I have just purchased a new Radiomaster Pocket (not ELRS model) because of it's size and features. Now I also want to switch from Crossfire to ELRS simply because I had to glue the Crossfire module on to the Zorro because it kept popping off. The glue I used basically means the Zorro and Crossfire module are now one. My local drone shop does not have any Crossfire modules left (like everywhere else I guess) and ELRS appears to be cheaper. They are offering me a decent price on a Vantac 2.4G ELRS Lite module.

So... to my nooby questions.

The Pocket takes "Nano" size module but this Vantac is a "Lite" size module. Are "Nano" and "Lite" the same thing?

This Vantac has up to 500mW output power. On my Crossfire module I have 1000mW output. Is 500mW output sufficient for mid to long range flying? I had a RX loss issue 3km out with my Crossfire setup because I lost track of where I was. It was my fault but I don't want to downgrade in terms of range.

I have not found any reviews for this Vantac module (just a few comments here and there). It is significantly cheaper than for example the Happymodel ES24TX Nano ELRS module. Any reason as to why it is so much cheaper other than output power at max 500mW? Is it better to just go with the Happymodel or Radiomaster Ranger and enjoy 1000mW output power?

I can use any 2.4 ELRS receiver with any 2.4 ELRS module?

I've read about "steep learning curves" for ELRS. As that still the case? If so, what is it I have to learn that is different from Crossfire setup?

From what I can tell, lite and nano are the same thing, but don't take my word for it. I'm just counting the pins and the overall design.

As for range, 500mW will still take you a pretty good distance. Like four-ish miles (over six kilometers) at least, but probably far more if you sit on a hill. Just set your packet rate low and ensure line of sight will not be obstructed.

As far as quality goes, I have no idea who Vantac is, or what kind of work they do. Either roll the dice or swap to a known trusted brand.

ELRS equipment should all work together fine assuming you're running the same major version across everything. 1.x.x, 2.x.x, or 3.x.x

The learning curve isn't too bad with the right teacher. Just ask questions and I can get you up to speed, and I can point out some of the issues I bumped into when I got going with it.

Thanks for your input!

I think I'll go with a trusted brand. I'm considering the Radiomaster Ranger combo packet with a module and 3 receivers (one has an internal antenna which will be fine for my indoor whoop). It's a Dutch site but I've ordered from them before, there appears to be a shortage with ELRS modules in Europe and these guys are the only ones that have them of the shops I usually order from: https://droneshop.nl/radiomaster-ranger-...dule-combo

The thing is they are out of those receivers when buying them individually so in order to equip all my qauds with ELRS I will have to get a few more receivers of a different brand, for example these from Happymodel: https://droneshop.nl/happymodel-elrs-ep1-receiver

Is it fine to mix and match receivers like this or do they have different setup and/or bind procedures? Would it be better if I just stick to the same brand of receivers? I can get those Radiomaster ones from from another store at a higher price and also additional shipping costs, but if it means less hassle for the noob (me) I will.

It’s fine to mix and match brands, just make sure all of the receivers are 2.4ghz (not 900mhz) if your tx module is 2.4ghz.

No difference in binding- one of the great things about ELRS is bind phrases, once it’s set up there is no binding to fool with, it just does it on power up. Only difference in setup between various receivers and brands will be potentially selecting a different target when you build the file to flash them.

The Ranger is awesome. I also haven’t heard of Vantac.

I’m not a fan of most Happymodel products, but I am a big fan of their ELRS receivers. They’re typically the cheapest, and they work well. I have quite a few and they’ve given me no problems.

The learning curve can definitely be steep, but between all of us here as well as the ELRS Discord, you should be able to overcome it pretty quickly. It really only gets messy with built in spi receivers on whoop aio’s, because the ELRS version is baked into betaflight on those.
Also, Oscar’s guide can get you up to speed pretty quickly:
https://oscarliang.com/setup-expresslrs-2-4ghz/

Regarding range, if you look at the long range competition on the ELRS page, someone made it 40.6km on 25mw. I’m assuming they were on top of a mountain or something. I can’t speak for range personally- I don’t fly far.
https://www.expresslrs.org/info/long-range/

Are the drones you are planning to upgrade already on Crossfire, it may not be worthwhile to upgrade all of them, you can just add ELRS to your new setups. There is some learning curve, but it is not too bad, and it will be worth it in the long run. Nice selection of AIO with onboard ELRS, low cost ELRS RXs, probably more BNFs with ELRS than Crossfire (or soon), smaller antennas than crossfire, etc. As it is open source, on the most part all the different brands work together, some will have their quirks though. I use a lot of Happymodel and Betafpv receivers (good value) and for the most part they have held up well although I don't fly much LR.

