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Heavy Lifters
Howdy All,

Daughter and Granddaughter arrived safely and life as I once knew it has come to an end.

However I did find some time while the girls were out shopping yesterday to launch myself back into my Quad problems.

I am beginning to think I am going mad.  Angry

I am finally getting 100% reliable comms with the Hero and Betaflight and now I cannot get the motors to spool up when using the motors page or simply with the TX. I have tested each ESC separately directly from the RX and all four work fine. As does the wiring harness. 

I have gone through and set all of the parameters in Betaflight back to the way I remembered when flying the Hero previously.

One question, does anybody know if the Hero supports my standard KingKong ESC? There is a configuration setting for PWM ESC in Betaflight. I assume PWM is the correct setting for standard ESC.

I cannot remember if I changed from D-Shot ESC to KK ESC before or after I changed from the Hero to the Naza M so I am not sure that I ever flew with the Hero/KK ESC combo or not. I may be able to find a record of that in past postings if I am lucky.

So there you have it. After all of the nonsense  the drama still lingers on.

I feel like Arnie S in Kindergarden Cop when faced with those unruly school kids. He ran outside and screamed. Good move I think   Big Grin

KK
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Just to confirm, you do have the battery connected when trying to get the motors spinning? The current supplied from USB will never be enough to power the motors, so the flight pack must be connected at the same time as the USB.
Windless fields and smokeless builds
[-] The following 1 user Likes Tom BD Bad's post:
  • Keyboard Kid
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(13-Dec-2017, 05:19 AM)Tom BD Bad Wrote: Just to confirm, you do have the battery connected when trying to get the motors spinning? The current supplied from USB will never be enough to power the motors, so the flight pack must be connected at the same time as the USB.

Yes BD and I have checked the voltages at the RX pins and the Hero pins and the 5V reg and the speed controllers and abo;utely everything and cannot find a probllem.

I rather suspect that the Hero will not support the KingKong ESC. I have also tried almost every combiation of ESC protocol in Beta Flight.

I must admit I am stumped.

My last resort is to drag out my trusty old computer oscilloscope and look at the M1 - M4 output pinns and see what is going on there.

Talk about frustrating still I will not let it beat me.

I went to order a new Naza M Lite FC today but they were out of stock. I will try again in a few days time.

Off to the farm tonight sadly with no Quad.

What is the world coming to?   Huh

KK
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I think you'd be much happier if you could spend an extra few dollars for the Naza M V2
[-] The following 1 user Likes RENOV8R's post:
  • Keyboard Kid
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(13-Dec-2017, 06:47 PM)RENOV8R Wrote: I think you'd be much happier if you could spend an extra few dollars for the Naza M V2

I agree Reno but when I went to buy one Hobby king was out of stock.

In my limited experience to date the Naza M has proven to be the best for flexibility,ease of setup and power delivered to the motors.

I am not sure if my Naza was a V2 or not. How can you tell?

As soon as HK have them back in stock I will get one.

Regards,

KK
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(13-Dec-2017, 10:25 PM)Keyboard Kid Wrote: I agree Reno but when I went to buy one Hobby king was out of stock.

In my limited experience to date the Naza M has proven to be the best for flexibility,ease of setup and power delivered to the motors.

I am not sure if my Naza was a V2 or not. How can you tell?

As soon as HK have them back in stock I will get one.

Regards,

KK

Hi Reno,

I am sorry about the previous posting. I just looked up the differences between the three different NAZA versions and obviously I had no idea of what I was talking about.

Hobbyking does have the V2 in stock. The problem is that I do not need all of the features of the V2 especially the GPS.

However if the performance of the V2 Naza is so much better than the M lite then I am prepared to take your advice and go V2.

Regards,

KK
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I would also expect PWM to work with the KK escs... From top of my head i don't remember what the default PWM rate in betaflight is set to, if it is 600Hz you might have to lower it to 500 or even 400 maybe.

Always test via motor tab first, without using tx at all (maybe even remove rx connection from fc to exclude other possible problems).
[-] The following 1 user Likes fftunes's post:
  • Keyboard Kid
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(14-Dec-2017, 06:06 PM)fftunes Wrote: I would also expect PWM to work with the KK escs... From top of my head i don't remember what the default PWM rate in betaflight is set to, if it is 600Hz you might have to lower it to 500 or even 400 maybe.

