It could be the firmware.. what version of betaflight are u running?

I run what ever version of Betaflight that comes with the FC board and have a variety of versions; most are 4.xxxxx something.

Again, I don't update or flash ANYTHING unless there is a really compelling reason. So far, I have not found a reason. 

I am rather simplistic when it comes to installing FC boards. I buy them, solder them up, put them in a quad, and FLY. Interestingly, all of my quads seem to fly well and I am satisfied. Easy, Peasy. No worries. So...why would I change anything??

Call me crazy, but I just can't see buying a board, flashing it and messing with the tune before the quad is even flown. 

Yes, MOST are 4.*.*.. but I have had some show up with 3.*.*…and I agree with you at the beginning, fly it “straight out of the box”… I do also.. even the rates..the only “changes” I will make are mandatory ones, motor directions or location mapping.
The reason I see is for OTHER components.. the fc ur installing could easily be used in a bunch of different style and size quads, prop sizes and pitches…
I may have mentioned, my daily 5” beater has been “updated”, and a profile from uav tech.. and YES.. it handles AND sounds better…
Give it a shot, u can always go back… older bf hex files are on the GitHub page…
It would be cool to have 2 identical quads, one with stock settings, and the other updated along with a mild tune…fly them “blind”… see what’s what…

Finally got to Maiden flight this morning! I put in 6 packs (2s 450), and got about 4-5min per pack with some spirited cruising / light freestyle.

It flew pretty good, but definitely needs tuning. I was expecting as much being such a light weight over-propped quad. Weight is 45.6g, AUW is 80.3g w/ 2s 450 lipo.

It flys on stock tune much better than the 1s that required a lot of PID tuning to get feeling right. This one is mostly good, except for some slight oscillations on heavy throttle, and a little wobble/yaw twitch left when I chop throttle to 0. Nothing like the massive horizon-losing wobbles of the 1s on 0 throttle, but a little shake when I suddenly chop throttle to 0.

I did a little tuning between packs and have it almost where I want it. I turned off D-Min (required for these over-propped quads I think). I also upped the PD Gain slider a few notches to get D up to 64. That cut down on the throttle chop wobble, but I still get a tiny yaw-twitch left when I suddenly chop.

Next time out I will get it perfect.

I think tuning is mandatory for these under-powered over-propped toothpicks. Flight Controllers are made to fit "most quads". Well, a 46g toothpick isn't anything like a 4" or 5", or even a more usual weight 3".

It did fly 'acceptable' on stock tune if you could ignore the wobble on throttle chop and slight oscillations on high throttle, and a year ago I would have said 'good enough' and left it. But after using Kabob's PIDs for the 1s and seeing how it transformed into a different quad so much 'tighter' feeling than stock I want all my quads to feel like that. 5" are easy because most FC are made for them, but these ultra-light toothpicks seem to require tuning to get them completely stable and locked-in.

the pids depends mostly on the power to weight ratio. everything with medium low power or with the power of an usual 5inch will perform okish.


the blades are long for wideness of the motor, its a candidate to increase startuppower in blheli aslong as you dont get hot motors ;-) probably its not pid related.

(16-Jul-2021, 05:09 PM)hugnosed_bat Wrote: the pids depends mostly on the power to weight ratio. everything with medium low power or with the power of an usual 5inch will perform okish.


the blades are long for wideness of the motor, its a candidate to increase startuppower in blheli aslong as you dont get hot motors ;-) probably its not pid related.

I did check motor temps while flying this morning and they always felt cold.  

I will look into startuppower in BLHeli, I've never tried playing with that yet.  

If I could get rid of that tiny twitch when I chop throttle suddenly then I would be VERY happy with this little toothpick!

It is a little bit louder than my 1s, but is still quiet enough that I can fly stealthily.  I do like having the extra power of 2s as well, it made it much easier to 'catch' myself coming down on a steep dive. or make quick direction changes to avoid an obstacle.

It also survived 2 good crashes this morning. (it's a LOT harder to see tree branches with analog!)  I like that these quads have such low mass they just sort of bounce when they hit the dirt.  Flip it back over and keep flying.  I am hesitant to try turtle mode though, as I'm not sure how these whoop boards handle that sort of thing.

