Alright, bear with me. This will be a two build thread, a help what am I doing thread, and an evolution of my thought process.

This started with a planned Diatone Roma F1 build. I originally started a build thread on rcgroups.com, but they don’t seem near as active as this forum and I’m at a point where I need some help. So, it started with this earlier this week:

******
I turned 40 today and decided to celebrate with stuffed crust pizza and order bits for a new build.

I actually wanted to build a GnarlyFPV Sub Atomic, but when I reached out to them last week they weren’t aware of any prop guards that would fit on it.

I crash a *lot*. I crash into my car, into walls, into the clothes line, into bushes, into my own head- so prop guards are a must.

So, ima use a Diatone Roma F1 frame:
https://www.diatone.us/products/roma...8cb6d3b5&_ss=r

Stack:
iFlight SucceX-E Mini F4
iFlight 35A 4in1 ESC

VTX:
Rush FPV Tiny Tank

Cam:
Caddx Ant Nano

Motors:
Hyperlite 1103.5 (12022KV)

Props:
1635 tri-blade or 1636 quad-blade

Other bits:
VTX antenna- probably a Sigma RHCP, I’ve got a few spares.
RX- either a xm+ or an r-xsr, whatever I pull out of my parts bins first.
Buzzer- a random little active buzzer, I’ve got a few that I’ve salvaged from unused arduino sensors. We’ve got a lot of bushes and tall brush on and around our property, so a buzzer is a must.
Spare frame base, lots of spare prop guards.

I picked the FC for this build mainly to keep it affordable and because there’s not a lot of options out there right now- damn ic shortage.

I’ll probably be sticking to 2s batteries for the time being, I don’t need to have the power on tap to throttle punch to the moon.

It’s gonna be a hefty little bugger, but that’s okay- I’m nowhere near close enough in my piloting capabilities to do any acrobatics.

Electronics have been ordered, should arrive on Wednesday. Frame and motors haven’t been ordered yet- I’m waiting for this month’s FPV Lux bag to arrive to see if Pyrodrone included any applicable coupons.

I’m looking forward to this build- it will be my first build where I researched and picked each bit for it rather than building a prepackaged kit or just upgrading or putting together whoops from spare parts.
*******

At this point all I’ve ordered is the FC/esc stack, vtx, and camera.

I started looking at what I already have, and things I can salvage, and I’m thinking of splitting this into two builds using new bits and salvaged bits. Ive got lots of whoops that I’m learning on, and slowly graduating up in size and power. For salvageable/unused bits:

I’ve got the guts from two eachine aurora 90’s- just so happens that they have a 20x20 stack and 1104 7500kV motors.

Ive also got a set of 1104 11500kV motors.

And a Tyro119 that I won’t currently fly- I crashed it into the roof of the church next door and decided I have no business flying something that could severely injure someone until I know what I’m doing.

I’m thinking that the guts from an Aurora 90 would do just fine in the Roma F1, but using the 14mm camera I have on the way.

…and I’m thinking since I don’t need to buy motors, don’t need the vtx or stack, and happen to have a 19mm camera on the Tyro that I’m not using, I should also get a HGRLC Sector25 frame and appropriate motors and turn this into a two for one build.

I’m not sure what motors to get for the HGRLC. I’ll most likely be flying it on 2s or 3s, so they’ve got to have enough speed to fly on those, but I would like the option to drop in a 4s once my skills improve.

I’m not really sure what I’m even asking, except motor advice for the sector25 and some general reassurance that it’s okay to be addicted to micro drones.

I’m gonna keep posting on this thread as these builds come along so that i have a record of the builds if nothing else.

Oh, also- hello! Pretty sure this is my first post.

Hi Lemonyleprosy,

First... HAPPY BIRTHDAY   

What part of the world do you live in??  

I don't know how big GnarlyFPV Sub Atomic is, but any guards that will fit the prop size would likely work as long as there is room in the frame. Sometimes, you would have to go down a size to allow for the guards.

Links for the Roma F1 1.6 inch fully enclosed prop guards:

Diatone Roma F1 1.6 inch Prop Guards from Diatone.

