:-) waiting for your 4inch build thread :-)

Could not wait till I got home from work so here it is: https://intofpv.com/t-4-inch-freestyler-...ons-inside

Been busy catching up on any missed YT videos tonight. Here's another review of the GEPRC Dolphin from Andy...

4" Micro Aliens, Rotorgeeks 1407 3200kv/HQ 4433 V1S, Spedix IS35/RadixLi, Pro32 Nano/micro regulator@9V, Predator4 Micro, 750mAh 4S and 850mAh 3S, with Matek SAM-M8Q, safely under 250g. Definitely the way to go for stasi-free "long-range" or micro-power-freestyle.

Anyway, yeah, 4" is pretty nice. Really don't like undermounting batteries personally otherwise the Dolphin looks pretty swank. Get on it.

(31-Dec-2019, 12:56 AM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: GEPRC are banging out quality micros like there's no tomorrow. The 3-inch GEPRC Skip is another top micro (HERE). Way too much choice in the PNP/BNF micro world now. Maybe that's a good thing, but which one to choose? 

However, I do have to take issue with them labelling the 4-inch GEPRC Dolphin as a "Toothpick" 

Hi Snow, I have been following the "toothpick" revolution, Kabab growing the "toothpick" size, and the FAA "hammer"; consider, as we move forward, it could be that any open prop quad with an "all of" weight less than 250g will be considered a "toothpick"...regardless of prop size. To me, that seems to be where we are headed.

kabab invented fpv xD
all the ones which never touched micros befor kabab start marketing, they truly beleive the ulnanos doesnt exist befor kabab give it a try and publish, its a shame!

(02-Feb-2020, 04:31 PM)hugnosed_bat Wrote: kabab invented fpv xD
all the ones which never touched micros befor kabab start marketing, they truly beleive the ulnanos doesnt exist befor kabab give it a try and publish, its a shame!

Although I have not seen nearly all of Kabab's videos, I do watch a lot of them. Whether or not he coined the term toothpick, I have not really seen anything close to a specification; nothing to say what really defines a toothpick. Kabab, himself, has a 3 inch "toothpick" and I believe he is working on TP4. Truth is, if you take a 3 inch (or even 2.5 inch) and put all of the components on a frame large enough to handle 4 inch props... wow ... 4 inch toothpick. I have a set of 3 inch arms that I am using on a custom fabricated center section with spacing to accommodate 4 inch props. All of the electronics are GepRC Phantom (except the RunCam Nano camera). I have even found some HQProp T-mount 4 inch props that will fit the 11xx and 12xx motors. My goal is to have a light weight (sub 250g) with extended flight time. Will let you know how it turns out.


2020-04-08 Update:  

HQProp is now producing a 5" T-mount bi-blade prop.  

I have found a whole bunch of 5" toothpick videos, frames, kits, etc. The 5" toothpick is a reality.  
Question is...can we go to a 7" toothpick?

I did also see a Kabab video in which he indicated that his concept of a "toothpick" was whoop electronics (26x26 diagonal) on a lightweight, open prop, frame which he has developed to be a "true" X with skinny arms and very minimal body. Yeah. the central body section looks like a tiny whoop. Basically, it is the tiny whoop diagonal board with camera on top...tiny whoop canopies and camera mounts also fit these "toothpick" frames.  

kabab is a dentist, seems he provide frames, he always name them dentist related; floss, toothpick, glide

its a poor sign for our hobby, we name a whole category like one single frame. as tp get that much attantion and replaced the category name "ultralight micro" or even "ultralight"-in general.

there is trend and hype, shenzen players does force every hype.
reputable manufacturers like matek hobbywing or aikon doesnt jump on that train, they still focus 30x30/20x20. as example armattan doesnt produce frames for aios, they does 16x16mm tadpole, only do the request its got an adapter.

there are some darksides on the hype, attraction stays over the functionality

(04-Nov-2022, 10:21 AM)hugnosed_bat Wrote: kabab is a dentist, seems he provide frames, he always name them dentist related; floss, toothpick, glide

From what I could tell the name "toothpick" came from the concept of using skinny little arms that
looked like "toothpicks". OK, well "floss" does seem to be directly related to teeth, but I just considered
that to be a particular frame rather than a category or frame style like "toothpick" has become. It is
my perception that the quad "community" embraced the name rather than the manufacturers; just
like the name "tiny whoop". If the community did not embrace it, then it would not have survived.

its a poor sign for our hobby, we name a whole category like one single frame. as tp get that much attantion and replaced the category name "ultralight micro" or even "ultralight"-in general.

Why is it a poor sign  Actually, I don't think these names have replaced the "ultralight category,
but it is more of a "sub-category" of frame types within the larger category. Consider that all of the different
variants are part of the "ultralight" category, however, the terms like freestyle, toothpick, whoop, cinewhoop, 
and box indicate the frame "type" and they are all pretty different in design. 

there is trend and hype, shenzen players does force every hype.
reputable manufacturers like matek hobbywing or aikon doesnt jump on that train, they still focus 30x30/20x20. as example armattan doesnt produce frames for aios, they does 16x16mm tadpole, only do the request its got an adapter.

