Well I went a little too hard after some encouragement juice today.  This WAS a GepRC Thinking P16.

I'd like to move all  these components over to a new frame.  I was considering the GepRC Rock lite frame?  Obviously I'd have get new props, not sure about the motors?

Anyone have some other really cool suggestions?  This has a Caddx Vista with a Polar Nano camera.

Hi Fiveflat,

Well Mate, you have options.  
Is it only canopy that is broken or is the whooped main frame plate also broken.

1) Buy a new frame from GEPRC.  
            The canopy is $ 3.00 USD
            The Bottom plate is $ 4.00 USD

Since the Thinking P16 uses standard 4 bolt 1103 motors, you have plenty of
frame options. 

If you want to stay with a "Whoop" frame, the you might consider the following:

The iFlight Alpha A85 is a nice frame, has a canopy to fit the Vista unit, and is
pretty durable. This frame fits 2 inch props. The 1103 8000Kv motors will work 
just fine; I have 1202 6000Kv motors on my Tiny-Black-85 which I fly with both
2S and 3S batteries. 

What you need to watch for is that the frame or canopy {depending on the frame}
has a location or space for the HD Vista unit. 

Here's some interesting information about me...  I'm an impatient MFr...  I love forums and I really appreciate the help and suggestions I get here.  But I move too fast haha.
It wasn't just the canopy.  The frame was destroyed beyond repair.  I thought I had destroyed the Caddx Vista as well but it turns out it was just the plug into the back of the camera - it got dislodged...
Sooo...  after impatient research and a likely purchase in haste, after all I DO NOT have the patience to wait for parts or a frame from China, I settled on the Armatton Tadpole frame.
Am I being nieve in believing that the description on pyrodrone's website is truly the frame designers words? Perhaps. But he says he runs 1103 8000kv motors.  I have also read that this frame will accommodate a Caddx Vista...  So a new frame and some 2.5" props are ordered.  Now I wait (impatiently)
I know they are not the same frame type but I'm looking forward to building this.  (Is this really considered a 'build'?)
I wasn't very fond of the P16 frame for a number of reasons. First reason -  I went with a 450mah battery instead of the 300 it called for (and I'm really glad I did) I followed Mr. Camps lead on that one and cut away the battery cage and just strapped the 450 to the bottom.  I've learned that I really dislike bottom mounted batteries.
Second, my son has a Tinyhawk 2 freestyle and I'm a little envious of that frame and it's performance - so I moved away from this "whoop" frame.
Third - I really love how this frame looks and everything I've read and youtube'd about it...

I am guessing you got the Whoop board adapter for it. I am currently doing a build with that frame with the whoop adapter and ran into a snag. The adapter blocks where the usb port goes through the frame. My fix was to mount the FC upside down, but I don't know if you can do that with your setup.
Here's a pic marking in yellow where the usb port is supposed to go through...

Hi Fiveflat,

First, YES, this would be a BUILD thread. Please start a thread and add
posts as you progress. That way, we can follow along. Plus, it will keep
everything together and will better channel questions and answers. It
is going to be interesting to see how this BUILD comes together.

My question is:  where or how will the Vista Unit fit on that frame 

I also like the looks of the Armattan Tadpole frame, however, from the builds
that I have seen, this is a very "tight" frame to work with. Plus, the base plate
does not come standard to accept the whoop format AIO. Yes, an adapter plate 
can be purchased...or fabricated if you are handy like that. The only downside 
to an additional plate is that it reduces the space between the top and bottom 
plates which is already tight. 

Then you have the issue of mounting the Vista unit...maybe another adapter
plate. OR, you could cut a custom top plate, make it wide enough for the Vista
mounting pattern, drill holes, and mount it to that custom top plate. This is how
the Vista unit is mounted in the GEPRC Phantom / SMART HD Freestyle. 


The GEPRC Phantom HD / Smart HD 2.5 inch frame {Pyrodrone link} is 
designed for both the 25.5 x 25.5 whoop AIO AND a Vista unit. I know that you
have already puchased a frame, but this frame might be an option if the Tadpole
frame doesn't work out. 

As for the 1103 8000 Kv motors...they should work just fine. My GEPRC Phantom
has those motors and I run it with a GNB 3S 1100 mAh battery...get about 16-17
minutes of fly time. 

Anyway... start a build thread and away we go... 