Diatone Roma F1 Prop Guards from Team BlackSheep.

Diatone Roma F1 Replacement Prop Guards at PyroDrone.

Diatone Roma F1 Prop Guards at RDG

At this point, I am a bit confused    ...
but I will do some research on what I think you have and see if I can help.

Ok, so it looks like you have pretty much got the Roma F1 build going...correct? 

Now, the second one:

What frame and prop size do you intend to use?  Do you have a frame?
Prop guards are available for 3 inch and smaller builds. {some large, but they are expensive}

The motors will depend on what size quad you want to build and how you want to fly it. To me, it sounds like you might want a craft that is more on the slow and steady side than a high power, performance, quad. Would this be correct? 

Tell us a bit more about your flying style and the type of quad that you want to build. 

Thanks! I’m up in the pacific northwest of the US.

Slow and steady is correct.

My flying style is cruising around my yard and around bushes and zipping through my carport and shop and whatnot. Basically, my flying style is newbie/beginner, but I can keep it in the air through 4 out of 5 battery packs without crashing, so I’m slowly pushing my limits. I stay low (<50’) and within my property lines (about 180’ by 200’). So, small is a must, but I’m ready to get a bit bigger than the 65mm & 75mm whoops that I fly.

I also wanted something a bit more involved than a typical whoop build- something more than just slapping an aio board and motors in a plastic frame with a canopy and camera.
I want something that I can toss a 3s on if I get comfortable with more power, but that won’t feel bogged down and bloated on 2s.

I’m a bit confused as well. I had what I thought was a well planned out build (the Roma F1).

I haven’t actually started on it yet, I’ve just ordered FC/esc and vtx. Frame and motors were going to be ordered tomorrow.

But, I’m looking at what I have, and I’m thinking I should order both the Diatone Roma F1 frame and the HGRLC Sector25CR frame and build both, so now my well thought out single build is becoming two not so thought out builds.

First, the Roma F1:
I’ve got 20x20 F3 stack from an Eachine Aurora 90 that should work for it.
I just realized last night that I already have 1104 7500kV motors and 1104 11500kV motors, either set should work in it, along with the 14mm camera that I originally ordered for this build.
I’ve got a variety of older vtx’s that I can shove in there with it.
Either of those motors will limit this build to 2s, but that’s okay because I don’t currently have any 3s batteries.

Second, the HGRLC Sector25CR:
I’m thinking the iFlight F4 stack that I originally bought for the Roma would work nicely in it, as well as the rush tank mini vtx.
With the included prop guards, prop size tops out at 2.5”.
I can pull the 19mm camera from the 6” quad that is to big for me to fly.

So that just leaves deciding on motors for the HGRLC build.
I’m thinking xnova t1404 4700kV motors, but I’m concerned that it will be severely under powered on a 2s with 2.5” props and all that weight.

It’s hard to tell, but it looks like the HGRLC Sector25CR with prop guards needs a 9x9 motor mount pattern.

https://www.hglrc.com/products/hglrc-2-5...013c&_ss=r

https://www.hglrc.com/products/hglrc-sec...eq=uniform

The Xing x1404 5500 motors look like they could be a good option as well.

(01-Aug-2021, 07:09 PM)Lemonyleprosy Wrote: Thanks! I’m up in the pacific northwest of the US.

Slow and steady is correct.

        That is pretty much mine, too. I am an easy cruiser. I like to cruise around
        and maybe do a little proximity flying, but I am NOT a stunt pilot.

My flying style is cruising around my yard and around bushes and zipping through my carport and shop and whatnot. Basically, my flying style is newbie/beginner, but I can keep it in the air through 4 out of 5 battery packs without crashing, so I’m slowly pushing my limits. I stay low (<50’) and within my property lines (about 180’ by 200’). So, small is a must, but I’m ready to get a bit bigger than the 65mm & 75mm whoops that I fly.

I also wanted something a bit more involved than a typical whoop build- something more than just slapping an aio board and motors in a plastic frame with a canopy and camera.
I want something that I can toss a 3s on if I get comfortable with more power, but that won’t feel bogged down and bloated on 2s.