Are you looking for a module for your pocket radio? Is the pocket worth adding a module to? Why don't you just get a dedicated ELRS radio? The pocket ELRS version is only 250mw (but good enough for mid range) but there are several $100ish ELRS radios with 500-1000mw.

Thanks again for all input, and thanks for those links Lemony.

(17-Sep-2023, 06:47 PM)mstc Wrote: Are the drones you are planning to upgrade already on Crossfire, it may not be worthwhile to upgrade all of them, you can just add ELRS to your new setups.

I only want to have one radio and sell off the others. I have too much stuff. I would have been OK sticking with Crossfire but I can't get the glued on module off the Zorro. I don't like to the Zorro as it's simply too big for me as I like to keep things as small as possible because a lot of the time I'm cycling with my stuff. I have the Tango 2 but it does not have a rotary dial for servo control that I have on one quad (will maybe add it to another).

(17-Sep-2023, 06:47 PM)mstc Wrote: Is the pocket worth adding a module to? Why don't you just get a dedicated ELRS radio? The pocket ELRS version is only 250mw (but good enough for mid range) but there are several $100ish ELRS radios with 500-1000mw.

Why I don't get a dedicated ELRS radio is because I don't want to buy yet another radio. I like the Pocket because of it's size, the type and amount of switches and the rotary dial for servo control. The idea was to use the Crossfire module from the Zorro but as mentioned earlier, the module and radio are now one. So no, I'm not going to go through the hassle of returning the Pocket just to get an ELRS radio when I can simply buy a module for it... and as Crossfire modules aren't currently available to me I'll go with ELRS.

I keep forgetting that dynamic power changes the amount of output well before it's needed. It'll boost the output anytime the signal goes below -80dbm.

If you are happy with the Pocket, you still might consider getting the ELRS version if 250mw is enough for your needs. It will certainly be more compact, portable, and hardy versus having a separate module/antenna sticking out the back. Not suggesting you return your CC2500, but you could use it for a simulator or maybe gift it to a new pilot.

Having said that, I do have an external 250mw nano module on my main radio, a jumper t-lite, it is a little extra space when packing it in the bag and an extra step to screw on the antenna, I was considering getting a T20 with the internal module to replace it and make things simpler, but I think I've gotten used to and prefer the tiny gimbals.

I've gone ahead and ordered the Radiomaster Ranger Nano combo and a few extra Happymodel receivers.

(17-Sep-2023, 09:10 PM)Suros Wrote: I keep forgetting that dynamic power changes the amount of output well before it's needed. It'll boost the output anytime the signal goes below -80dbm.

I'm still too much of a noob, I don't know how that stuff works. I figure the receiver has to send signal information back to the radio because how else will the radio know when to increase power output? Do the receivers also send back with dynamic power ranges? Or have I misunderstood this altogether (very likely).

I'm also interested in what issues you faced when you got going with it. Care to just give a very brief description of them?

(17-Sep-2023, 11:03 PM)mstc Wrote: If you are happy with the Pocket, you still might consider getting the ELRS version if 250mw is enough for your needs.

Because of the mid to long range flying I've done and also flying underground I at least want to have the option of high output. With that said, your reasoning is valid so what I can do is test limiting the power output on the Ranger module under controlled circumstances. If 250mW is fine, which it may very well be, then I can sell the Pocket and module locally and get the ELRS version to keep the size down.

I started with Crossfire and the TBS Tango 2 and was perfectly happy with that until I wanted to add servo control on my Tunnel Rat qaud: https://intofpv.com/t-tunnel-rat?page=3
There is a method to mimic sliders with buttons but it was too jerky, I couldn't stand it, so I went looking for a new radio. I want a small game pad style radio that has two 3 position switches, two 2 position switches, at least one momentary switch and at least one rotary dial. There are not all that many options that meet all of those requirements. I bought a Zorro thinking it would be the perfect radio but it's too big and I honestly do not like the lever style positional switches, I much prefer the button style of the Tango 2. I looked at the Jumper T-Pro but it lacks 2 position switches (yes, I use all switches for different things such as LED control and GPS rescue). So when I saw the Pocket I jumped on it and bought the cheaper CC2500 version thinking I could just move over the module from the Zorro but I didn't consider the fact that I had glued on the Crossfire module to the Zorro. In hindsight it was pretty stupid not to go with the ELRS version but it is what it is...

