Although I used to fly bigger stuff, haven't for a while... but:

NewBeeDrone Inertia 5" DC (Dead Cat Style) FPV Frame - $ 69.99
https://newbeedrone.com/products/newbeed...-fpv-frame

T-MOTOR VELOX V2207 V3.0 MOTORS - $14.90
https://www.defiancerc.com/collections/m...1585523781

COZ price! (cheap to play/sample): 6x RDQ BadAss 2205 2450Kv Motors
Original price $95.94 Current price $38.49
https://www.racedayquads.com/collections...50kv-motor

might be worth checking

4"ers for sure, check cncdrones? checking...

back:

this looks kinda kool:

AESIR II
https://www.cncdrones.com/aesir-ii.html

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4868250/files

(07-Feb-2024, 03:00 AM)husafreak Wrote: Since starting this thread I have certainly changed my thinking. Now I see two quads in my future

Yeah, Two, at least. This is sort of an addictive hobby especially if one likes to build as well as fly.
Yes, it is possible to have one quad that is sort of in the middle, Right? Fine, however, it will not
be that great on either end of the spectrum. The characteristics are inversely proportional. As
performance goes up, fly time goes down and vice versa. Plus, if you like building, one (or two)
is never enough. Different quad for different things and build another one just to see what
can be done. 

Some components for this one I already bought:

GOKU F722 PRO V2 50A BLS 30X30 Stack (MPU6000) I saw them on sale and decided to forget the sub 250 business for this build.

Getting a "deal" is one of the best reasons for buying products. I often buy outside my norm
if the price is right. This just makes good sense. I even bought a 3" Darwin BabyApe BNF
because it was on sale for $ 70 USD. I can't buy parts and built it for that price.

Walksnail Moonlight Kit - 4K FPV System
CaddX GPS In the future I want a GPS on any quad that is valuable and will be flown over open country. Even if not very far away once you leave the park or the building site you are going to be in danger of losing it. Heck, I'm hoping to fly and record with this at night! I think a $15 GPS and Betaflight 4.5 should make having that insurance easily possible.

Having a GPS and a "Good" RTH feature helps as long as the craft flies. 
If it crashes, the GPS will get you pretty close; at least that is what they say.
Depending on what the quad crashes in, the thing can be amazingly difficult to find.
If it is in a tree...well...Have I got a story for you. Water is about the same.

Radiomaster RP3 ELRS Rx

I still need to pick out a DC frame. There are so many 5" Freestyle/LR frames. The usual suspects from big outlets but maybe something different too?
I need to find out wether it would be better to run a motor that is only 4s or 6s or maybe one that can handle both. Maybe a motor with the right kV could run like a scraped ape on 6s or cruise efficiently on 4s with a prop swap? Or maybe not... I have a 6" quad that runs 6x3x3" props on 4s and 5x5x3 5" props on 6s with 1600 kV motors. But I would like to stick with 5" props on this one. I have those Brother Hobby 1504.5 3950 kV motors on my recent 3.5" sub 250g build. I am looking to have a lot more power for this one.

You know. Motors are actually pretty flexible about the input voltage (number of battery cells). 
Have you tried running that 6" quad (with 6" props installed) on 4S ?? You might find that the
quad does better with the 6" props on 4S than going down to 5" props; and vice versa. In any
given configuration, try a bunch of different batteries; then change something and try all the
batteries again. Any motor/prop combination is not "married" to a particular cell battery. 

Now, here is an interesting one. I have a stock 2.5" GEPRC Phantom with 1103 8000 KV motors.
In that quad, I have used from a 1S cell to a 3S pack. Yeah, the 1S was super slow, but it did fly.
However, I am an endurance pilot and like a lot of Fly Time, so I normally run it with a GNB 3S
1100 mAh battery and get between 15-17 minutes of time in the air. Don't try ACRO stunts with
this combo as it is a bit on the heavy side. I have also use 4" props with 1103 7650 Kv motors.
Yep, they worked just fine. Not a hi-performance setup, but fine for easy cruising. The point is,
any particular craft can actually use quite a variance in battery types and voltages (cells). 
NOTHING is locked in stone. 

Another quad to consider would be a light 4" one using that 40A AIO I have. I love that you have a 4" frame that can run 3/3.5/4" props! What would be your 4" frame of choice? Something easily available. FYI I thought the cncmadness Airblade Transformer 4" 33g frame was really cool. But I had a friend print the TPU files for it and they are a hot mess. Totally unusable. So I won't be doing that...

