Posts: 1 Threads: 1 Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts Likes Given: 0 Joined: Nov 2020 Reputation: 0 The past decade has seen a dramatic rise in the use and popularity of FPV (First Person View) drones. Previously known to be bulky, complicated, and expensive, current drones are now much more accessible, though can still be considered as in an intermediate stage of development. Advances in miniaturization and smartphone technology have made FPV drones hugely popular for purposes such as recreation and cinematography, but the biggest development in drone technology would certainly have to be the utilization of the analog transmitter. Analog FPV systems use wave signals to transfer images from the camera, translated into electrical signals by the video transmitter, and send them over to the video receiver so that they can be translated back into images which could then be viewed via goggles. During its peak, this system is groundbreaking as it provides a live and true bird’s eye view with the pilot safely on the ground. However, this system has limitations as the inherent limitations of radio signals can result in a poor user experience despite many of its upsides. Enter the DJI FPV System. The DJI FPV Digital System was considered as a game changer when it was released last year. Using digital modulation and made up of four main components namely the air unit, camera, goggles, and remote controller, the DJI FPV Digital System was the all-in-one solution and a superior alternative to flying FPV drones using analog transmission. Highlights of the product when all components are used together include low latency times (around 28ms), much higher transmission range (up to 4km using OcuSync technology), and less signal breakup and interruption. The camera can also provide stunning HD videos at 60 fps and 720p at 120 fps for both recording and live via the DJI FPV goggles. The DJI FPV Digital System also utilizes eight distinct channels so that multiple pilots can fly simultaneously. The goggles, in turn, may also be used in Audience Mode so that they can share what the pilots see. Of course, one of the biggest advantages of the DJI FPV system is that components are fully integrated and are guaranteed to work well together. While it can work well with other third party parts and accessories, it is best that the system’s components be utilized as a unit. As such, there is no need to shop around as much and waste time determining which parts work well or are compatible with each other. However, despite the many advantages of digital FPV systems, many purists still want analog on their quads. Still, many are already making the switch to digital FPV drones. There are many factors that would determine whether digital or analog systems would suit the pilot best, and this decision would depend mainly on the user’s purposes and needs. When it comes to user experience, nothing can beat digital transmission systems. If you want crystal clear images that you and your audience can see, then digital transmission systems such as the DJI FPV system are the way to go. With crisp detail and vivid images, digital signals will provide the first person view experience at its finest. Even when transmission breaks up due to signal interference or other factors, many still say that digital is superior over analog. The DJI FPV system even has Focus Mode wherein the focus, hence the name, is focused on the center of the screen so that images are sharper where you need them the most. For analog transmission systems, on the other hand, the video quality that you will get will be inferior in all aspects. Signal breakups will introduce a lot of static into your videos which can obscure your vision and pretty much ruin your FPV experience. This loss of detail can also result in the pilot missing out on minute obstacles such as small branches or thin electrical wires which can result in crashes. One drawback of digital transmission systems, however, is the higher latency when compared to analog systems. Analog systems transmit images from the camera to the goggles pretty much instantaneously, which digital systems will need to do some extra work in order to provide the user with high-quality video. The difference between the two can be measured in mere milliseconds, but these minute variances can be extremely critical especially when precision, such as when racing or stunt flying, is an absolute must. Some analog FPV loyalists also prefer how this system handles signal breakups. Analog signals tend to give pilots visual cues such as static and lines running across the screen. This is usually the sign for pilots to go back. Digital signals, on the other hand, tend to pixelate if signals start to break down. Digital signals can also get cut off, leaving you flying blind, although it would take pushing your drone to the extreme in order for this to happen. Analog transmission systems, despite having more choices when it comes to components and accessories, also gear more towards those who like to DIY drone setups. Parts are modular and are usually sold and purchased separately. This has both advantages and disadvantages, but the fact remains that it requires some form of skill for assembly and maintenance. On the other hand, digital transmission systems typically work on a closed loop. While compatibility with third-party hardware can be an issue, this makes building drones from scratch utilizing digital-based components much easier. Digital transmission systems such as those provided by DJI are pretty much considered to be the future of FPV drones, although it can also be said that there will still be a handful of hold-outs that will resist making the switch from analog to digital. Currently, there are still some criticisms that can be said about digital FPV systems, the worst of which are issues regarding latency and, perhaps most importantly, the introduction of an element in a “hobby” that usually means building and tinkering using your bare hands and whatever equipment you can scrounge up. However, we are only at the early stages of development and I think that we can only hold our breaths to see what improvements technology and companies like DJI can provide UAV pilots in the near future. ![[-]](https://intofpv.com/images/collapse.png) • Posts: 12,098 Threads: 125 Likes Received: 3,739 in 2,836 posts Likes Given: 99 Joined: Feb 2017 Reputation: 388 Digital video transmission is surely getting very popular. I think there will still be room for analog. • Posts: 4,550 Threads: 38 Likes Received: 1,245 in 1,064 posts Likes Given: 430 Joined: Aug 2020 Reputation: 118 Without doubt digital FPV is the future and apart from latency and breakup style, the reason why several people are still loyal to traditional analog FPV is the closed loop nature of the current digital systems that we get locked into. Posts: 321 Threads: 51 Likes Received: 123 in 88 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Nov 2017 Reputation: 6 I still love how analog is so simple and cheap. The ability to just solder a $15 cheapo transmitter that uses the good ol rtc6075 chip...nothing beats that. I would never put 150 bucks to a DJI systems because I'll just break it after I push it and crash. I'm a racer and value reliability and latency. That is why I stick with analog. Also keeps me in the air and out of the simulator longer because money...a problem most of us can relate to :-) Posts: 1,489 Threads: 92 Likes Received: 574 in 468 posts Likes Given: 0 Joined: Nov 2020 Reputation: 27 Analog FPV is like square wood tires.
