My current flying is literally within my own property boundary, but since I live in a city and not a millionaire I'll be with 50m of people, buildings and traffic wherever I am on my plot!
I searched for exemptions relating to private land but didn't see any reference to it.

I am planning on flying in a forest, pretty remote but not quite the middle of nowhere, but certainly very stealthy.

I'm not in any clubs, or member of any organisations as my aim has always been just to keep myself to myself and amuse myself only - as much with the technical side of building/programming as flying. I'm at a tipping point where I would like more gear, a new radio and some parts but reading the above and being very law abiding I am concerned the whole thing could just be a waste of time and money and put me in situations I don't want to be in. As above, very unfortunately it does seem to be quite a 'show'!

(23-Dec-2022, 02:32 AM)Pathfinder075 Wrote: I guess since almost everything we now do is illegal, it opens up the board, so things people would not have considered doing in the past because they are illegal are now irrelevant, because almost everything is illegal.  So if you want to dive tower bridge or any number of other crazy things, you might as well just do it (from a boat on the Thames if you have brains).

If you are not already on the 2A bandwagon..   Welcome to the club.  So many ridiculous rules, that do absolutely nothing to give real criminals any deterrent.   Lots of people I know have just said "eff it"..  and do what I want..

(09-Jan-2023, 11:19 PM)Diggery Wrote: I searched for exemptions relating to private land but didn't see any reference to it.

There are no exemptions for flying on private land but with a sub-250g quad you can fly over buildings and closer to people than 50m (including over them) even without Article 16 exemptions as long as you respect people's privacy, but even when piloting a sub-250g drone which has an onboard camera you are still required to be registered with the CAA and be in possession of an Operator ID if you want to fly legally.

Finding all the relevant documents on the CAA website and then the rules within those documents is a complete minefield. They've made things so complicated that even a seasoned / certified pilot can struggle to actually find the information they are looking for. A newcomer to the scene has almost no chance of finding what they need, let alone understanding it all.

This is why a majority of FPV pilots are just saying eff it, taking their chances, and continuing to fly (safely) the way they always have. But in doing so you put yourself at risk of getting a fine along with a criminal record if you get caught.

(09-Jan-2023, 11:19 PM)Diggery Wrote: I'm at a tipping point where I would like more gear, a new radio and some parts but reading the above and being very law abiding I am concerned the whole thing could just be a waste of time and money and put me in situations I don't want to be in.

I seem to go through phases of haemorrhaging money on FPV gear and often ask myself why the hell I'm spending so much on a hobby when going out to try and have a bit of safe fun with my toys is just becoming more and more of a hassle as time goes on. I currently have an hour's round trip of walking to get to and from my usual flying location in the middle of nowhere, only to end up feeling like an out and out criminal the whole time I'm there. There is something seriously wrong with this country.

(09-Jan-2023, 11:19 PM)Diggery Wrote: My current flying is literally within my own property boundary, but since I live in a city and not a millionaire I'll be with 50m of people, buildings and traffic wherever I am on my plot!  
I searched for exemptions relating to private land but didn't see any reference to it.

I am planning on flying in a forest, pretty remote but not quite the middle of nowhere, but certainly very stealthy.

I'm not in any clubs, or member of any organisations as my aim has always been just to keep myself to myself and amuse myself only - as much with the technical side of building/programming as flying.  I'm at a tipping point where I would like more gear, a new radio and some parts but reading the above and being very law abiding I am concerned the whole thing could just be a waste of time and money and put me in situations I don't want to be in. As above, very unfortunately it does seem to be quite a 'show'!

I also fly on my property..  I am lucky to live on 9 acres, mostly wooded, and adjacent to a large state preserve.   The preserve does limit flying to permits, but it would take a lot of effort to find me if I did get caught over the boundary.   (not that I would do that)..

Funny how lots of people don't care what laws affect someone else's hobby, but infringe on something they care about, and the butthurt flares up pretty fast..

SnowLeopard - thanks very much for your thoughts and comments. I pondered before posting as in some communities I have participated in, if anyone displays a lack of understanding of the 'rules', (written or not) and wish to carry on regardless (while obeying "Rule #1" don't be a 'fool') it would lead to a flaming. It seems even from my relative lack of experience we are in the same boat - a wish to be safe but not bound by almost impossible requirements.

I have extensive experience of working with (reading, interpreting and even drafting) technical documents and struggled to get a clear picture from the CAA what is and isn't allowed. It seems the answer is "almost nothing"! I would have written it with a clear type identifier for drones, then a simple matrix of regulations in bullet point as a quick reference table or flow chart.

Typically what happens is the conscientious and thoughtful folk like I can see on here are sticking to the law and suffering whereas the ones the law is actually aimed at are not even aware it, or not complying. I've been out to the Peak District National Park and seen several drones out at once hovering over the honey pot villages, I saw someone overfly Windsor Castle (!!!!) with a DJI and one boxing day several large quads with open props being flown by kids and launching from a park near crowds. I can understand these need regulating but it also seems mad that by the letter of the law someone is a criminal for lying a 30g whoop in a garden!

I read the FPV handbook and it is a good read and much more helpful than the CAA site;
https://fpvuk.org/files/FPV-UK-Handbook-2022-v1.3.pdf

Looks like to be as protected as possible one would need an operator ID, CAA fee, FPVUK membership and a spotter for FPV or participate in a race at a sterile location (organised, taped, redistricted access).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-de...214988.amp

Right on queue this pops up, I'll be watching with interest.