I’m a bit confused as well. I had what I thought was a well planned out build (the Roma F1).

I haven’t actually started on it yet, I’ve just ordered FC/esc and vtx. Frame and motors were going to be ordered tomorrow.

But, I’m looking at what I have, and I’m thinking I should order both the Diatone Roma F1 frame and the HGRLC Sector25CR frame and build both, so now my well thought out single build is becoming two not so thought out builds.

First, the Roma F1:
I’ve got 20x20 F3 stack from an Eachine Aurora 90 that should work for it.
I just realized last night that I already have 1104 7500kV motors and 1104 11500kV motors, either set should work in it, along with the 14mm camera that I originally ordered for this build.
I’ve got a variety of older vtx’s that I can shove in there with it.
Either of those motors will limit this build to 2s, but that’s okay because I don’t currently have any 3s batteries.

    Looks like you have pretty much got the Roma F1 build buttoned up.
    Regarding the motors: the 1104 7500Kv motors WILL handle a 3S battery as well as 2S.
    I run 3S batteries on my GEPRC Phantom that has 1103 8000Kv motors, works fine.
    Personally, I would use the 1104 7500Kv motors. 


Second, the HGRLC Sector25CR:
I’m thinking the iFlight F4 stack that I originally bought for the Roma would work nicely in it, as well as the rush tank mini vtx.
With the included prop guards, prop size tops out at 2.5”.
I can pull the 19mm camera from the 6” quad that is to big for me to fly.

So that just leaves deciding on motors for the HGRLC build.
I’m thinking xnova t1404 4700kV motors, but I’m concerned that it will be severely under powered on a 2s with 2.5” props and all that weight.

              The 1404 4700Kv motors would not be under powered even on 2s.
              However, if you do use the Sector25CR frame, I would consider something other
              than a 1404 motor. You might consider something like a 12xx to 13xx with a
              Kv rating around 5000 to 7000. Motors in this range will handle anything from
              2 inch to 3 inch and give some decent fly times.

Hi Lemonyleprosy

Now, let's consider something just a little different. 

Start with a 4 inch frame. These frames will handle props smaller than 4 inches complete with prop guards.
                                     I have used 3 inch props with guards on a 4 inch frame.

                                      AirBlade Transformer Mini 4 inch
                                      This frame has two mounting positions,
                                      Is drilled for 16x16 and 20x20 stacks, plus 26x26 whoop AIO,
                                      The motor mounts will take 9mm or 12mm

Any stack or AIO will work with the AirBlade Transformer Mini 4 inch.
So, you can use any FC that you want. 

You could use the Xnova T-1404 4700Kv motors. These ones have 9mm frame mounting.
They should work fine for any prop size that you want to run.

About props and guards:
Yeah, you could run 2.5 inch through 4 inch props without guards or
You can also use any 3 inch or less props with guards. The guards need to have 9mm mounting.
Here is a set of 2.8 inch props with guards and 9mm mounting and mounting bolts.

There are also a variety of guards for 3 inch props such as 
these HGLRC 3 inch ones, or these 3 inch guards

As for batteries... either 2s or 3s should work just fine. 
A 2s will be a little slower while a 3s will offer a bit more performance.

For EXAMPLE...

You might consider starting with something like this:

4 inch AirBlade Transformer Mini 4 inch frame.
Xnova T1404 4700Kv motors.
A set of 2.8 props with guards. 

If you REALLY wanted to, you could use smaller 2.5 inch props with the 2.8 guards.

You could later upgrade to 3 inch props with or without guards.

At some point, you could run it with 4 inch props. 

Regardless of the build, run 2s when you want a less power and 3s when you want more.

Anyway, just a consideration    

Something I might do.  Ok, actually I pretty much already have... 

Phantom-X.

I started with a frame with arms spaced for 4 inch props. 

In this picture, I am running 3 inch bi-blade props.
In this picture, I am running 3 inch tri-blades with GEPRC prop guards.
In this one, I am running 4 inch bi-blade props.

