Hi all! I've got some questions regarding my first build. 

I am interested in making a 6s 5" freestyle build with the DJI system.

Gear I already own

• FrSky x9lite (would have to buy a crossfire module)
  
• High end lipo 2-6s battery charger/balancer w/ lipo bags
  

There are two main paths I'm thinking about going, PNP or building a quad myself. 

Here's a build that seems pretty good:  

• https://rotorbuilds.com/build/26301
  
• Armattan Marmotte DJI Ediiton
  
• Diatone Mamba F405 DJI Stack - F50 50A 3-6S 4-in-1 ESC
  
• IFLIGHT XING-E 2207 1800 KV
  
• HQ Prop Ethix P3 5.1x3x3 Tri-Blade 5" Prop 4 Pack - Peanut Butter & Jelly
  
• Caddx Vista HD Digital System
  
• TBS CROSSFIRE NANO RX
  
• DJI FPV goggles
  

If the PNP route is better I would consider maybe a Nazgul5 HD or Diatone Roma F5 HD.

Questions: 

1. I have about 50 hours in Liftoff and I think I'll have 100 by the time winter is over (Michigan), would this setup be too much of a jump from the simulator?
   
2. Would PNP or building be a better idea for a newbie? I've been interested in FPV since 2019 so I think I know how to build and address issues (thanks joshua bardwell!)
   
3. If building is better, would the one I made be too high end?
   
4. There are a lot of prop options, is the norm just to buy a bunch of different brands and figure out what you like?
   

I'd appreciate any advice and am very open to changes. Thanks in advance!

The Marmotte is a top of the line frame.The camera cage on most of the Armattan quads is hands down one of the best looking. You can’t replace just an arm. I think the pro’s out weigh the cons. I don’t personally believe any of the cons I’ve mentioned except the price. It’s just what I’ve heard mentioned. You get what you pay for. Some would say it’s to much but I don’t know of any other manufacture that will replace if you break lifetime warranty. In my opinion this is probably not a great first quad. Especially if you don’t build it yourself, I think it will be quite difficult to put back together after a crash. Most peeps on here will say get the cheapest throw away quad but spend the dollars on the equipment you won’t crash. Like radio, googles you won’t have to replace for a long time. If money’s not an object I’d say go for it. I think you’ll find it’s easier to fly than the liftoff simulator. Just start off LOS and get the hang of hovering and moving around a bit. Just don’t fly towards you as controls are backwards. Stay behind it for maximum control and viewing pleasure.Not to close though..it’s a powerful machine and could be in your face in micro seconds. After you get the hang of that put the googles on and away you go. Best bet is to get it up as they say 2 mistakes high. It is hard to fly slow and land in fpv cause it’s difficult to see directly below you. I think a lot of us just get it like a foot off the ground and disarm to land. That way all the grass and dirt don’t get planted in the electronics.

Pro’s
Great looking
Strong, very good carbon fiber
Chamfered edges 
Excellent metal titanium camera cage
Great mounting for camera
Separate adjustable HD camera and flight camera angles
Uses 5.5” props

Con’s
One of the most expensive frames out there
Unibody construction, arms cannot be swapped out (I think this is good though imo)
It’s a squashed deck so it’s a tight fit for components 20mm height
It’s on the heavy side

I think either way presents you with pros and cons. I always encourage people to build. You get a better understanding on how things work and you can repair things more easily. I think Armattan, although expensive, does make a great first quad frame. Lifetime warranty. But shipping does cost. I always recommend you still buy spare arms to replace. And bundle replacement parts to reduce shipping cost. In case of unibody frame, I usually don't bother with spares.

I think I would recommend to anyone that either their first or second quad should be home built because even though prebuilts are getting very good and very cheap, building one gave me confidence to tackle any repairs or mods. Since you have a while until you're gonna start flying... well you definitely have time to learn to build and betaflight and all of that
I was actually in your shoes a few years ago and I ordered a tinywhoop to practice indoors until spring and also parts so I could build my first one and I feel it gave me a good start.

Hi Spicytot,

Well...it sort of depends on when you want to start flying, your skill set, your budget, and your patience.

If you want to begin actual flying, you might consider a small BNF/RTF "whooped" quad to fly in the house. At least you get to fly something that is real when you can't fly outdoors. You could fly while working on a build.

If it was warm weather, I would consider a ready built BNF so you could start flying, learning, and having fun. However, it looks like you will have some time before you can fly outside, so having a build project would give you something to do in the meantime.