Will be interesting to see what the sentence is, since all the regulations state "up to life imprisonment" which of course would only be where wilful negligence caused loss of life.

A bit like CE (now UKCA here!) marking where failure to comply could lead to fines and imprisonment. Fines are given but prison is there as a last resort, or as a consultant put to me, "to focus the mind"!

(10-Jan-2023, 07:46 PM)Diggery Wrote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-de...214988.amp

Right on queue this pops up, I'll be watching with interest.

Will be interesting to see what the sentence is, since all the regulations state "up to life imprisonment" which of course would only be where wilful negligence caused loss of life.

That story was covered by Sean on his livestream yesterday (linked below). To be fair the guy should have the book thrown at him because he was flying in a totally unsafe area (no fly zone) and irresponsibly. They will likely make an example of him so that others take notice, but unfortunately stories like this just make the general public hate drones even more than they already do so they do nothing to promote the hobby as something which is generally safe (when responsible pilots are behind the sticks).

I mean, I fully agree with all of this from that article:

"As a police drone unit, we know the benefits drones can bring to society but people using a drone in this way not only threaten the safety of aircraft and the public, they also damage the future use of drones."
Jonathan Nicholson, assistant director at the UK Civil Aviation Authority, said: "Flying a drone and endangering an aircraft in this way is totally unacceptable.
"While flying a drone can be great fun, it also comes with significant responsibilities.
"People need to check airspace before they fly their drone and only fly where it is safe and legal to do so."


At least there was an emphasis on the bad drone user, rather than just, “drones are bad, mmmkay?”

But yeah, it’ll become the poster child for even more regulations for you folks, and probably for us here across the pond as well.

Thanks
Totally agree and that's my worry too

I also ride bikes and the media love to jump on the cyclist and the public pile on. At least I'm used to it!

Diggery Wrote:SnowLeopard - thanks very much for your thoughts and comments. I pondered before posting as in some communities I have participated in, if anyone displays a lack of understanding of the 'rules', (written or not) and wish to carry on regardless (while obeying "Rule #1" don't be a 'fool') it would lead to a flaming. It seems even from my relative lack of experience we are in the same boat - a wish to be safe but not bound by almost impossible requirements.

This is IntoFPV, not Grey Arrows.

Although I tend to speak my mind even over there and I know I am hated for it, but you know what, zero fks given.

I think if you fly in an area that's enclosed, where a drone can't get out, you are still free to fly without a spotter. So I guess, if you fly in a sports hall, that would be an exemption for the spotter rule, but you would probably have many if in a sports hall.

But I think the vast majority of the FPV guys will just go about doing it in a stealthy manner. Whether by flying in the middle of nowhere, or flying smaller quads that don't stand out or maybe flying at night in well lit areas. I think you can easily get away with ripping a small toothpick or whoop in most supermarket car parks, if you find an empty area. No one would even bat an eyelid. Same goes for most supermarket car parks at night. Some car parks and underground car parks can be good places to fly. In fact if you really think about it, there are loads of places that you can fly, where no one will care (or maybe want to go anywhere near).

I keep looking for places and have a couple of new ones out in the Peak District that are potentially good places. Generally I find if there are signs up saying Danger of Death or similar, most people will avoid going near them and as long as you accept and understand the danger, generally they aren't as bad as the sign makes out.

The other thing to do, especially in Spring/Summer/Autumn is go fly at 4-5am. Some places and bandos are best flown really early. So get to them really early, rip a few packs and go. Doesn't work in Winter so much, but we are about 3 months away from the start of brighter mornings.

I was reading about sterile area to see what this would cover and see that CAA don't have jurisdiction indoors, so at least I can fly in my house

I've found a few secret spots that I've ridden past and thought they'd be great to fly, but too far for me to go just to do that.

I'm a night owl, I'd be more likely to still be up at 4 rather than getting up early! No matter how good the spot that's but happening for me. Great idea though.

In your house, in a large sports hall, large warehouse, in fact any sealed building. I suspect if you draped a large net over an area, you could even argue the toss on that meeting the regs.

Like everyone I have a couple of spots here and there that I know are fairly safe to fly at. I'm not against even walking into the middle of a forest and flying there, trees make it more interesting.

Some of the best places can be found by looking on https://geograph.org.uk and using your imagination for search terms. You can easily find many spots, of all types. Google Maps will only take you so far.

CAA to charge the drone community £379k more per year

From 01/04/2023 the CAA intends to increase its registration fee by 13.5%.

Its rounding-up policy takes the fee from £10 to £12 – a 20% increase.

This follows an 11% increase from £9 to £10 last year.
=31% over two years

Here's The Link

I'm not paying it. They can go fk themselves. They get enough money as it is.

This scheme could be run in a much better way at less cost by running it in the same way Driving Licenses are issued. Instead of unnecessary changes every year and needing to re-register every year. You pay for a licence once every 5 years and your operator id remains the same. Everything done by computer. The cost of running the scheme would be a server with a database in a datacentre. Very little of what they do regarding hobbyists requires manpower. Even less requires £380k/year.

I mean, they have to pay for the extra enforcement somehow…

Plus, it takes a lot of money to decide on and write new regulations.



“Activities such as regulatory rulemaking or work to prepare the CAA for the innovative products that will reach the aviation market in the near future are for the benefit of industry as a whole, or large sections of it. Therefore, the most appropriate course of action for these charges is to seek a contribution from all applicable charge payers via a general price increase against each relevant charging scheme, recognising that a regulator working in a proactive manner to address the challenges of future changes to aviation in the UK is to the benefit of the entire community.”

How are those benefits feeling?