By the way, those are 1303 5000Kv motors. {so yeah, the 1404 4700kv will be just fine}

Plus, I have used 2s and 3s LiPo batteries (up to 1100 mAh) and 3000 mAh 18650 cells in a holder.
With this build, I average about 15-17 minutes fly time. 
My longest fly time is over 21 minutes; reference Post #60.               

That 4 inch build looks like fun with the ability to grow on, however, I think it’s a bit bigger than I’m currently comfortable with even if I ran smaller props on it. Even the HGRLC Sector25CR has me a bit nervous with its 132mm wheelbase.

I am going to strongly consider it for my next build after these two though, so thank you very much!

I’ll follow your advice and use the 1104 7500kv for the Roma build.

For the Sector25CR build, why would you suggest a 12xx or 13xx over say, the Xing x1404 5500kv? Trying to answer this myself with my limited knowledge, I’m thinking 12xx or 13xx would be lighter and available in higher kv, is that correct?

For the Sector25CR, following your advice, I’m now considering one of the following motors, all of which are at least a couple grams lighter than the 1404’s I was looking at, some considerably lighter:

Hyperlite 1204.5 5022kv (or the 8022kv version, although this one would be higher kv than your recommended 5000 to 7000)

Flywoo Robo RB 1204 5150kv or 8150kv

Flywoo Robo 1303.5 5150kv (I’m not sure if these are tall enough to ensure that the bottom of the props clear the crossbars on the HGRLC 2.5 inch prop guards? I haven’t ordered them yet so I’m trying to guess from pictures.)

The Hyperlite 1204.5 and the Flywoo Robo RB 1204 are both around 5 grams, which is 3 to 5 grams lighter than the 1404’s I was originally looking at. I’m leaning towards one of those, I just need to decide which, as well as which kv (5000-ish kv or 8000-ish kv)

Edit- I actually think I’m leaning towards RCINPower GTS 1204 8000kv, but that might just be because they’re colorful. They’ve also got a 5000kv version. I’m really not sure how to choose the best kv- for my whoops it was a balance of high enough kv to give me the power I wanted but low enough to give me longer flight times. As things get bigger I don’t have the familiarity to know where that balance is.

Thanks for your guidance so far, it’s appreciated!
I think I’m going to enjoy reading through your Phantom-X build thread.

(02-Aug-2021, 05:57 AM)Lemonyleprosy Wrote: That 4 inch build looks like fun with the ability to grow on, however, I think it’s a bit bigger than I’m currently comfortable with even if I ran smaller props on it. Even the HGRLC Sector25CR has me a bit nervous with its 132mm wheelbase.

           Why would you be nervous about a little larger craft 
          
I am going to strongly consider it for my next build after these two though, so thank you very much!

I’ll follow your advice and use the 1104 7500kv for the Roma build.

For the Sector25CR build, why would you suggest a 12xx or 13xx over say, the Xing x1404 5500kv? Trying to answer this myself with my limited knowledge, I’m thinking 12xx or 13xx would be lighter and available in higher kv, is that correct?

           Having a motors larger than you need is NOT an advantage. First, lighter is always better.
           2.5 inch props do not have the surface area to pull excessive weight. Keep in mind that
           the RPM will be the same for any Kv motor regardless of physical size. So, going bigger
           doesn't get you anything except more torque {that you won't need} and maybe acceleration...maybe.

           I tend to use as small of motor as I can get away with. 11xx or 12xx for 2.5 and 3 inch
           quads; 13xx and 14xx for 4 inch; 14xx - 20xx for 5 inch. 
           
For the Sector25CR, following your advice, I’m now considering one of the following motors, all of which are at least a couple grams lighter than the 1404’s I was looking at, some considerably lighter:

Hyperlite 1204.5 5022kv (or the 8022kv version, although this one would be higher kv than your recommended 5000 to 7000)

         The Hyperlite 1204.5 would be fine. The 5022Kv would be a little slower than the 8022kv version.
          
