 

If I didn't have the R9 gear...OR...if I was just starting out, then I would be buying TBS Crossfire,
hands down, period. The Crossfire gear is well mature, stable, robust, it is easy to install, it just
works, it is trusted and reliable, and that is the gear that the true long range pilots use. Does it
cost more, well sure. On the other hand, tell me what in this hobby doesn't cost. Right. All of the
really good stuff costs, it just does. I would trust TBS Crossfire with my $ 300-500 quad more than
any other long range protocol. Guess what, I wouldn't have to upgrade the firmware on my Jumper.

When it comes to an RC protocol, I want something that works and is not a hassle.

I view this like a fire extinguisher... I want one that will WORK when I need it, rather than a cheap
one that might or might NOT work when I need it. My vote goes for trustable functionality and
ease of installation over cost. Additionally, the TBS Crossfire gear appears to be less expensive than it was.


But hey, I am, after all, a bit eccentric. 

ExpressLRS does work. And surprisingly well.

But there is weird dilema.
New users will almost always start with FrSky. Its what all the BNF have.
But for pilots of 10+ quads.. ExpressLRS has great benefits and receivers are cheap. But am I really going to upgrade my whole fleet?

or spend money on 4K camera, new whoop, bigger motors for 9" or replace old batteries.

I haven't used ELRS as I am 100% invested in CRSF and it has NEVER let me down so it is hard to want to switch.

But I have been paying attention to it, and I agree with some of the comments above. as iFly4Rotors said: It is still a very immature development. I have no doubt if they can keep this energy up they have now it will grow to be a very good protocol on both the software and hardware sides.

But with it being so new there are still 'teething' problems. I will continue to watch it with interest, and I hope they get all of this sorted out.

But personally I will be sticking to Crossfire as it is already in all of my quads, it's simple(a new RX auto-binds and updates itself via your TX), it is STABLE, and I don't even have to think about failsafe's.

I hope ELRS can get itself to a similar point. Better quality hardware, a stable release without constant updates, and a simplified installation.

I'm in the same camp. Since I swapped over to Crossfire almost two years ago it has been 100% reliable for me and I haven't had a single fallsafe (knock on wood), so I have now built up my full trust in the TBS ecosystem which "just works". If I were to jump ship to ExpressLRS I would have to start all over again building up my trust in the ELRS ecosystem, and I've already seen more reports of failsafes than I am comfortable with at this point in time, which in fairness is probably more down to sub par hardware than the firmware, but nevertheless unexpected teething problems do still seem to exist with ELRS. I also still have enough spare unused Crossfire receivers in my parts bin to keep me going for a while with any new builds I might do. Personally I would only experiment with the 2.4GHz variant of ELRS for micro quads (as an alternative to 2.4GHz ACCST) where 900MHz antennas are just too big and cumbersome for such small quads.

I can't wait for radios to come built-in with ExpressLRS. As a beginner, I started with FrSky since it was the most common with BnF micro-drones. When I started building my own drones, I quickly realized the nightmare that FrSky with multiple versions, ACCST vs ACCESS brought. It wasn't easy to downgrade with Jumper T-lite. As soon as I could get ExpressLRS on Jumper T-lite, I switched.

Compared to FrSky, the experience has been much better. Is it perfect? I don't think so. Is Crossfire better? Most probably. However, for a beginner like me this is a nice experience with added bonus of being cheaper than FrSky. My only investment is in FrSky receivers and AIO boards with SPI FrSky which I am more than happy to replace.

Just to clarify, I was NOT talking about a transmitter having an internal Express LRS circuitry. There are Express LRS modules that fit a JR bay and that is all you need...or that is all you should need, not a new transmitter. 

What I was talking about was what version of Open TX you have to have on the transmitter to run Express LRS. Plus, when the next version of Open TX or Edge or What ever comes out...will Express LRS code be "upgraded" so that you have to run the newest version of Open TX...THAT is what I am talking about. How about having some backward compatibility for older versions of Open TX. You should be able to use Express LRS without upgrading the firmware on your transmitter; it should just plug in and work, period.

From what I can tell TBS Crossfire runs on pretty much all versions of Open TX and even the Jumper TX fork. THAT is what I am talking about. I just don't believe that I should have to upgrade my transmitter firmware in order to run a new protocol. Period. That said, if I ever get a new, RadioMaster, transmitter then Express LRS better run on what ever version of Open TX is installed or I am still out of the game. I simply am not upgrading my transmitter just to use an RC protocol. Especially one that is not mature.

For now, I have enough R9 gear to last for some time. Also, I wire both the XM+ and the R9MM receivers as SBUS. I wire a connector to the FC on the SBUS pads. That way, I can swap between the two by just unplugging one and plugging in the other, No fuss, No muss. If and when I decide to move from my R9 gear, it will be to TBS Crossfire. It is solid, reliable, and proven. It just works.

For shorter ranges, I will just stay with XM+ which has proven a solid performer for the smaller places that I fly. In my perspective, there is no "middle" range...there is short range and there is long range. When I venture beyond short range, I want that RC protocol to be reliable to any point I decide to fly and not hit another "end of the road" mark and get a failsafe or just lose control.

2.4Ghz vs 900Mhz. There are serious pro/con for some use cases.
900Mhz only has bandwidth for 5-6 pilots. But MUCH better penetration through trees and walls.

Crossfire is 900Mhz. It also uses Lora CSS. And supports 150Hz. It is very mature, well supported and very reliable. Very few users will switch to ExpressLRS.

ExpressLRS provides the most benefit to:
- SPI tiny whoops. The tiny ceramic antenna is magic.
- R9 and Ghost users who can flash a much more qidely compatible protocol.
- big wing pilots .. where concerns of 30km vs 40km apply.
- racers where the 500Hz might mean something

and ofcourse.
the FrSky crowd.

FrSky is a pain. notorious firmware update. inverted micro soldering. Lack of telemetry on $30 XM+. ACCESS.. and all the range/failsafe issues of 2.4Ghz that NO POWER mod can truely fix.

What needs to improve for ExpressLRS adoption?
1. Just more time on market.
2. Whoops and Cinelog BNF with ExpressLRS
3. A Tango2 type native radio.
4. Simple drag n drop mature "final" firmware.. no builds and build options.
5. Better hardware??

Pretty spot on.

Roman, you are spot on !  

If I could buy the module and receiver,
drop it into my Jumper T16,
setup a model, and
it would just work;
then I would give it a try.
That is where this should be.

It is funny, I don't like FrSky for how they have played the game...all of this firmware "flashing" and protocol
changing is just not right. On the other hand, all of the FrSky gear that I have just seems to work. As
mentioned, I have not yet flashed anything nor modified the firmware on anything...all of my FrSky gear
is just as it came from the factory...and...it all works with my Jumper T16.

At some point, I will move to another long range protocol, but...today is not that day...and Express LRS
is Not that protocol. None of these newer RC protocols seem to be as good as TBC Crossfire, so that is
where I will end up. If I was new to the game, that is where I would be.

I dont want to scare most people from ExpressLRS.
It works. Its great. You can "sometimes" use it out of the box.

The list I made is not because I am setting up just 1 quad... but a fleet.
And not flashing and setting up just 1 radio but several.

My ExpressLRS experience last 2 months is not typical. I had pretty much hardest route.
1. 900Mhz.
2. Modifying Jumper TLite.
3. Flashing R9 - bootloader etc.
4. BetaFPV Nano bad batch.
5. QX7 baud rate.
6. Didn't realize cannot disable inverter on RX pad.
7. Bad USB-C cable prevented flashing BetaFPV TX.
8. Super bad WIFI range on RX modules.