I have a bunch of  4" custom built quads. Many of them are using...Hmm... frames with arm overlays.
One of them is built on a frame (which I really like) that is no longer available. One of them is based
on a Armattan Gecko bottom plate with everything else custom fabricated (but NO TPU). 

I have one (or two?) of the 4" Airblade Transformer 33g frames, but have not yet assembled a BUILD
with one. I hope to get back to building and flying in the near future and will use a Transformer frame
for one of my new projects. TPU parts? I rarely ever use them and less now than in the past. So, that
part will not bother me. In fact, I will likely use Armattan Tadpole aluminum cam braces and fabricate
a GPS plate from LEXAN or some other plastic. 

Since I focus on light, sub-250 gram, FAA Category 1, craft; Every piece on the build must have
functionality that I deem as "can't live without". I don't do glitz. I avoid TPU glitz like the plague.
Personally, those pads on end of the arms have little function that I can tell, at least not for me.
Yeah, they are supposed to "protect" the frame or motor or something, but I have done fine 
without them. 

There are only two areas where I will use a TPU part:  1) The little camera mounts that go over
standoff columns and 2) a GPS holder, however, I have now found a method to hold the GPS that
is lighter and has more options so I have moved on to that over TPU. Actually, I rarely use TPU
camera mounts any more either because I like the aluminum cam braces better.

The take away: I never let the lack of TPU "accessories" influence my choice in a frame. 

Hi Husafreak,

Are you having fun yet? 

I am excited to see this build come together, so don't forget to start a BUILD thread.

As I look through the 4" frame offerings, I am finding very few that come with mounting 
holes for the 30x30 stack. Since you have that FC stack, that sort of limits the playing field 
unless you want to fabricate an adapter plate.

WOW!  I have just checked all of the 4" frame offerings from my top 3 vendors (PyroDrone,
RDQ, and GetFPV) and have only found TWO that accepts the 30x30 stack. So, there might 
be slim pickings for a 4" frame with mounting for that stack. Yeah, the Transformer does not 
come with 30x30 stack mounting. 

The following frames do have the 30x30 mounting option:

Ummagawd 2FIDDY =  Also has place for the DJI 03 unit.

Diatone Roma F35 = Looks like it has a rear mount for digital unit, But 3.5 inch frame.

So, unless you can find a 4" that is drilled for 30x30 somewhere; consider the following
options:

1) Ummagawd 2FIDDY = straight up build.  <-- This would be high on my list.

2) Pick a frame that you like and fabricate a custom adapter plate.

3) See if CNCDrones has, or will cut, a frame with 30x30 mounting.
    Just a thought, but they might cut a Transformer bottom plate 
    that is a bit larger and drilled for the 30x30 mount. 

4) Design and build your own. Yeah, I know this sounds funny and
    it is a bit of work, however, it is actually workable if one has the
    desire, skills, and time. 

5) Buy a 20x20 FC (AIO or stack) for this build and save the 30x30 
    stack for a larger build; maybe a 5 inch or maybe a 7 inch. 

So, I don't know if any of my commentary will help.

Still, Food for Thought.  


Later, iFly  

Oh really good choice on that 2Fiddy there iFly, forgot alllll about that one. Only 51g too and like you said, it does take 30x30 fcs.

...there used to be a morphite 180 frame from armattan, h frame tho...

Ill check out the 2fiddy and the other quads mentioned. Also apologies for the confusion! I want the 30x30 50A stack in the 5” freestyle frame with the heavy Moonlight kit.
The 40A AIO is a 20x20 for a light 4” build.

With my 6” race frame i run the 6x3x3 props on 4s and 5x5x3 on 6s. Sounds like there is great flexibility in what any given motor can do, good news!

Thanks for the links. I figured out pretty quick that prices are all over the map and don’t necessarily reflect quality. For instance I paid a major retailer $140 for that GOKU 40A AIO. Then I got one direct from Flywoo on sale for $80, then saw it on the same major retailer stacked with an ELRS Rx for $140. LOL I’m more inclined now to wait and watch for good deals.

Hi Husafreak,

That is me, my Friend. I like to stockpile the parts bin when there is a sale.
Sometimes, I will need a specific item that I don't have and will need to buy it,
however, I pick up a lot of stuff when on sale. I sort of have a "standing" list
of things that will work with almost any quad that I want to build.