80 years of experience broadcasting TV, and we are using the worst, most succeptible to noise method.
For digital, the big problem is latency. Especially video codec. Look at Zoom, Skype etc.. 50ms there is OK. And for processing you have i5 laptop with hardware acceleration. For RC hobby, need something under $50.
There is no low-latency focused codec. Yet. Posts: 321 Threads: 51 Likes Received: 123 in 88 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Nov 2017 Reputation: 6 (20-Dec-2020, 10:33 PM)romangpro Wrote: Analog FPV is like square wood tires.
80 years of experience broadcasting TV, and we are using the worst, most succeptible to noise method.
For digital, the big problem is latency. Especially video codec. Look at Zoom, Skype etc.. 50ms there is OK. And for processing you have i5 laptop with hardware acceleration. For RC hobby, need something under $50.
There is no low-latency focused codec. Yet. Challenge accepted. (I'm still in high school, hoping to study EE, maybe I'll work on something for the community later on...)  Posts: 115 Threads: 5 Likes Received: 40 in 28 posts Likes Given: 10 Joined: Dec 2019 Reputation: 3 I'm mostly digital now but there are a few reasons i still have some analog:
*Tiny whoops and ultralight 3" toothpick. Digital would have to get MUCH lighter for it to work here.
*When i want to have passengers. The goggles are too expensive for me to have two so until there´s a digital equivalent of the EV800Ds I'll keep an analog 5" around to give friends a ridealong.
I don't think a 20g digital whoop or a 100$ goggle is in the near or even medium distance future so I think analog will be around for a while yet. But one can only wish because everytime i fly analog I'm quite disappointed over the crap image. Posts: 1,489 Threads: 92 Likes Received: 574 in 468 posts Likes Given: 0 Joined: Nov 2020 Reputation: 27 (21-Dec-2020, 07:14 AM)raspberrypi33 Wrote: Challenge accepted. (I'm still in high school, hoping to study EE, maybe I'll work on something for the community later on...) If you did 30sec of googling, you easily found "low latency h264". Yes, you can encode in 50ms or even 30ms. Cheap RK3399, Ambarella V5 etc. But, look at size/cost of a 3" drone. Tiny size. Tiny power budget. Its an engineering challenge. • Posts: 321 Threads: 51 Likes Received: 123 in 88 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Nov 2017 Reputation: 6 (22-Dec-2020, 12:04 AM)romangpro Wrote: If you did 30sec of googling, you easily found "low latency h264". Yes, you can encode in 50ms or even 30ms. Cheap RK3399, Ambarella V5 etc.
But, look at size/cost of a 3" drone. Tiny size. Tiny power budget. Its an engineering challenge. 30ms is too high of a latency for FPV, especially when it comes to racing. I guess the harder part is scaling down the size of the system while reducing cost and latency. You are right, it is quite an engineering challenge. • Posts: 5,915 Threads: 47 Likes Received: 2,787 in 2,249 posts Likes Given: 7,709 Joined: Jul 2019 Reputation: 97 23-Dec-2020, 04:02 PM (This post was last modified: 23-Dec-2020, 04:06 PM by iFly4rotors.) (19-Dec-2020, 05:30 PM)voodoo614 Wrote: Digital video transmission is surely getting very popular. I think there will still be room for analog. Me, too. (20-Dec-2020, 04:50 AM)raspberrypi33 Wrote: I still love how analog is so simple and cheap. The ability to just solder a $15 cheapo transmitter that uses the good ol rtc6075 chip...nothing beats that. I would never put 150 bucks to a DJI systems because I'll just break it after I push it and crash. I'm a racer and value reliability and latency. That is why I stick with analog. Also keeps me in the air and out of the simulator longer because money...a problem most of us can relate to :-) I agree, it's all about the money. First, digital has clearly better video; that is not even debatable. It just is; period. On the other hand, the system is expensive, big, is not configurable {to my knowledge} and has more latency; oh yeah, and the range; 4K is just not sufficient for long range. How are going to get that 5K badge  In my opinion, the cost alone will keep many pilots {myself included} using analog for FPV for quite some time. Even though the Vista product is a little more cost effective, it is still too rich for my blood. Additionally, the goggles are WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. You might say, that some of the analog goggles are expensive and they are, but there are also many very good inexpensive goggles. In fact, there are some pretty cheap goggles {$50 US} that are actually pretty good. The truth is, you can build an analog system on a very tight budget and still have fun. In fact, you can build a half dozen or more drones having analog for what it costs just to have one digital quad. Until digital comes WAY down in cost, analog is still the poor man's ride. The system is also big in both size and weight. Even though I have seen whoops with the Vista digital video, that is overkill in my opinion. Yes, you can stuff those digital units into some of the more accommodating frames and throw