Flywoo Robo RB 1204 5150kv or 8150kv

         The Flywoo Robo motors are also good and are some of the most efficient motors. 

Flywoo Robo 1303.5 5150kv (I’m not sure if these are tall enough to ensure that the bottom of the props clear the crossbars on the HGRLC 2.5 inch prop guards? I haven’t ordered them yet so I’m trying to guess from pictures.)

         Well, I suppose that might be a consideration, however, I would just use spacers
         or washers under the motors if I needed to raise them a few mm.

         Keep in mind that I used 1303 motors with GEPRC 3 inch prop guards with NO issues.
         

The Hyperlite 1204.5 and the Flywoo Robo RB 1204 are both around 5 grams, which is 3 to 5 grams lighter than the 1404’s I was originally looking at. I’m leaning towards one of those, I just need to decide which, as well as which kv (5000-ish kv or 8000-ish kv)

Edit- I actually think I’m leaning towards RCINPower GTS 1204 8000kv, but that might just be because they’re colorful. They’ve also got a 5000kv version. I’m really not sure how to choose the best kv- for my whoops it was a balance of high enough kv to give me the power I wanted but low enough to give me longer flight times. As things get bigger I don’t have the familiarity to know where that balance is.

          If I was going to use a 1204, I would likely go with the 5000Kv version
          since the taller stator will provide any needed acceleration.

Thanks for your guidance so far, it’s appreciated!
I think I’m going to enjoy reading through your Phantom-X build thread.

Hi Lemonyleprosy,

Let me say a few words about motors. I will explain in general terms since specific motors have variances and not all things are equal.

First, motor size. As a general rule, wider-shorter motors tend to have a bit more torque and efficiency over an equivalent thinner-taller motor which has faster acceleration. For example, a 1202 motor is roughly equivalent to an 1103.  Notice that we went wider  1mm and shorter 1mm. On the same craft, the 1202 motors are generally more efficient and a bit "slower" which makes them a bit easier to control and longer fly times. The 1103, on the other hand will be faster to accelerate and a bit more "quicker" with generally shorter fly times.

Basically, wider motors have more torque and efficiency while taller motors have better acceleration and top end performance.

Bigger motors have more torque than smaller motors even for the same acceleration and performance characteristics so they can better handle larger props and heavier loads; ie: bigger quads and those with action cameras.

For an efficient cruiser that is easier to handle, I go for the wider-shorter motors.

Now, if I want more acceleration, I would reverse this and go for thinner-taller motors for more performance.

Lighter craft with smaller props do not need as large of motors that is required as you move up in prop (and quad) size.


Next....

let's look at Kv verses RPM. {keep in mind that the battery voltage decreases during flight}
Also, the calculations are based on a "no load" condition.

The basic RPM calculator is:   KV * Volts = RPM

A motor with a higher KV will spin faster than one with a lower KV for any given voltage.
So, lower KV spin slower than higher KV.  {motor size doesn't matter here}

 5000Kv *  7.4 Volts (2s) = 37,000 RPM,   5000Kv * 11.1 Volts (3s) = 55,500 RPM
 8000Kv *  7.4 Volts (2s) = 59,200 RPM,   8000Kv * 11.1 Volts (3s) = 88,800 RPM

Notice that a 5000Kv motor has about the same RPM on 3s as the 8000Kv motor has on 2s.

Now, look at an 11,000Kv motor. On 3s you will "spin it to death".

11,000Kv * 3.7 volts (1s) = 40,700 RPM,  11,000 * 7.4 Volts (2s) = 81,400 RPM,  11,000 * 11.1 = 122,100 RPM

Normally, as you increase the battery size, you decrease the Kv value. 

That said, I have run 8,000 Kv motors with 3s batteries on light weight craft with no issues. 
HOWEVER, I am NOT a stunt pilot, so my throttle is rarely above 50 percent. 
I would not run much higher Kv on a 3s. 

=========================================

My philosophy comes from someone who is an easer cruiser rather than a performance buff. 
Since my goals are easy flight and extended fly times, I tend to bias the wider-shorter motors.
As you go up the size-weight scale, the motors get bigger...more for the torque than acceleration.