To build or buy, that is the question. First, building a quad is a lot of fun and a great experience. On the other hand, building tends to cost more than buying an equivalent ready made, BNF, craft {don't kid yourself, it will}. Not a big deal, but still a consideration. My first 2 were BNF quads. In fact, I have considered buying a BNF or "kit" just to get the parts. Now, there is another option; buy a kit. You get to assemble (build) it, but all of the parts are included and are matched to the quad. 

If you already have a bunch of tools, then you have a starting point....if NOT, get ready to buy a bunch of tools and other stuff...just sayin'.  

If  you decide to build, there are certain necessities such as soldering iron {it also helps if you have the skills}, a decent cutting mat,  and an assortment of other small tools such as hex drivers, tweezers, pliers, screw drivers, etc. I also have a wide variety of extra bolts, washers, standoff columns, wire, connectors, etc. Also, you will absolutely need a smokestopper {you don't want to risk cooking a new FC}.


The following are links to a few of my posts in other threads on the subject:  

Question about first build post # 11

Getting Into FPV post # 18

Getting Into FPV (2) post # 4



Other interesting links:

[Tip & Trick] How to get into flying a mini quad - Beginner Guide {Oscar} >>  Oscar's article on the web

[Discussion] Build Weights  >  Last Post  
Average Weight of 5 inch Quad  >  Last Post    
Thread Locker {rjalex}  >  Last Post  >  My Post #4

Wow, thank you for all the replies! 

@Kevin2112 & @voodoo614 

The entire armattan store just went on a 20% off flash sale so I think I will get the marmotte since 92 dollars (including tax and shipping) for it seems like a pretty good deal. I read that unibody frames tend to break less since there aren’t weak points where the arms are usually connected, do you find this true?

(19-Feb-2021, 03:55 PM)iFly4rotors Wrote: iFly4rotors

My home isn’t very large so I don’t know if a whoop would work out, even a Mobula 6. I am learning a ton in liftoff which is great, simulators seem like a controversial topic in FPV, I figure if I can do advanced tricks in the simulator with flow it will translate to real life to at least some extent. 

I’ve already got a soldering iron and all the tools necessary other necessary small tools. The soldering iron is a very cheap one from an amazon kit a while back so I’ll probably upgrade. I’ll also be getting a couple of diatone soldering practice boards to practice. I also added a smokestack to the mockup build, thanks for adding that!

I have a couple of new questions now:

1. How many batteries would be recommended for a beginner? I’m thinking about buying one or two racedayquads 3 packs.
   
2. Are 3d printed arm guards (supposed to prevent peeling) a waste of money especially with the lifetime warranty?
   
3. I think I can get used DJI FPV goggles V1 for 450 dollars in good condition, is buying fpv gear used generally speaking a bad idea?
   

Thanks for the in depth reply!

(19-Feb-2021, 10:21 PM)SpicyTot Wrote: Wow, thank you for all the replies! 

@Kevin2112 & @voodoo614 

The entire armattan store just went on a 20% off flash sale so I think I will get the marmotte since 92 dollars (including tax and shipping) for it seems like a pretty good deal. I read that unibody frames tend to break less since there aren’t weak points where the arms are usually connected, do you find this true?

I do like unibody frame. I would not say it breaks less. But maybe. They are however harder to replace. Or at least more time consuming to replace.

(19-Feb-2021, 10:21 PM)SpicyTot Wrote: Wow, thank you for all the replies! 

@Kevin2112 & @voodoo614 

The entire armattan store just went on a 20% off flash sale so I think I will get the marmotte since 92 dollars (including tax and shipping) for it seems like a pretty good deal. I read that unibody frames tend to break less since there aren’t weak points where the arms are usually connected, do you find this true?

the arms brake on the weakest point, the geometry - the design will determinate the brakepoint..
unibody frames can be more rigid in the same amount of carbon/ same weight, split arms doesnt give rigidity just good for practice. somehow yes a splitarm frame has more weak points.
unibody is much more expensive! in production, a lot to throw away for one frame, while you can use the whole carbon plate for a many splitarmframes. at least 4 splitarm frames out of the same plate conpared to an unibody.
the carbon direction is important, there are some tiny benefits for split arm frames, overall there are more downsides.
unibody is better overall, infield splitarm wins as you can replace pretty fast on a good frame, with 4motor screws and 2 screws to secure the arm.

the marmotte is not just an unibody its primary a heavy tanky frame :-) not my taste but rigity for sure

(19-Feb-2021, 10:31 PM)SpicyTot Wrote: My home isn’t very large so I don’t know if a whoop would work out, even a Mobula 6. I am learning a ton in liftoff which is great, simulators seem like a controversial topic in FPV, I figure if I can do advanced tricks in the simulator with flow it will translate to real life to at least some extent. 