(07-Nov-2022, 01:39 PM)iFly4rotors Wrote: My question is:  where or how will the Vista Unit fit on that frame 

I also like the looks of the Armattan Tadpole frame, however, from the builds
that I have seen, this is a very "tight" frame to work with. Plus, the base plate
does not come standard to accept the whoop format AIO. Yes, an adapter plate 
can be purchased...or fabricated if you are handy like that. The only downside 
to an additional plate is that it reduces the space between the top and bottom 
plates which is already tight. 

It's do-able with a 25x25 AIO FC. One example which uses a custom 3D printed adapter can be found on Rotorbuilds HERE.

There is also the option of removing the heatsinks from the Vista and installing it as a naked unit. It is only with the heatsinks fitted that gives the Vista a 20x20mm mounting pattern. The naked boards themselves without a heatsink attached have a 25x25mm mounting pattern. There's an example on Thingiverse HERE.

Other Armattan Tadpole builds that have a fully cased Vista along with a traditional 20x20mm stack can be found on Rotorbuilds HERE.

I opted for the Tadpole HD after reading brettbrandon's build thread and a couple nightmare stories on rotorbuilds. The HD will accommodate the Vista and hopefully will accommodate the FC beneath it.  Now the 1103-8000kv motors will be a different story on this frame.  I should be able to run 2.5inch props with these motors but the frame being an extra 8 grams?  well - we'll see I suppose.  
I'll convert this to a build thread like was suggested by iFly4rotors and get started putting it together once the parts arrive.

Got the P16 completely stripped and set aside incase there are some screws or parts of the frame I can "modify" to help my plan all work out.

The Tadpole HD comes in at 26 grams.  That's TWICE the weight of that GepRC Phantom HD frame.  I can probably save 12g if I go naked with my Caddx but I rather not go through that trouble.  I'm still a pretty new flyer so I'm not doing any pissed off hornet sbang (or whatever they call it) flying anyway.


So just for the fun of it, my plan currently is to take this you see here and just fit it into the Tapole HD - yes even with the 1.6 props.  After all this is a hobby - I have full intentions of going to the 2.5" props anyway (and willing to maybe even buy new 1204 motors if I have to.)  But I'm curious how it will perform and it'll teach me something along the way.

After doing a little research on the Tadpole I got to missing the Thinking P16 before it was fully gone.  I got a new Geprc frame and resurrected the Thinking P16 already.  But I'm continuing with the Tadpole HD build at this point.
   

Now as far as the Tadpole HD goes, it's going to be a very straight forward build.  Nothing extraordinary, however it will be my FIRST build from scratch.

Here's the frame all layed out 
   

That went together pretty easily.  At least the basic bottom plate anyway.  Ready for electronics:
   

As far as electronics go, I'm going with:

BetaFPV F405 20A AIO
GepRC GR1204 5000kv motors
HQ Prop T65MMx3
Runcam link Wasp camera
I have a Frsky Archer RS laying around I'll put in it for now. I don't think the BetaFPV FC will support F.Port so it's kind of a waste to put in this.

So got all the electronics finally and decided to get started on it.
Here's the FC ready to go in:
   

Why stop there?  The night is still young.  Let's get it all mounted:
   

After mounting the motors, I realized I wanted to pull the FC and solder the connectors to the board so  I can plug the motors in instead of soldering them
   

It seems there is no rhyme or reason as to why some people screw down their 1.5mm props and some just press them on.  I noticed the BrettBrandon's thread about his Tiny Ape just has the props pressed on.  Then I notice some other 1.6" props are screwed down.  Any particular reason?  I would have personally screwed mine down if I had some button head screws but the big cap head screws looked a little too awkward.  Should I screw these down?
   

And here it is all put together.
   

Put it on the scale and it's 109g without battery.  I have some 3s 450mah batteries that I tested it with and it came in at 148g.  I have some 4s 550mah batteries ordered to try out.  Should be a blast either way.

I'm really surprised how little there was to do with Betaflight as far as "tuning".  Maybe I'm a little naive thinking it's 'tuned' and it flies great.  I just did a little hover flight in my office tonight.  I know I have a LOT to learn still about PID tuning so I guess that'll be my next adventure in learning.

Bring on the suggestions, comments, criticism, and everything else that goes along with it.  I'm ready to learn more!

Hi Fiveflat,

Wow!!    NICE Build.       Cool.  

To me, a build is special because you BUILT it and it is the way you want.

Right off the bat, I didn't realize that there were 2 versions of the Tadpole
frame and that the HD version has 25.5 x 25.5 mounting AND a dual, front
and rear mounting; already set up and drilled for a whoop FC board.  
Now, we are talking. 