I guess that I am confused about the "Hype". What "Hype" are we talking about?  Care to elaborate? 

While Matek and Hobbywing might be reputable manufacturers, I DO NOT put Aikon in this same
category. Aikon can't even produce a simple wiring diagram and their support sucks, plus they LIE !!
In fact, Aikon appears to be a "one-man-show".  I certainly would NOT consider them reputable. 

there are some darksides on the hype, attraction stays over the functionality

Hi Bat,

You have some interesting thoughts here. I guess my confusion comes from "What Hype" ??
and What Darksides?? You know, things change and sometimes new categories or sub-categories
come into being as a method to differentiate one thing or another. We could just call them all
drones and be done with it. However, having categories or words that differentiate a 4 motor
quadcopter from a single engine wing help one to visualize the difference between these two
types of "drones". Then you just have quadcopters or quads. Why not just leave it there? Well
these little quads come out with whoops. Why not call them "Tiny Whoops"...to indicate in a 
name that they are "tiny" and they have whoop type prop guards. Are these the same quads as 
a 5 inch Freestyle?? Is it not good to have words to differentiate these two, quite different,
styles or designs of quads. Now, we also have cinewhoops...yet another sub-category but,
still quite a bit different form the Freestyle and tiny whoops. For me, it is good to have words
that provide a perception or concept of the different types of quads or frame types. 

Anyway, just my thoughts...  

To add to the 4” build stuff..
I accidentally built a 4” freestyle rig recently with stuff I had.. and it came in at 252g w/ a 650 4s lipo.. and the best part.. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE flying it! So much so I may “invest” in a surplus of 20x20 30a ESCs..
I have several 30x30 stacks, but only found ONE 4” frame that will accommodate it.. and it’s a racer.. there are a few 4” freestyle frames I want to look at, see if I can get a 30x30 to fit.. or ATLEAST 25x25 for my HDzero or walksnail..
The Avan simitar 4” props fly great, so do the HQ(I think gemfans)..
I am ALL ABOUT 4” builds….

Hi Rob,

So, you are "moving on up" ... "to the east side"..."to a DE-luxe appartment in the skyyy"...
or something like that 

As you may know, I have been building 4 inch quads for a couple of years now. For me
the 4 inch frame is quite versitile and can be configured pretty much to any goal or
type of flying. The 4 inch supports everthing from sub-250 gram, long range, freestyle,
or what ever you need it to be. My 4 inch builds are my favorite ones, but they do need
a bit of "space" to stretch out. When I have the space, I will generally go for a 4 inch.

Yeah, you might have to make an adapter plate to get some stacks into some of the
frames especially 30x30 stacks as these seem to geared for larger and heavier builds.
Pick your poison. I have come to like the 1/16 inch thick Lexan plastic for making plates
as it can be cut with a saw or even a knife...just score it good and break it {like you would
glass}. I have other material that I have used including carbon fiber, fiberglass, and an
assortment of "free" plastic from various containers, but for plates, the Lexan has become
my preferred material. 

Now, have you ever considered fabricating your own frame??  

You know, I don't have a CNC milling machine, nor a 3D printer, nor any CAD program; 
so I am taking the "Handyman Special". A frame doesn't have to be complex. In fact, 
you could just buy some arms and cut the central frame plates that you need...simple 
rectangles, drill some holes. By purchasing the arms and only fabricating the plates, 
it keeps things a bit simpler and you don't have to do any precision drilling. 
Just a thought... 

By the way, for these types of frame plates; I would likely use the 1/8 inch Lexan.
On the other hand, any suitable material that you are comfortable working with will do.

No need to design my own frame, why re-invent the wheel?.. The 4” frame, I accidentally built is the AlfaRC 175 fighter, it is a great, reasonably priced ($25) frame (IMO), but the only place I can locate it is Aliexpress.. I tried contacting cyclonefpv (where It came from) for more.. but they have not responded. Fitting the 30x30 isn’t gonna be that difficult, I was just hoping someone made a bottom plate that would accommodate them.. “making stuff work” is what i do when I can’t afford or find a solution..
I TOTALLY get the form factor of the 4” ..5” rigs seem so “heavy” when they fly. Also WHEN u crash, you know it!!!!! The intimidation factor to bystanders is quite a lot less with 4” flyers compared to 5” rigs.
Then again.. with HDzero and Walksnail’s VTXs being 25x25…maybe someone will drop a 4” freestyle frame with mounts for them soon. Or ATLEAST offer a bottom plate

(04-Nov-2022, 10:21 AM)hugnosed_bat Wrote: as example armattan doesnt produce frames for aios, they does 16x16mm tadpole, only do the request its got an adapter.

I am putting an AIO on my Tadpole frame and got the adapter. The problem is that the adapter blocks the usb port. I am having to mount the FC upside down...