A small whoop is very workable even in a small space. Yeah, it is tricky trying to do the fancy stuff. On the other hand, if you like the simulator, that works as well. Yes, learning on a simulator first does seem to be controversial {but that confuses me since it doesn't really matter how you learn to fly...in my opinion}.

From what I can tell, the guys that fly acro believe that is the only mode and everyone should just learn that and not fly in the other modes; acro is the hardest mode to fly; it just is. With this frame of mind, a 5 inch quad in acro mode is more than a challenge unless you already know how to fly....crash, crash, crash...there goes your nice 5 incher in a pile of parts. So, if you don't learn on a Sim, you will destroy a lot of quads just learning how to fly.

On the other hand, Acro is NOT the only fly mode. Angle (STAB) mode is by far the easiest and works quite well learning the controls and how to fly. It is also, the only mode that I will fly in the house. It also doesn't require that your hands move in split-nano-second response. Every transmitter that I use has a Fly Mode switch so that I can change modes in flight.  

I’ve already got a soldering iron and all the tools necessary other necessary small tools. The soldering iron is a very cheap one from an amazon kit a while back so I’ll probably upgrade. I’ll also be getting a couple of diatone soldering practice boards to practice. I also added a smokestack to the mockup build, thanks for adding that!

The soldering iron that you have will likely be fine. I use a $15 Amazon iron that I bought years ago and I am still using it. As long as the iron will heat enough to melt the solder, it will work. I will catch some "heat" (ha, ha) for this, but my iron is set at 425 C degrees and the little wheel is taped so it doesn't move; I like it HOT. {yeah, another topic of controversy}. Anyway, I wouldn't buy another soldering iron just yet. Here is the quick tip to soldering:

The iron heats the part, the part melts the solder. If the part is not hot enough to melt the solder it will not bond correctly. AND use plenty of FLUX. Don't try to melt solder onto a cold part {wire pad, what ever}. 

I have a couple of new questions now:

1. How many batteries would be recommended for a beginner? I’m thinking about buying one or two racedayquads 3 packs.
   

             
           How many are going to fly at one time?  That is how many you need. If you intend to fly 3 packs in one fly session,
           then you need at least 3 packs...maybe an extra 1 or 2.

1. Are 3d printed arm guards (supposed to prevent peeling) a waste of money especially with the lifetime warranty?
   

              I have never used 3D printed arm guards. In my opinion, they just add weight and don't really serve a purpose. 
           I have never had a crash where they would have been a benefit. On the other hand, they look cool.            

1. I think I can get used DJI FPV goggles V1 for 450 dollars in good condition, is buying fpv gear used generally speaking a bad idea?
   

Thanks for the in depth reply!

Hi SpicyTot,

I have provided answers by annotating your questions above.

Trust me.. Ive been there.

No replacement for displacement. Bigger is better. Right?

I built a 9". OMG Scary. Need huge field.
I built a 7". Its fast. Nightmare to "learn" on.
And after many 5", and many expensive crashes..
I fell in love with 4" size.

4" is just big enough to fly line of sight.
Its way under 250g.. under 160g on my Xing1404 one.

Relatively safe. And unlike whoops, very good flight times. 10-12min is normal.

or

just get a 3" cheap Crux3

Hi Roman,

I get about 8-10 minutes on a 65mm framed tiny whoop (31mm props) with a 1S 650 mAh battery. In the house, that feels like forever (ha, ha).  I run 450 to 650 mAh batteries in pretty much all my tiny whoops and get between 5-10 minutes depending on the quad and the battery. 
There are times when I just can't fly outside, so...in the house is the only option. In our house, whoops are the only thing that my wife    allows me to fly. Consequently, I still fly whoops...indoors. 

My latest whoop build, the Tiny-Black-85 {2 inch props}, is actually one of the best flying whoops that I have. It is very flyable indoors, plus, it also works outside in our very small yard. So far, I have been flying it on 2S 650 mAh batteries and get between 5-7 minutes of Fly Time. Oh yeah, I am running GEPRC 1202 6000Kv motors with Gemfan 2 inch props. 

I like flying the 2.5 and 3 inch quads because they are just fun. I get 17 minutes fly time on my stock GEPRC Phantom with a 3S 1100 mAh battery. 

When I have the space, I like the 4 inch quads.