(24-Apr-2024, 10:21 PM)mstc Wrote: Transformer 4 is probably one of the lightest 4" LR frames around. It has a single solid base plate with a minimal top plate, most others have separate arms and multi plate sandwich. I picked up one just before Nguyen closed up shop. I thought the geometry was kind of odd, and the frame does get knocked around in winds, but its a great for an explorer setup. My dry weight carrying a Vista is around 130g, compared to my analog Flywoo LR4 setup that is closer to 160g. It gets super long flight times, but not for windy days.
Also it has a superman silhouette

Ok, I found it. I saved that to bookmark so I can get one later. What is a good motor for that?

For a light cruiser 1404 with 4" biblades, the Dave-C LR4 formula works nicely. If you wanted more power, maybe 1504 motors, but the single plate may not handle the vibrations/resonance so well.

(24-Apr-2024, 11:27 PM)mstc Wrote: For a light cruiser 1404 with 4" biblades, the Dave-C LR4 formula works nicely. If you wanted more power, maybe 1504 motors, but the single plate may not handle the vibrations/resonance so well.

Thanks. I did build a QAV S Mini 3" with some 1404 motors and I like them. So I will get more of the same.

(24-Apr-2024, 11:27 PM)mstc Wrote: For a light cruiser 1404 with 4" biblades, the Dave-C LR4 formula works nicely. If you wanted more power, maybe 1504 motors, but the single plate may not handle the vibrations/resonance so well.

Hi mstc,

I have used the BrotherHobby 1504.5 3950 Kv motos in a couple of different 
frames. These motors appear to be very smooth, I didn't notice any vibrations.
Since we are talking about easy cruising rather than acrobatic stunts, I believe
that the Transformer frame would be fine. 

Hi SeismicCWave,

Sorry that I didn't include the direct link for the Transformer frame. What was I
(Not) thinking?? Ah, the memory is the second thing to go, Ha, Ha.

All, 

You know, I read and watch videos regarding frame harmonics and vibration
(yeah, Chris Rosser is big on this topic), however, I rarely experience these 
things. On the one hand, am I just lucky? Are my builds just solid? Or, is it my 
easy flying style; my throttle is mostly in the 25-35 percent range and rarely 
gets close to 50 percent? Hmm. Interesting, don't you think?

I have some unorthodox builds and some with arm overlay extensions; 
yeah, these ones often raise an eyebrow. Yet, all fly very stable and smooth.
What is wrong (or more accurately, right)? 

Moreover, I don't tune a quad if it flies good to start with. Why would I? 
I simply do not see fiddling with the tune unless there is a compelling
reason to do so. 

Maybe a good experiment is to try the Transformer frame with 1303, 1404, 
and 1504.5 motors and compare the results. I have had all of these motor
sizes on 4 inch builds, but the builds were enough different that it wouldn't
really be an good comparison. By keeping the build the same except for
swapping out motors, any differences would be due solely to the motors.

As I resume my hobby activity, I think a build with the Transformer frame is
in order. I will put that on my list of future builds. Although I am not a fan
of prop guards on larger craft, the frame is light enough to run 3 inch props
with guards...for the illusion of safety, of course. Still, maybe test it anyway
just for some comparative data.

I can already see that this is going to be a very fun year.

Later, iFly   

(25-Apr-2024, 10:31 AM)iFly4rotors Wrote: Hi mstc,

I have used the BrotherHobby 1504.5 3950 Kv motos in a couple of different 
frames. These motors appear to be very smooth, I didn't notice any vibrations.
Since we are talking about easy cruising rather than acrobatic stunts, I believe
that the Transformer frame would be fine. 

Hi SeismicCWave,

Sorry that I didn't include the direct link for the Transformer frame. What was I
(Not) thinking?? Ah, the memory is the second thing to go, Ha, Ha.

All, 

You know, I read and watch videos regarding frame harmonics and vibration
(yeah, Chris Rosser is big on this topic), however, I rarely experience these 
things. On the one hand, am I just lucky? Are my builds just solid? Or, is it my 
easy flying style; my throttle is mostly in the 25-35 percent range and rarely 
gets close to 50 percent? Hmm. Interesting, don't you think?

I have some unorthodox builds and some with arm overlay extensions; 
yeah, these ones often raise an eyebrow. Yet, all fly very stable and smooth.
What is wrong (or more accurately, right)? 

Moreover, I don't tune a quad if it flies good to start with. Why would I? 
I simply do not see fiddling with the tune unless there is a compelling
reason to do so. 

Maybe a good experiment is to try the Transformer frame with 1303, 1404, 
and 1504.5 motors and compare the results. I have had all of these motor
sizes on 4 inch builds, but the builds were enough different that it wouldn't
really be an good comparison. By keeping the build the same except for
swapping out motors, any differences would be due solely to the motors.

As I resume my hobby activity, I think a build with the Transformer frame is
in order. I will put that on my list of future builds. Although I am not a fan
of prop guards on larger craft, the frame is light enough to run 3 inch props
with guards...for the illusion of safety, of course. Still, maybe test it anyway
just for some comparative data.

I can already see that this is going to be a very fun year.

Later, iFly   

Do you have a link to these Brother Hobby 1504's. I am not opposed to trying different motors. That gives me more first hand experience instead of using the same thing over and over.

Yes I think the frame resonance can be our easy flying style. However watching Rosser's video the frequency he was talking about is way higher than from aggressive flying though.