My default FC of choice is a 25.5 x 25.5 diagonal oriented, whoop, mount with
an input rating of 3S to 6S and an ESC Amp rating higher than 30. These FCs
will fit almost any frame from a whoop to...well...at least a 7 inch. From my
perspective this format is almost Universal as long as the power ratings are 
on the mid to high side; 30 Amp is about right for almost anything that I would
build. Interestingly, I have the AIKON 60A whoop board in my 7 inch rig. So,
if I see a good sale on whoop AIO FCs with decent ratings, I will buy 1 (or 2).

I am not opposed to stacks and have used several 16x16 stacks. Again, if the
price is right for any size (16x16, 20x20, and maybe even 30x30) I will buy 1 
(or maybe 2). I am really liking the new SpeedyBee 20x20 stacks. It is all about
the price and value. I have no problem fabricating mounting adapters. The only
thing is that a square stack doesn't work well in is a small whoop frame. By the 
way, the original iFlight Beast whoop AIO with 55A rating DOES fit in a 65mm
framed tiny whoop. Yeah, overkill, but it will work none the less. 

I am all analog, so I buy cameras and VTXs from time to time. I like the 1200TVL
Foxeer Razer Nano as my default camera. I am also partial to the Zeus 350 mW
VTX, however, I also like the Flywoo and GEPRC VTXs. 

This sounds crazy, but I often buy motors in sets of 8. You know, it takes 4 for
a quad, but if 1 or 2 are bad or get damaged during a crash, now we need a
spare or two. So, how about 4. If you don't need them as spares, you have 
enough for another build rather than them just sitting around waiting for
something to break. 

Then, there is a variety of small parts that I often "tack" on to an order. 
I like the Armattan Tadpole aluminum cam braces.

Anyway, that is my tactic. 

Later, iFly  
 

After all your good advice I decided to cannibalize one of my older quads for this project. A recent failed attempt to re equip my 6" Proton Heliospring FC equipped race frame quad with Walksnail HD prompted it. I tried an unstable Emuflight release for HD but my OSD freezes randomly, I messed with that a bit but decided to move on. Plus, seeing the new capabilities of Betaflight 4.5 for GPS look really good for this. FPV is a fast moving target!
Sooo, I bought a Lumenier QAV-R 2 "Slam Deadcat" 6" frame (on sale for $60). I am a big fan of 6" frames that can run 5" too. It is a school bus style frame which I think I will like. And I have never had one. I've never had a DC frame either. Having a slammed frame (20mm standoffs) gives it a cool look so I can be all ghetto but without a lot of annoying bling. I now prefer the battery on top configuration after having one of those. I have an old Lumenier Code Red 3' frame and the finish on their CF parts is really sweet. Also the Proton donates T-Motor F40 ProII 1600kv motors which are great for cruising/filming on 4s and rip with 5" high pitch props on 6s. I'll do a little build thread when I get everything but now the component list is:

QAV-R 2 Slam Deadcat 6"
Walksnail Moonlight HD kit
GOKU F722 PRO V2 50A BLS 30X30 Stack (MPU6000)
T-Motor F40 ProII 1600kv
M10 GPS
Radiomaster ELRS RP3

I'm a little sad I'm not going lightweight and small anymore but I want this to be my ship for recording videos without a GoPro and my experience with heavier 5/6" quads is they are tough and stable in flight. I like the way they fly. My favorite thing to do is chase RC airplanes where I normally fly and this on 6s will be able to keep up. I don't care as much for highly loaded quads and the GPS and Walksnail kit is heavy.

Hi Husafreak,

The frame looks really nice and something that I might consider if I was building
a heavy craft. In fact, it looks pretty "beefy" and might make a good base for
a "crash test" quad since the camera looks like it is well protected by the actual
frame, rather than sticking out the front. 

Also, I DO like that the frame can be fitted with 3 different length of arms; 
presumably interchangeable. This is nice for a quad that is used as a "test bed" 
for different propulsion systems (motors and props). I like the "slammed" 
(short) stand off columns. 

Yes, I agree that the 6" size is versatile as it will handle 5" props as well; plus
the 6" version is only 6 grams heavier. Plus, you could run 4" props with 
Prop Guards. Although that might slow it down too much to chase RC planes.
Yeah, some folks might think that it would be crazy, however, it might make a 
decent cinematic craft and less intimidating if there are any people around. 
I think that I might actually have a set of these guards. Anyway, it was just 
a thought.

Yes, please start a BUILD thread. You don't need much to start the thread.
Sometimes just an idea, sometimes just a frame and maybe some of the
parts.


Later, iFly  

I never even considered prop guards. I can't imagine how a big 5" quad would fly with them, doing acrobatics, and it's always windy around here. I could see a nice quiet sub 250 4" with guards in my future though. A people friendly rig. For now my whoops and 1s stuff have that acceptance factor.