Thanks for all the help with my new adventure into light weight toothpicks, these things are a blast! and a completely different flying style.

I’m with you regarding “turtle mode”.. on my 5” yes.. smaller quads not so much.. I think it’s easier to smoke a smaller esc/fc

(16-Jul-2021, 06:14 PM)Rob Axel Wrote: I’m with you regarding “turtle mode”.. on my 5” yes.. smaller quads not so much.. I think it’s easier to smoke a smaller esc/fc

Alright, that's what worried me.

I almost  used it this morning, but thought I better ask on here from someone with experience with these AIO boards first.  I'll just make the 'walk of shame' every time I crash.  Which is a LOT on the toothpicks.  They let me try things I would never risk my 5" on, and even when I crash the worst damage so far is chipped paint off the antenna, and a bent prop.  At ~50g they are so light that they seem to very resistant to any real damage.

I've been away from flying for a long while... nearly forgot everything!

Uav tech presets are very good for toothpich etc.
https://theuavtech.com/presets/
approx P69 I90 D45.. 1.55x P/D, Dmin off.

But, I'm running 4S on all my little 4500-5000KV 3" micros.
I went with little lower.. initially P55, but want dont want too damped:
P60 I90 D35, and only FF90

For filtering Gyro only 150 PT1. RPM same 1 notch only 100Hz. Dterm slider to 1.3x
Can't say it flies "better" than Uav.. maybe bit milder.


For CPU load, realize that inflight is different than conected to BF - and logging also uses CPU.
You should use the newest BF 4.2 which has efficiency improvements.
If running F411, 4K and DShot300 should be OK for analog setup. If you are running soft serial or GPS, might be too high.

UAVTechs presets are good for a 3s/4s toothpick (or larger quads), because he is assuming a power/weight ratio of that of a 5".

They don't work for 1s or 2s builds very well, because the power/weight ratio is so much lower.

I took my 2s build out again this morning and I have it flying great!

I upped the StartUp Power to 0.75, turned on 48kHz Bi-Directional DSHot, Dynamic Idle = 25, Props Out with the following PIDS/Rates/Filters:

Filters : https://ibb.co/Xygj4rP
PIDS: https://ibb.co/VHmXJjr
Rates: https://ibb.co/dcFLX38

The motors stay cool to the touch even after 6 packs back-to-back, so I will try lowering the filtering another notch and test some more.

(23-Jul-2021, 05:29 PM)MrSolo Wrote: UAVTechs presets are good for a 3s/4s toothpick (or larger quads), because he is assuming a power/weight ratio of that of a 5".

They don't work for 1s or 2s builds very well, because the power/weight ratio is so much lower.

I took my 2s build out again this morning and I have it flying great!

I upped the StartUp Power to 0.75, turned on 48kHz Bi-Directional DSHot, Dynamic Idle = 25, Props Out with the following PIDS/Rates/Filters:

Filters : https://ibb.co/Xygj4rP
PIDS: https://ibb.co/VHmXJjr
Rates: https://ibb.co/dcFLX38

The motors stay cool to the touch even after 6 packs back-to-back, so I will try lowering the filtering another notch and test some more.

RPM of props/motors on 3" is very high. 

All my 3", I have rpm filtering enabled, and only 1 notch harmonic starting ~150Hz (conservative), and Q to 250 or higher.
This reduces latency, and is OK for 4", but maybe too agressive for 5" - especially ultralight.


Gyro filter you can enable only PT @150Hz or even remove (there is a 0.9ms hardware gyro LPF @250Hz)
Dterm filter slider can be 1.4 or higher, but NEVER remove it.

well, here it is..so far i am happy with the FC, i still have to sort out the tramp tables and such... havent touched any rates yet..Only flown on 2s so far... gonna get it dialed in for 2s first... THEN, charge that 3s LIPO

Hi Rob,   SWEET      Looks GOOD 

I can easily recommend this FC, and flying this on 3s is a world unto itself!

had some "Loss RX " issues .. guess there was more damage than I thought from the "run over"... question??? new D-8? new RXSR? or crossfire?.....