Also, I have actually used the scenarios that I have described so I know they will work. 

In my opinion building an efficient cruiser is more challenging that building a pocket rocket.
It is easy to throw on big motors and have 2-3 minutes of gut wrenching flight.
The challenge is getting Maximum fly time for any specific craft.

You might want to take a look at my  PARTS GUILD <-- click to download. 
The Motors tab is a pretty good comparison of motors organized by size; small to large.


This image shows Propeller Surface areas. 

Hope this all helps.

Thanks for the education!
Your parts guide helped a lot, it was much easier to look at specs all on one sheet rather than toggling between open browser tabs for each individual motor.

Thank you for noting that 5000kv at 3s spins close to 8000kv on 2s- that really helped make my choice easier. I was afraid that 5000kv would be too slow, but knowing that if I toss a 3s on it it’ll be similar to 8000kv on 2s makes it kinda perfect for what I think my needs/wants are.

I think I’ve finally decided on the Flywoo Robo RB 1204 5150kv motors for the Sector25CR. We’ll see if I change my mind again prior to making the purchase this afternoon, but I’m feeling pretty confident with that choice.

Regarding larger crafts making me more nervous- the larger something is, the more terrifying it is when it’s potentially flying at my head or a house/car window. I know that’s not necessarily logical, especially if the object is essentially the same weight and one is just an inch or two bigger- but I also know myself well enough to know that that fear will negatively affect my flying. So, I’ll baby step my way up.

I did the same thing with motorcycles- I started with a 175cc bike, then a 250cc, then a 900cc, and now I’m comfortable on a bike of any size.

Both frames have been ordered as well as Flywoo Robo RB 1204 5150kv motors.

For the Sector25CR, I ordered 2.5” bi-blades, 2.5” tri-blades, and 2.5” penta-blades to try out. The bi-blades are actually 65mm so I might have to shave or cut them down just a little bit, but I’ve got a prop balancer for my r/c plane stuff so I can keep them properly balanced.

I prefer bi-blades on my whoops, but I don’t know if that will carry through as I get bigger so I decided it’s good to have options.

I also have a used but supposedly fully functional JHEMCU GHF420AIO 35a F4 aio board on the way. It was cheap enough that I decided it was a better option than using the minicube f3 stack from the Aurora 90- the minicube f3’s are known to have or develop bad gyros after a crash, which causes them to start randomly pitching up or go into a death spiral.

I haven’t decided which build will get the iFlight stack and which will get the aio board. The aio board is a bit wide, so I’ll have to see which of the two frames it fits better in.

Hi Lemonyleprosy,

I am glad that you found the Parts Guide useful. I update it periodically.

It all looks good to me.

The bi-blade props are the most efficient and give the best "Fly Times". Even though I will sometimes use a tri-blade prop, I have bi-blade props for all of my quads...all sizes. I have a set of the 2.5 inch penta-blade props, but have not tried them yet. When I run a quad with ducts or prop guards, I generally use tri-blade or quad-blade props {yeah, I will try the penta-blade ones, too} since props with multiple blades provide a little more thrust than the bi-blades.

By the way, I always bolt my props to the motors. No matter how tight them may seem, I always seem to have one or two come off if I don't bolt them on. 

The JHEMCU GHF420 AIO board is a good product, I am running it in my FrankenFly-2-4  pusher.  I would put this FC board in the frame that it fits the best and use the iFlight stack in the other.

Keep us updated, post pics as the builds progress.

Thanks again for your help.

I always bolt my props or use floss as well- I’ve had more than a couple fly off and I have no desire for one of my puppies to swallow a lost one. Spending 2+ hours scouring the yard for a lost prop gets old real quick.

Parts have started to arrive! Exciting! It’s just the electronics that I ordered last week, but I’m still excited to have something for these builds in hand.

