Still reading your post, but to spread OSD elements out all over the bigger HD screen requires BetaFlight 4.4 where they added an HD option to the OSD setup tab (this in addition to NTSC, PAL, and Auto).

I’ve avoided going to 4.4 due to all the nasty bugs I keep hearing about. Actually the nasty bugs started in 4.3 motors tab, but that’s another topic.

And yes, digital video files are huge. If you want them to look good on YouTube you need to render them at 25-50 Mbps and that 2160x1080 resolution. Many prefer to render at some 1440p resolution (which also triggers the better YouTube codec) but at that larger resolution you will need even more Mbps for that video to look good. Most of my 3.5 min vids are at least 1.5G and 2160x1080. Upload speeds of your internet setup will definitely affect how you approach this issue. This is a negative aspect of HD digital FPV videos …

You could try adding some tpa to help with your high throttle oscillations. Try .75 and see if it helps. You could probably add a little more D gain to help with the remaining prop wash. Otherwise it looks good! Seems to have quite a bit of power on tap too.

(27-Jul-2023, 12:16 PM)QuadFlyer68 Wrote: Most of my 3.5 min vids are at least 1.5G and 2160x1080.  Upload speeds of your internet setup will definitely affect how you approach this issue.  This is a negative aspect of HD digital FPV videos …

Sounds like Lemony has what I had about 20 years ago in terms of upload speeds.  Like maybe 128-256kb/sec.  It used to take me a long time to upload a 700mb file (read that as hours).  The downside of living rurally.  Still it's better than the days when downloading a 700mb file on a 33.6k modem would take 12-14 hours (and you had to have a download manager because ISP's over here disconnected you after 2 hours).  P2P was the best thing to happen for downloading back then.

Lukeman- thanks! I’ll give that a shot Saturday evening. I’ll probably put a different canopy on it first, so that I’m not potentially trying to tune out anything caused by the jacked up canopy.

Quadflyer- I’ll try rendering them at that higher resolution, but, I dunno how well that’ll work with the uploading.

Pathfinder- yeah, speed test says my current upload speed is 0.39Mbps. Yeah, definitely still better than dialup, but, still brutally slow. Especially since I was on fiber before moving out to the middle of nowhere. Download managers were great things. Significantly reduced the frustration when doing a long download.

The video through my goggles, as well as the dvr footage, is *significantly* clearer than whatever YouTube did to it. I don’t have any of that pixelation, and things look much clearer.

My osd doesn’t look like that in flight either- when I picked a random font to put the osd back into the recorded video, it got larger and offset to the left. I am running bf4.4, and I do have hd selected on the osd tab- but my osd elements aren’t anywhere near the edges of the screen. It’s like they’re stuck in a 4:3 box, but my video is 16:9. I’m assuming it’s some setting I’m missing.

Looks like I need to consider new batteries sometime in the future, I’m getting a significant amount of sag.

Alright.

I tried some preset tunes. I tried modifying some preset tunes.
I finally decided screw it, I should just actually tune this thing.
I've been putting off learning how to tune for over a year. I'm not sure why I was so intimidated by tuning, but, I was. 
It's not as hard or complicated as I thought it was.

Anyhow. This build is pretty damn clean. I was either able to aggressively tune it, or, I don't know what i'm doing.

I was able to disable gyro lowpass 1, and kick the gyro filter multiplier up to 2.
Dropped d gains/damping down to 0.75.

Master multiplier all the way up to 2. So, maybe my initial p/d ratio needs some work? Damping was as low as it could go without bounceback, then brought back up one notch.

Motors are coming down warm, not hot.
This thing is tracking my sticks better than anything else I've built- but it's also the first one I've tried to tune. This aio doesn't have blackbox, so this is a by ear, feel the motors, kind of thing.