Always test via motor tab first, without using tx at all (maybe even remove rx connection from fc to exclude other possible problems).

Thanks FF,

All hints and tips are greatly appreciated.

I have to say and I think I have said this before, that I have never had a project this difficult or this frustrating ever and I have dealt with some tough customers.

I just cannot see why this has become so difficult.

Certainly pounding poor old Wooden It into the ground on a regular basis probably contributed to the early demise of the Naza M but that not withstanding there have been dozens of other problem with very little rational explanations.

Weird!!   Huh 

KK.
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Howdy Lads,

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all. I wonder what 2018 will bring?

However 2017 did deliver one surprise.

Santa bought me a new flight controller. An SP  Racing F3 Deluxe with built in OSD.  Wink

Not quite what I would have ordered for myself but interesting anyway.

I think he heard my cries of anguish echoing all the way to the North Pole and felt sorry for me.

So I am looking forwatd to learning all about yet another FC.

As stated previously........"What will 2018 bring?"   Big Grin

KK
[-] The following 2 users Like Keyboard Kid's post:
  • Tom BD Bad, sloscotty
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Happy holidays KK, sounds like you're ready to build a mini racing quad now.............
[-] The following 2 users Like RENOV8R's post:
  • Tom BD Bad, Keyboard Kid
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Happy merries KK!
Santa obviously thought that all this has just been too much hard work, time to build yourself something that is just for fun!
Windless fields and smokeless builds
[-] The following 1 user Likes Tom BD Bad's post:
  • Keyboard Kid
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(26-Dec-2017, 07:25 AM)Tom BD Bad Wrote: Happy merries KK!
Santa obviously thought that all this has just been too much hard work, time to build yourself something that is just for fun!

You blokes worry me. Always chirpy and always a happy comment even in the most dire of times.   Big Grin 

Wait until you read my next post.
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Hi Reno,

The SP F3 was given to me as a Christmas present by an old flying friend who is following my quad travails on this forum. It was I must say a very nice surprise and I thank him for it.  I take it from your comment that it is suitable only for small racing quads. Is this correct? I must say that it is a nice neat package, well-constructed however with all the shortcomings that I have learned to expect of things DYI quad.
And what have I come to expect from things DIY quad?


I have come to expect things to be presented in a very primitive, dare I say “Geeky” way comparable to the way things were when I started flying R/C aircraft back in 1955.


In those days everything was very difficult. Commercial gear was primitive with most of us building or at least trying to build our own TX and Rx. These were at the time single channel superregen valve Rx and TX which required endless and constant tuning, that is if ever we got them to work in the first place.

Being here in Australia made things doubly difficult and we used to drool over the ads in the overseas magazines showing the latest R/C gear which was invariably not available in Australia due to the difficulty in obtaining overseas currency after the war. Our lifelines at the time were Airline Pilots who could bring stuff in direct and the occasional overseas traveller.

Getting ready for a Sunday flying session involved hours of work, unsoldering the old dry cell batteries and resoldering in new batteries. RX HT 22.5V, LT 1.5V, TX HT 180V and 1.5V LT and woe betide any twit who forgot to cut the end covers of the AA batteries in order to solder directly to the battery end. So onto the field the next day complete with headphones and bending over the model tuning the RX. If you were lucky (or had a good stable RX) putting the wing back on the model did not change the temperature in the cabin enough to detune the RX. To bring a model home in one piece was a real accomplishment and so it went for many a year.

Years followed in which we experimented with all sorts of systems, cascaded escapements, Mighty Midget motor centrifugal servos, Galloping Ghost and so on. Then came the reed sets. By this time even superregen RX were fairly reliable and even superhet RX were beginning to appear on local fields so tuning the RX was replaced with tuning reeds, all 10 of them. Sadly the battery replacement grind still carried on.

During those difficult years it was the help and support of the fellows at the club fields that got us through. It was those fellows who taught me my trade and encouraged me over the all too frequent rough spots. (Just as you fellows on this forum coach and encourage me over the all too frequent rough spots I have encountered flying Wooden IT. However I should not have to scrounge and beg search for help endlessly as I find myself doing at the moment. There has to be a better way than this)

However the reed sets worked very well and some of the nicest flying I saw back then was with reed systems even to the point that good pilots still flying reeds were competitive with Propo pilots.