Ah, tuning. I have built and re-build over a dozen quads, I have a few BNF 
quads, and I have yet to tune any of them. Everything that I have is on the 
default, factory, tunes. Guess what. They all fly fine. I would only tune a quad 
if there was some issue that I was trying to correct. 

Ok, I pretty much fly ANGLE (STAB) mode most of the time since I don't do
stunts and don't race. ANGLE mode suits me and I am fine with that. I do,
however, have the fly modes on a 3 postion switch so that I can switch modes
during flight when I want to experiment. What I didn't know until recently, is 
that ANGLE mode ONLY uses the default tune and ignores all of that fancy PID 
tune stuff. Now, imagine that. No need for me to tune as it would be a complete 
waste of my time especially since ALL of my default tune quads fly just fine.

By the way, I have built quads from a tiny 35mm props sized nano to a 7 inch
heavy Rescue Quad which ALL are running on the stock tune. I have heard it
said that the Betaflight tune is biased specifically for a 5 inch freestyle rig, but
it seems to work fine for me regardless of the quad size or power.

On the other hand, those who fly in ACRO mode tend to adjust the tune for
one reason or another...for propwash {which I never seem to have a problem
with} or some other characteristic of hi-performance flying. Even so, I would
always fly the quad with the stock tune first and see how it handles...then
only tune for some characteristic that needs to be adjusted, but that is just
logical to me. 

Without knowing your flying style, what you want to accomplish, and what
fly mode that you prefer to use; I would still suggest flying the thing first
to see how it handles. 

That's interesting that you said ANGLE mode ignores custom PID tuning... obviously you can adjust max angle but I never really noticed it.
Again, I'm new to FPV. I just started flying fpv about 3 weeks ago and I came over from LOS helicopters. I find myself using ANGLE mode a lot right now when I'm trying to fly gaps. I go out into my pasture and really high to practice ACRO. Find myself getting a little motion sickness. Seems to work better if I'm sitting.
I play with the simulator a lot but then I end up getting burned out on that.
Hopefully I can get a recording of the Tadpole off my goggles sometime today and I'll share.

Looks great! Congrats on your first build!

Regarding prop bolts, with smaller props it’s more personal preference- I prefer to ream out the shaft hole and bolt them on to make them easier to take off, but that does come with a weight penalty. My fat fingers struggle with taking off push on props.

Once you get to larger props, they’ll create enough thrust to go spinning off into the abyss without being bolted down.

If you lose a prop mid flight, you’ll know that you need to bolt them down. If you don’t, you’re good to go.

(15-Nov-2022, 08:37 PM)Lemonyleprosy Wrote: Looks great! Congrats on your first build!

Regarding prop bolts, with smaller props it’s more personal preference- I prefer to ream out the shaft hole and bolt them on to make them easier to take off, but that does come with a weight penalty. My fat fingers struggle with taking off push on props.

Once you get to larger props, they’ll create enough thrust to go spinning off into the abyss without being bolted down.

If you lose a prop mid flight, you’ll know that you need to bolt them down. If you don’t, you’re good to go.

Yes I've realized and answered my own question with regards to prop bolts.  I had a small crash into a bush and lost 2 props.  Was able to find them but realized why I should screw them down.
Now the reason I flew into the bush to begin with - I'm used to the very rapid response to throttle I get from the P16 and my Diatone F4.  I feel like I have to really hit the throttle exceptionally harder for reasonable results with this setup.  Is it my setup?  Is it PID tuning?  Or is it because I have 2.5" props on 5000kv motors?  I'm leaning more towards mechanical setup rather than Betaflight.  I've compared my setting between my other and they are all the same (funny these companies like Diatone and GepRC say the quads were "professionally" tuned prior to getting shipped out They appear to be basic stock config from the FC - or is that from Betaflight?).  I have motor output at 100 so I would assume I can't turn up the motor response anymore?  maybe I should try 3" props?
Unfortunately I don't have any video recordings either.  I never setup up the Runcam Link properly in Betaflight.  Which also explains why I didn't have OSD either.  I simply had to turn on "MSP".  This probably also explains why my video quality wasn't as good as with my Diatone, since I didn't have it linked properly it was probably defaulting to 25mw tx?  I'm anxious to try it out tomorrow and see if the video quality is better as I have it set to 700mw in the goggles.
The only disappointing thing to me, is something I overlooked when I purchased the Runcam Link and that is the Wasp camera is only 4:3.  I have another Caddx Starlight I can put on this I suppose.  But I also notice that some people seem to like 4:3 better.  I'll play with it and see what I decide later.