Here's the issue- using presets, altering presets, starting from scratch and tuning, I've got the same problem- throughout the entire tuning process as well as on presets. When I give it throttle, the video shakes a bit. 
I don't know much about tuning, but it seems to me like if was a frame issue, a bent shaft issue, or a prop issue, I wouldn't be able to push things that high? I think I'd start getting runaways, hot motors, or crunchy motors.

So, I'm thinking that leaves a camera or camera mount issue. I did change from that broken canopy to a 3d printed one, and that helped a lot with some of the larger shakes. This is my first digital build- I don't know if it's normal for a digital cam to blur out and shake a bit when you hit the throttle hard?

No video tonight, because by the time I finished trying to tune this thing it was dark, and this 1s walksnail doesn't do well in the dark.

Wednesday night I'll do a daylight flight and see how it does. I'm currently rebuilding my RoninUAV 3" Sohei to try out that NeutronRC 35A aio on 4s with larger 1506 motors, so if I've still got those jitters, I might end up slapping an analog cam in this build and putting this 1s walksnail vtx in the Sohei where it'll have a proper stiff cam cage.

This Toothfairy is flying *really* well, I just can't deal with this shake every time I give it throttle.

Those of you with tuning experience, I could really use your feedback here.

Try the following:

Lower TPA breakpoint by a 100 or 200.
dynamic Damping to 0
D to 1.1
P to 1
drift/wobble to 1.1

Hi ph2t,

Where is that "drift/wobble" setting located? 

Sounds like something that I could use.

Later, My Good Friend, iFly  

Glad you got it flying better! Bummer on the camera vibes. Does it only shake on punch outs or does it do it during mid throttle cruising too?

One thing id check is the camera lens itself. Make sure the lens housing isn't loose on the camera body and make sure the glass isn't loose on the lens itself.

You could also check the sensor board screws and make sure those are tight too.

If all looks well, The only other thing I can think of is to add tpa until you don't get the vibrations on the higher throttle. Stock is .65 at 1350. You could bump it up to .75 or .8 at 1400 to see if it helps. Shouldn't affect your tune that much. Just lowers your pids as your throttle goes up.

It shakes anytime I change throttle, and it’s a steady shake from mid throttle on. I need to get some daylight flights in Wednesday evening, and then I’ll try your and ph2t’s suggestions.

I’ll record and post some video Wednesday, but, I’m really thinking this isn’t a tune thing, this is a cam or cam mount thing.

I did a few short flights to kick off the night, around 30 seconds each, pushing it a bit to see how the shakes and motor temps do.

1st flight of the night: I tried a quick daylight flight with my tune as it was, because it's really hard to see what's going on in the dark.

2nd flight: Dropped dynamic damping down to zero. Dropped master multiplier down to 1.8, because motors were a bit hot last flight.

3rd: Increased drift/wobble (I-gains) to 1.2.

4th: Messed with TPA. Increased it to 0.75. Left breakpoint at 1350.
None of the above has made a difference. Here's a short clip that shows the shake/wobble I'm trying to get rid of. Edges of my canopy are in view- I don't want to trim them back because then my cam lens will be exposed in a crash. I need to modifiy this canopy in tinkercad and make it flare out to get out of view while still protecting the cam. Any time I throttle up at all, you'll see the wobbles/shakes.
It's flying f-ing great, it's just that damn video shake. I'm going to email Caddx and see if this is normal. I didn't upscale. In real life, the video is significantly clearer, and the wobbles are more pronounced.


I probably wouldn't notice these shakes at all on analog, but, I can see it on digital.

5th: Before I drop my master multiplier back to 1 and start messing with my p/d balance again, I'm gonna try some lower pitch props. I'm not looking for less thrust, but, I am asking a lot out of these tiny motors. I put some Avan Scimitars on it, they're 1.9" pitch. If it seems better, I've got some HQ T2.5x3.5x3 I'll try out.
Ooooh... hey, those shakes/wobbles/blur is actually a bit better. Still not great, still there, but, better.
At this point, I'm really thinking it's a camera issue. I've tried a couple different canopies. I've tried betaflight defaults, presets, and my own custom tune- and none of those made a damn bit of difference. I could be wrong, but, I think if it was a tune issue, I would have seen some difference in the wobbles between any or all of those changes.
I've watched a number of walksnail flight footage on the youtube, and while there is a bit of motion blur, there isn't the severe wobbles that I'm getting.