Then came the real revolution. The first of the modern proportional system began to appear; at first in the hands of Airline pilots and their friends and then in greater numbers through commercial channels. Here was the dream realised. Perfect control with no battery replacement or soldering, no tuning. NO ANYTHING!  Just charge the batteries and go fly. However the best part by far was the fact that bringing home the model was now routine and modern R/C had arrived.

Which now brings me to the point of this story and perhaps the prickly bit. To my mind the DIY quad business is at the point where single channel was back in the 1950s and I hope I am not treading on too many toes by saying this.

Take for example my latest acquisition. The parcel arrived by mail before Christmas with a dire warning that it was not to be opened until Christmas morning. (We are really old fashioned Downunder.) As with all kids I sneaked out in the early hours of Christmas morning and into the workshop only to be confronted with the usual quad mess.

Firstly no instruction sheet included. So onto the web and as it turned out this was quite difficult to locate. I finally located and downloaded a copy of the genuine Cleanflight FC which looks remarkably similar but the manual for my controller took some time longer to locate. Bang went my spare time on Christmas day with no progress except locating and printing out the manual.

Next day came the usual “Must flash new firmware” warning and the agony that accompanies that warning. I found that I could successfully communicate with the FC but could not flash the firmware. So I had a good few hours on the quad today unsuccessfully trying to flash the firmware, update drivers, play with the boot pins, scrounge around watching videos on how it should be done and so on and so on. Again to no avail. So here I am two days later with nothing to show but a print-out of the manual. (Oops I forgot the 15 minutes soldering the pins into the board, a very routine op for an old hand like me. Were all things quad so routine.)

So my point in all of this? Why does the quad not come with an SD card carrying the manual, drivers and a good step by step set-up procedure. Perhaps even a video. That would at least save a lot of time and frustration. Yes it will put the price up a bit but surely it would be worth it.
I know I am not good at this modern computer stuff but in 1978 I wrote the entire software business suite for Silvertone using Dartmouth basic. I used that software for years until the good business programs came on the market so it is not as if I know absolutely nothing about computer programming and I sure am still capable of learning, so why is this quad stuff so difficult?

Gripe session over. (For the moment)
Regards,
KK
[-] The following 1 user Likes Keyboard Kid's post:
  • Tom BD Bad
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I agree, my 1st attempt at a build, initially, went really well, despite the Omnibus brushed FC not coming with any instructions. After everything was soldered and placed on the frame, looking ready to go, however, I struggled to get BetaFlight to recognize the connection to the FC... 

I had done the soldering at my buddy's place, he has a workshop with a nice soldering station, lighting, spare hands etc, all set up and ready to go, whereas I would have to (to use a common South African term) make a plan. So I downloaded the BetaFlight configurator onto his PC, along with driver packs etc. but I couldn't get it to work.

Finally managed to get everything set up on my laptop at home, got the board and configurator communicating, but now I couldn't get the RX to talk to the FC... Angry With hindsight and a little more experience, I was probably failing to select the proper options for the serial RX... As a human being though, I am prone to expecting the worst, so I re-soldered the RX... 

Thinking back on it,  I might have even seen the tell tail 'smoke trail' of the tiny solder 'missile' that lay, un-exploded, awaiting the 5v trigger that inevitably came with connecting the USB!


Things are looking like they are improving though, (Josh Bardwell's) JB FC is now available, (shipping it out of the US isn't very affordable at the moment though) and I'm sure that there is probably an excess of information in the manual. He has also written the instruction manual for the HolyBro Kakute FC too. Josh has also just announced that he has quit his permanent job to focus on the hobby full time, so he may have more time to offer his writing services to FC manufacturers.

I'd be happy to pay an extra few $ to cover the cost of his service and the printing.
Windless fields and smokeless builds
[-] The following 1 user Likes Tom BD Bad's post:
  • Keyboard Kid
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(26-Dec-2017, 08:25 AM)Keyboard Kid Wrote: The SP F3 was given to me as a Christmas present by an old flying friend who is following my quad travails on this forum. It was I must say a very nice surprise and I thank him for it.  I take it from your comment that it is suitable only for small racing quads. Is this correct? 

There is nothing to say this FC can only be used on Mini quads.  It doesn't have a built in barometer or GPS, but it should work fine (provide stabilization and control, etc) on any size quad.
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