The receivers do have telemetry back to the radio. If you will be doing long range, you do want one with PA+LNA which sends back a stronger telemetry signal from the RX. Most of the tiny square form factor ones do not have that, they are fine for medium range, but you will start losing telemetry sooner.

As for dynamic power, ELRS bases it algorithm on several factors, but mainly S/N ratio for most cases.
https://www.expresslrs.org/software/dyna...mit-power/

It will be interesting to see how 2.4g Lora performs in the tunnels. If you don't need racer speed latency, you can try running ELRS at the lowest packet rate as that seriously increases signal robustness. At 25hz sensitivity increases to -123 dbm compared to at 500hz -105dbm.
https://www.expresslrs.org/info/signal-health/

(18-Sep-2023, 02:25 PM)mstc Wrote: It will be interesting to see how 2.4g Lora performs in the tunnels. If you don't need racer speed latency, you can try running ELRS at the lowest packet rate as that seriously increases signal robustness.  At 25hz sensitivity increases to -123 dbm compared to at 500hz -105dbm.
https://www.expresslrs.org/info/signal-health/

I might do a Crossfire vs ELRS tunnel test but ultimately I think the video link will be the weakest link in both cases.

Thanks for the links, some interesting reading there.

I keep wishing 25Hz was included in version 3, but I think said they tossed it to make space for 1000Hz.

So I now have my Ranger Nano ELRS module and replaced a CRSF RX with an ELRS RX. I've updated to latest ELRS on RX and used bind phrase and all looks good so far. All buttons and dials are working, I see input under the receiver tab in Betaflight. I have not tried arming it yet, wife is home and I live under a strict "no beeps" rule when she is home.

So far two questions if I may.

Do you still have to set arm on AUX1? AUX1 is not the switch I prefer, the one I use is on the other side. If you still have to use AUX1 I guess I'll have to figure out how to switch AUX channels with buttons.

With the Tango 2 and CRSF I needed to set failsafe to "cut" if I wanted GPS rescue to be initiated on failsafe. I've gone though the menus and also done some searching. I see no mention of this for ELRS. Does ELRS simply do "cut" like CRSF set to "cut" as default and it's not even configurable?

(22-Sep-2023, 10:09 PM)Mike C Wrote: So far two questions if I may.

Do you still have to set arm on AUX1? AUX1 is not the switch I prefer, the one I use is on the other side. If you still have to use AUX1 I guess I'll have to figure out how to switch AUX channels with buttons.

With the Tango 2 and CRSF I needed to set failsafe to "cut" if I wanted GPS rescue to be initiated on failsafe. I've gone though the menus and also done some searching. I see no mention of this for ELRS. Does ELRS simply do "cut" like CRSF set to "cut" as default and it's not even configurable?

Yes, you need to strictly use only AUX1 for arming, so if your preferred arming switch on your Tango 2 is mapped to a different AUX channel you will need to rearrange the channel mapping so that it's remapped to the AUX1 channel instead.

There are no failsafe options to set for ExpressLRS. In the event of an RC link loss it just sends the failsafe flag to the FC (i.e. like "cut" does on Crossfire).

Thanks SnowLeopard, AUX1 it is then. I have the ELRS module on the Pocket. I've rearranged the channel mapping now it works fine now.

I have stumbled on yet another question though. I want to set up the switch warnings for the two 2-position switches and the three 3-position switches. My problem is that I can only set warnings for the two 3-position switches and the momentary switch (B, C and E):



I can toggle the warnings on those switches however I want but I can't figure out how to add switches to that list. I'd like to have A,B,C and D listed instead of B,C and E. Anyone here know how to do that? I did some searching and found this video but the setup on my Pocket looks nothing like that, I don't have those same options.



Edit: I've gone through some more videos but they all have all buttons already on the menu, like the image below. No one mentions how edit that list and add or remove buttons from it. To me it's really silly that the default arm switch is not on the switch warning list. I suspect the rearranged channel mapping triggered this because it's those two switches that are missing. How do I get them back on this list? I tried setting the channel mapping back to default but they still don't show up.