Those BH1504.5 are very nice motors, I've only read positive comments from owners. But it is more powerful and not as efficient as a 1404, so if you want long flight times better bet to go with 1404. I have a set on a heavier 3.5" and they are still running smooth. But I've never seen these go on sale after so many years, too bad...

https://pyrodrone.com/products/brotherho...50kv-motor

Recursion labs did quite a bit of motor/prop bench testing. Although he tested this motor on 3" props, you can get an idea how it compares to the 1404s, and he also tests the 1404 on various 4" props.

(25-Apr-2024, 07:38 PM)mstc Wrote: Those BH1504.5 are very nice motors, I've only read positive comments from owners. But it is more powerful and not as efficient as a 1404, so if you want long flight times better bet to go with 1404. I have a set on a heavier 3.5" and they are still running smooth. But I've never seen these go on sale after so many years, too bad...

https://pyrodrone.com/products/brotherho...50kv-motor

Recursion labs did quite a bit of motor/prop bench testing. Although he tested this motor on 3" props, you can get an idea how it compares to the 1404s, and he also tests the 1404 on various 4" props.

Ah my favorite vendor. At first I thought Pyrodrone priority shipping charge was a bit steep for small items. Then when I started to get so many delays when other vendors started to ship via ground advantage the little extra cost to ship priority mail was well worth it. Since Pyrodrone is in California my orders consistently showed up in 3 days. They also have a fairly decent inventory.

I saved the video link to watch later when I have my ears in place.

In the meantime I just ordered the Hurricane frame. Now that I may be getting some conformal coating I am not sure which frame I should build as my rainy day quad.

Hi SeismicCWave,

Yes, PyroDrone is my No. 1 supplier of drone things. I generally keep a "wish" list 
and an "add to any order" list so that I can fill up any order enough to get free 
shipping. I always have things that are too small to make up an order, but great
to tack on to an order when I just need to buy a few more dollars for fee shipping. 

Yes, I have thought for a long time that the frame harmonics and resonance
really only shows up in "balls to the wall" acrobatic stunts; Not in our easy
cruiser style of flying. So, it has relevance to the high end ACRO stunt pilots,
but is less important, if at all, for pilots who fly a bit easier. 

Although I have no data to support it, I have always believed that most of the
conventions, testing, criteria, etc. seemed to be for the hi-performance ACRO
stunt pilots who were pushing the envelope. Now, there is nothing wrong with
that, however, few folks consider the endurance pilot and those who do not
do stunts. 

Furthermore, most of the "tests" seem to be a bit dated and with a focus on 
the "old school" 5 inch, heavy, quads. Fine, but what about the light weight,
sub-250 category and craft running an AIO or EAIO* board? To be fair, 
KababFPV has always focused on the lighter, smaller, craft; so there are
some.


     * EAIO = Everything (really) All In One board 
                                   (includes Rx receiver and VTX)
                   

Hi Mstc,

I watched the video. Hmm. From the motors he tested, looks like the T-Motor
won. To me, it is interesting that he is testing the motors for a 3 inch build
which would only need that much power for a hi-performance quad, not a
standard or endurance craft; 12xx - 13xx work fine on a 3 inch which benefit
more from higher KV (RPM) than bigger physical dimensions of the motor.

Now, put those puppies on a 4 inch frame....or even a 5 inch frame.


Later Everyone, iFly  

Hi iFly,
Recursion also tested the T-motor 1404 on 3.5" and 4" props as well (but not the BH1504) and his Scythe/Helios sub250 setups are using that same motor to run 3.5" props. For 4", the 1404 did quite well on bi-blades, and if you are just cruising and don't need quick response, you can consider the floppy props too (like you find on DJI camera drones) as they seem to be the most efficient.

He nicely summarized his results in this post
https://intofpv.com/t-recursion-labs-sub...er-testing

I'd be careful grouping motors by stator size though, a 12xx could be a 1207 which is nearly 30% larger than a 1404 motor, or a 1202 which is only 1/3 the size of a 1404.

Hi Mstc,

Thanks. 

Yeah, I should probably communicate better. Maybe that short cut for motor
sizes needs more explanation with it, especially since that is just one part
of the equation. The voltage being the other when it comes to producing
RPM. I will work on being clearer.

Thanks

Later, iFly  

Looks like this is the next build.



Then this one afterwards.

Hi SeismicCWave,

COOL      I like the colored carbon fiber.  

Later, iFly  

(04-May-2024, 10:03 AM)iFly4rotors Wrote: Hi SeismicCWave,

COOL      I like the colored carbon fiber.  

Later, iFly  

I can't see the color in the goggles but it does make a slightly different looking quad on the bench. Actually with all the electronics and wires and motors I can barely tell the color of the gold colored one.

Test hovered in the living room. I had to change out the VTX. The BetaFPV A03 VTX is garbage. At least I couldn't get it to work right. It was cutting out right in front of me when hovering. Lots of snow and flicker.

https://betafpv.com/products/a03-400mw-5-8g-vtx

 So i changed over to the Sub250 Send T400 VTX and it is steady as a rock. 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0627/5...1676624838

No battery the airframe weighs 64 grams ready to fly.

What frame is it?
It looks like a clone to me, wrong cutted to the fibers and looks even like gfk? I might be wrong, but if so, anotherone would give more flightpleasure and lifetime.