If it was a problem with my build, I don't think I'd be able to tune it near as aggressivly as I can.

Anyhow, here's a full flight with the low pitch scimitars.
This thing really does fly well, but apparently my current vtx antenna or antenna position does not like that little alley between my house and the fence.
This thing is going to take like 2 hours to upscale to 4k on my laptop, and probably another 4+ hours to actually upload to the youtube.
It looks significantly better. You can't really see the wobbles as bad in the video below, or at least, you couldn't before I upscaled and uploaded it- but it is there in flight. Not as severe as in the short clip above, but, same issue.


Maybe I'm just being nitpicky and trying to tune out a thing that is normal and that I wouldn't have noticed with crappier video? I dunno.

Unrelated side note, but, folks, try hard to not twitch and stab your thumb with your soldering iron. It's less than pleasant.

iFly- Drift/Wobble is in the PID tuning tab in BF v4.3 and higher. It's your I-gains. Increasing it can make you stop getting pushed around by the wind and whatnot. If you go too high, it can cause oscillations.

Hi Lemony,

Nice flight videos.  

I kept looking for any twitches or wobbles or anything, but didn't see anything.
Either my eyes are not seeing them or my brain is smoothing them out. Either way. 
Looks good to me.

Later, My Good Friend, iFly  

Are you still running the NeutronRC board with the stock ATBetaflight? I had a similar issue with mine on 4S, but the wobbles are a lot more violent as soon as I pass a certain point on the throttle even if I ramp up very slowly. The larger motors/props throws the PID loop into whack, but I could see it being a similar issue - on 3S its less noticable but appears as yaw twitch/drift and on 2S it seems to be gone. The AM32 dev suggested dropping the master multiplier, but haven't had a chance to test that yet.

And your wobbles definitely not normal.

Thanks for confirmation mstc. I didn’t think the wobbles were normal, but, this is my first experience with digital, so I wasn’t sure what to expect.

At first I thought it was throbbles and prop wash, until I started trying to tune it out and realized it’s happening in forward flight as well.

I sent of an email to Caddx support with the shorter video clip to ask if they have any suggestions. Caddx has been amazing with their support in the past, so I’m sure I’ll hear back sometime this coming week.

I’m not currently using the NeutronRC aio in this build. I was having too many issues on the esc side of it with lower voltage and these smaller motors, so this now has a Diatone F411 aio. I really wish it had blackbox or a free uart to put an OpenLager on it, but, nope.

As far as the NeutronRC aio, I’m in the process of rebuilding my 3” Sohei MK2- it’s going into that to see how it does on 4s with 1506 4300kv motors.

Edit- when I was running the NeutronRC aio, I was getting those violent wobbles you’re talking about as well with the esc firmware that came installed with the board. They went away with hf32 firmware, but the lack of power didn’t.

In that case, it could be how the camera is mounted. If there is any play in the camera mount or if the canopy is too flexy, that could lead to shakes. You have the lite camera with no screw holes or the nano camera with? Also the Emax props tend to enhance vibes a lot more even if they are lightly banged up, if you have some other props, maybe Gemfans might be worth a swap.

I have the cam with screw holes. So far I’ve tried an injection molded plastic canopy and a tpu printed one. The tpu printed one is a design I’ve used on multiple builds with no issues, but, maybe digital cams are more susceptible to vibrations?

I’ve tried Azure Power props and Emax Scimitars. I also tried out some HQ props last night while that video was uploading, but, hard to tell if it made a difference in the dark.