Bits that arrived:
Caddx 14mm cam that will go on the Roma build
iFlight stack- haven’t determined which build it will go on.
Rush tank mini vtx- haven’t determined which build yet.
2s batteries 
XT30 male & female connectors- so that I can make an xt30 to 2x ph2.0 and xt30 to 3x ph2.0 adapters, as well as a 2x ph2.0 to xt30 adapter to fit one of my whoops that I wired for 2x ph2.0.

Adapters are necessary because except for the 3x 2s batteries that arrived today, all of my micro/mini appropriate batteries are 1s, 300 to 850ma. The extra weight of a short adapter to use the batteries that I have is worth it to me.

There’s not much I can do with any of this yet- I won’t be soldering anything onto the FC until I decide which build it will go in and measure lengths of wire needed for all bits.

But, I can at least update betaflight and the esc firmware.

Hi Lemonyleprosy,

I have a philosophy of " if it ain't broke, then don't fix it ". 

I DO NOT change or upgrade anything unless there is a compelling reason to do so.

Applying this to Betaflight...I have yet to upgrade Betaflight on any of my flight controllers.
For the life of me, I can't think of a good reason to upgrade since every quad flies fine.

When a get a new quad or a new FC board, I connect it to the PC  and use the Betaflight configurator to BACK UP all of the settings before I do anything else... I save at least the following:  DUMP, DUMP ALL, DIFF, DIFF ALL, and RESOURCE SHOW ALL. In addition to these CLI files, I also take screen shots of most of the screens and save them in a graphic file. 

Once the FC is all backed up, I might change the craft name and set up the OSD. At this point, I will NOT CHANGE anything until I have flown the quad to see how it performs. If the behavior is acceptable, then I am done except for battery calibration. I will NOT even change the tune unless there is some issue that needs to be fixed.

As for BLHeli, I have NEVER changed the ESC firmware on anything...and all of my quads fly fine.
The only thing that I have used BLHeli for is to change motor direction. 
Maybe some day I will find a need to change something, but so far I have not.

In my mind, upgrading Betaflight or BLHeli is not necessary...especially without a compelling reason. 

So far, ALL of my quads are running on their respective factory version of Betaflight...AND...the default tunes.

For an easy cruiser, everything that I have used is fine just as it comes; regardless of the Betaflight version. 


That said, I just don't understand    why Betaflight should be upgraded
especially before the quad has been flown    

What is the compelling reason      

If you buy a BNF quad or you have an existing build that is already flying well which you don't care about having the newest features available on then I agree with iFly that you can potentially cause yourself more work and headaches by upgrading unnecessarily. However, everyone always has their own opinions, and below are mine.

If you just bought a new FC and/or ESC that has never been installed in a quad then you may as well start on the very latest version of firmware available for them. I don't see the point in flying an FC on old firmware just because it has been sitting in the stock cupboard for a year meaning that the version of Betaflight that it came loaded with was the latest version at the time it left the factory production line (maybe a year or more ago). If it is a virgin FC / ESC destined for a new custom build which hasn't yet been tuned for that quad then take a backup of the current settings first (Betaflight "diff all" / "dump" and an export of the BLHeli settings) so you have a reference point to go back to if you need it, and then upgrade all the firmware to the latest versions.

It can sometimes be a headache upgrading to later firmware once you have everything set up and tuned, and the further behind the latest version you are the harder it can be to upgrade, so there seems little point starting on a backfoot with a brand new virgin FC / ESC which happens to have old firmware that was loaded onto it from the factory.

Hi Snow,  

You have a very good, logical, point. 

It does make sense, that you don't have much to lose when updating a brand new, virgin, FC. 

Maybe I will give it a try and see how it goes 

My thinking was along the same lines as SnowLeapord- all my currently flying crafts are running whatever version of betaflight came on them, but I figured it’d be easier to update the new one before I configure it.

The rest of the parts should arrive on Friday, so it looks like I’ll get to get started on a build Saturday evening.

It looks like Roma might end up with the 11500kv motors initially. My working Aurora 90 threw a bell last night, so I’ve gotta use one of the 7500kv motors from the Aurora 90 that’s in pieces to replace it until I figure out what size washer and whatnot I need to order to fix the broken motor.