The thing is, prop guards doesn't have to mean solid chunks of plastic. You can have thinner prop guards that only stop the props cutting things if it crashes, but don't stop airflow per se. Think moulded plastic tubing. Basically used as a buffer if it hits something. I'm thinking something like this AOS frame, but probably bigger.

(03-Mar-2024, 05:17 PM)husafreak Wrote: I never even considered prop guards. I can't imagine how a big 5" quad would fly with them, doing acrobatics, and it's always windy around here. I could see a nice quiet sub 250 4" with guards in my future though. A people friendly rig. For now my whoops and 1s stuff have that acceptance factor.

Hmm. a sub-250 4-inch with prop guards. Although I believe it to be possible
if some light weight guards in that size can be found. Maybe a frame like
the one Patherfinder listed. Interesting. 

Due to the close tolerance, only guards for a 3-inch prop will actually only fit
a 4-inch frame or larger. The ducts that I listed are for standard 4-inch props,
but will not fit an actual standard 4-inch frame.

You might be interested in reviewing my Sub-250 Build Methodology. 

Hi Husafreak,

First, the frame looks good and will likely be just fine for what you want. 
In re-reading you earlier post, you have purchased a "heavy" 6-inch frame.    
If I understand correctly, you like the extra weight and how a heavy craft
handles.

When I am outside, I much prefer an open prop, freestyle type, quad because
the style is much lighter than one with prop guards. Even though the degradation
in performance doesn't really bother me, a stunt pilot would certainly not like 
them on a larger craft; yes, most of them add a considerable amount of weight.

That said, I only mention it as an option for times when you want to fly more
smooth and easy where there might be people. Even though the craft will still
be large and a bit intimidating, the guards or ducts tend to give an appearance
of less dangerous and might be useful for certain cinematic flights. 

I have temporarily used 3-inch props with ducts on a 4-inch quad. It does work
better than expected, but I still consider it to be situational specific. If is merely
an option should a use case present itself. 

The ducts that I listed are made to fit a 5-inch frame and use 4-inch props. The
advantage to this type of guard or duct is that it is independent of the frame
itself, mounts with the motors, and is more or less "easy" to add or remove.
Yes, the extra weight and smaller prop size will definitely cut the some of that 
hi-performance, but then that is not the reason to use them. As mentioned, the
reason is to tame the craft and give an "appearance" of a measure of safety.
Well, it would prevent the props from chewing someone to pieces if the quad
did accidently hit someone.

I have always found the frame that Pathfinder listed (and others like it) to be
interesting. In fact, I have a frame of that design in my parts bin, but have
yet to consider it for a build. Still, it is waiting should I decide to use it. 

Also, most prop guards are merely that, prop guards which do pretty much
nothing except offer a measure of protection. On the other hand the ones
that I linked are actual ducts which were designed to offer some airflow
improvement. Now, I don't know how much, still, probably a bit better 
than just a guard. Yeah, the set that I have is heavy, so they probably
need any extra thrust just to help offset the weight. 

Anyway, I always like options as I am the quintessential experimenter.
Yeah, I often change things just to see what different it makes; sometimes
good, sometimes not so good, but all in the nature of learning.

I am currently working through what I type of frame that I want for my
upcoming T-Mount prop experiments. Right now, I am thinking that a
custom fabricated aluminum frame with arms set to accommodate 6-inch
props. Yeah, so I can test 4, 5, and 6 inch props. For this build, the frame
weight is totally irrelevant since I plan to add payload until the quad will
no longer launch. Anyway, it is my most recent, near future, experiment.

Later, iFly    

I like that frame Path... I will look into those. Something like that, 4", sub 250, with the GOKU HD 745 EVO 40A AIO that I already have would be great to throw into a backpack when traveling. Maybe score a Radiomaster pocket for it. Legal, friendly, and the guards would protect the quad when packed as well. I already have a backpack for quads.

One thing I wish I could change is the title of this thread iFly... I said "lightweight" but the QAV-R 2 at 146g is not. I gradually came around to the idea that I want a "standard weight" high performance freestyle quad for the type of filming I will mostly do. I love my 3.5" that I built but it is not fast enough for chasing model airplanes or heavy enough to fly like one. Of my current fleet my 6" flies the most like an airplane so I get those motors and props for this Another added weight I'm realizing would be LED's. I am hoping to be able to record with this quad at night/low light and the larger size and LED strips would be a big help if it goes down and I have to search for it. FYI I have never put LED's on a quad before.