on beefier motors, but at what expense. All of this just makes it more challenging for a sub 250 gram build, a racer, or an acro pilot. If you are just using the video portion, I have heard that there can be issues with the OSD. If you can't get what you want or need in the OSD, well that would just be **** annoying. If you are also using the controller, what about setting up your special switches and functions Or maybe you want to run dual cameras Now, how do you do that Right As mentioned, digital can go 4K; while that might be a lot for some, it is really not that far for the long range pilots. Plus, it won't get you that 5K badge. Now, if you have a business or can some how monetize the quad to pay for itself {can you say FAA, 107 pilot, Remote ID} then cost is less of an issue, but for just having fun it is just too much. Also, if you are just a consumer and don't really care about FPV or building, just buy it, fly it, and forget it. That said, I do believe that digital {at least video, not necessarily control}, will eventually get cheaper and used more often for FPV if you are not racing or doing acro stunts. What DJI needs is digital video competition to help drive costs down. Yeah, how about less expensive googles. I do not believe that digital control will progress as fast. Although drones in general might be moving to digital, I believe that analog will be around for a long time in the FPV world. Just my opinion  Posts: 219 Threads: 42 Likes Received: 74 in 60 posts Likes Given: 120 Joined: Aug 2020 Reputation: 2 23-Dec-2020, 11:39 PM (This post was last modified: 23-Dec-2020, 11:42 PM by Sphere.) Without competition from other players, DJI has no incentive to reduce prices significantly. They have already built a market base that will pony up for the goods. Maybe like Apple, there will just always be a DJI premium. Just speculating, but it doesn't seem like they will have any real competition in the near future.
I also believe that DJI is going to have to spend some large money to navigate through their current blacklisting problem. At the very least, this is going to be a very big distraction for the business. Posts: 1,489 Threads: 92 Likes Received: 574 in 468 posts Likes Given: 0 Joined: Nov 2020 Reputation: 27 Literally anybody can do what DJI did.
Its not rocket science. And ofcourse there are like 5+ "others"...
but with current DRONE LAWS,
and relatively tiny market, what incentive would you have?
Japan is moving to regulate drones above 100g, instead of 200g. You thought 250g limit was bad!
100g.
And its not free for all for whoops. Long list of rules, including privacy.. and just think about it. If public parks are off limits, and 30m away from buildings and people.. you would need to drive 2hr+ from Tokyo to fly. Posts: 321 Threads: 51 Likes Received: 123 in 88 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Nov 2017 Reputation: 6 (24-Dec-2020, 01:50 AM)romangpro Wrote: Literally anybody can do what DJI did.
Its not rocket science. And ofcourse there are like 5+ "others"...
but with current DRONE LAWS,
and relatively tiny market, what incentive would you have?
Japan is moving to regulate drones above 100g, instead of 200g. You thought 250g limit was bad!
100g.
And its not free for all for whoops. Long list of rules, including privacy.. and just think about it. If public parks are off limits, and 30m away from buildings and people.. you would need to drive 2hr+ from Tokyo to fly. Man am I glad to be in America, land of the Free...at least for now... Posts: 1,507 Threads: 49 Likes Received: 714 in 525 posts Likes Given: 478 Joined: Oct 2020 Reputation: 93 24-Dec-2020, 07:46 AM (This post was last modified: 24-Dec-2020, 07:59 AM by V-22.) (23-Dec-2020, 04:02 PM)iFly4rotors Wrote: oh yeah, and the range; 4K is just not sufficient for long range. How are going to get that 5K badge As of the last firmware update when they added the 50Mbps mode to the DJI FPV system, they got rid of the 4km limit. Here is a video of someone going 10km: https://youtu.be/4X8ExuJWt6E?t=247 Edit: I think the limit is now 8 miles? Posts: 4,550 Threads: 38 Likes Received: 1,245 in 1,064 posts Likes Given: 430 Joined: Aug 2020 Reputation: 118 (24-Dec-2020, 01:50 AM)romangpro Wrote: Literally anybody can do what DJI did.
Its not rocket science. And ofcourse there are like 5+ "others"...
but with current DRONE LAWS,
and relatively tiny market, what incentive would you have?
Japan is moving to regulate drones above 100g, instead of 200g. You thought 250g limit was bad!
100g.
And its not free for all for whoops. Long list of rules, including privacy.. and just think about it. If public parks are off limits, and 30m away from buildings and people.. you would need to drive 2hr+ from Tokyo to fly. For Digital FPV: Someone will come up with something better, smaller, cheaper. Its a matter of time. There is always a way to work within the regulations. Surely in Tokyo you have indoor stadiums or covered car parks where people could fly under the radar or even get approval for it. • |
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