Yeah. FK Remote ID, even for >250g quads. It's never going on any of mine.

There is literally nothing in the new CAA regulation proposals that seem to cater for FPV quads. It's like the people who wrote the document don't know that FPV quads even exist in the UAS world because they have only considered regulation proposals that would work for camera drones.

Hi Pathfinder,

Keeping away from people has been my tact for quite some time now. If no one knows 
or no one is disturbed, then No one cares. From my perspective, you are absolutely 
correct in that NO ONE is going to trek out into some remote location to see if someone 
is flying a drone. It is just NOT going to happen. In fact, I now only fly in rural areas 
just to keep out of the way. 

That said, I have a RID module for my one "heavy" 7-inch quad. Still, I will likely only 
fly it in rural areas. I expect that there will be absolutely NO one that will ever "snag" 
my RID signal which, as mentioned, the broadcast is short range; on average less than 
1K and only about 2K on a good day and clear RFLOS (Radio Frequency Line Of Sight). 

=================

Hi Snow,

Well, it would be unfortunate if the sub-250 FPV drones are required to be registered
and have remote ID. Bummer. 

That said, I have one RID module already, I am waiting for the second one to arrive,
and I might even buy a third one even though I actually only need one and a single 
registration number as a recreational pilot. The one that I actually have in hand is the
Flight Test FT EZ ID module which measures 20x20 which is actually smaller than a 
whoop AIO FC board. 

Yes, it will be possible, maybe easier than one might think, to mount this RID onto a
65mm framed (31mm propped) tiny whoop using a modified canopy. You know we are
an inventive crowd and I would expect the 3D printer guys to have all sorts of neat 
little canopies that will hold a RID module. The FT EZ ID only weighs about 10 grams
so that is not really an issue at least not for analog tiny whoops. If a 65mm whoop
can handle a Vista unit, then it is already powerful. Worse case, toss the Vista and
go back to analog then add the remote ID module ...OR... more powerful motors.
Even though I don't need to, I have a bunch of small 65mm to 85mm whoops that 
I will try it on. Yeah, I will likely make a custom DIY canopy. 

I am actually pretty excited to try out my RID module(s) and even see how they 
do on the 65mm tiny whoops. Just for fun. Just to see how it will work. I may
even consider going back to a local park (HARK, People!!) just to see if anyone
approaches me due to the RID module. In fact, if anyone does approach me, I will
ask if they snagged the RID information. 

Actually, a positive for me is that I will now resume work on my greater than 250
gram builds. Why not? I will have a registration number and RID module so now
it is no big deal. 

Anyway, I guess that is just me.  

=======================

Later, My Friends, iFly  

In observing, watching, and reading as much as I can about Remote ID, the
FAA regulations, and the actual law signed by congress in the USA; I find a
couple of things interesting.

You know, the "Model Airplane" guys in the USA want to be excluded from 
the "drone" classification even though, by definition, those are unmanned
aircraft that are remote controlled. The very definition of a drone. In fact,
some of the first drones were actually "airplanes". Interesting, don't you 
think. 

In studying the FAA regulations and the actual law, I have to applaud the
genius in the use of the language to be all encompassing which takes into
account ALL unmanned aircraft regardless of configuration including things
that have yet to be invented or constructed which takes into account craft
of the past, present, and future. There simply are NO exceptions other than 
the "Recreational Exemption". If one thinks about it, this is a reasonable 
methodology. Rather simple in that you don't have a bunch of different 
rules for each different type of craft and includes craft yet to be built. 

So, any and all unmanned aircraft (defined as any object that can sustain flight)
with a camera actually are the same; they fly, they have a camera, and they
can be used for surveillance. These days "Wings" and even model airplanes can
and often do have a camera. Besides, this takes out the question: "Is my craft
subject to the regulations?"  Actually, Yes it is. 

Regardless, this train is coming down the tracks whether we like it or not.

Maybe it is not as bad as some perceive it to be. 
Still, we each decide where we fit into the grander scheme of things. 

Later, iFly 

I don't want to go off on a tangent, but the problem with Remote ID is that it's just another method of surveillance on society. George Orwell 1984.

For people who comply they are being complicit and condoning the government's tracking of their every move, which then just ratifies and endorses what the government are doing, so they just continue to tighten down the thumb screws in order to control our everyday lives until it's too late and we have no more freedoms left. For the sake of our children and future generations who come after them there needs to be some fightback against what is actually happening before it's too late.

Yes, I know that we are already being tracked by our phones and other devices which we use every day, but the only way to try and curb what is going on is to reject some of these draconian surveillance measures which have NOTHING to do with safety and EVERYTHING to do with controlling the people. If we let it carry on we will end up like China where everyone is monitored every hour of the day.

It's like the ULEZ and Clean Air Zone lies in the UK. It has nothing to do with clean air and everything to do with putting up ANPR cameras to monitor the movement of people and raking in a ton of money for supposed "non-compliant" cars even though those cars have passed their annual MOT emissions tests. If people let it continue it will just spread across the country and get out of control, so a big thumbs up to the Blade Runners who are taking up the fight by cutting down the cameras with angle grinders (around 1000 in London alone since the whole scam scheme started).

It's the same with EV's which are slowly being forced upon us with the narrative of supposedly cleaning up the our environment (we won't mention the lithium and cobalt mining process then, or the fact that they are mostly charged from non-renewable energy sources which is for another discussion). All of them have built in technology that connects them back to the manufacturers servers meaning that your every car journey can be tracked, and your new car has the ability to be remotely disabled at the press of a button. People get wowed by the "convenient" technology all these EV's have but it's like holding a candy bar out to a child to make them take the bait. People need to wake up and see the bigger picture of what this is all leading to. If they just roll over and let this sort of thing carry on by complying, then before too long we will all be forced to wear remote tracking tags on our ankles.

Hi Snow,

You know, it confuses me how the current (very limited, non cellular) broadcast 
modules are or could be being used by the government for surveillance on society. 
Having done a lot of research into the technology, I just can't get my mind around 
how RID could even be used as any type of surveillance mechanism at least not with 
the current modules. Although cellular is an option, most of the modules today are 
using Bluetooth and some also WiFi. Both of these technologies are extremely short 
range from both the technical specifications and the testing that I have seen. Plus, 
I have found no system (in place at this time) that can pick up any rural Bluetooth
or WiFi broadcasts at least not in the USA.

Maybe the UK is different. Maybe the government has Bluetooth towers everywhere.
Maybe there is a system in the UK to monitor all Bluetooth traffic, identify RID broadcasts, 
and assess each flight. These things I do not know. 

That said, I do expect that one day at least some of the RID systems will have a cellular
component and be required to log in to a UAS Air Traffic Management System for certain
types of flights. However, from what I can tell, this is more for traffic management than 
surveillance. 

Later, My Friend, iFly  

Don't be blinkered by what is here now. It is just the start. Once they get their foot in the door with the technology they will slowly start to install more and more infrastructure with more capable technology, then they will change the goal posts before people realise they left it too late to act.

It's like the current ULEZ situation in London. People are being made to get rid of combustion engine cars that are in perfectly good driveable condition and which have passed a national annual emissions test because they are apparently "too dirty" to drive in the city, even though you can still drive them into those zones if you pay the government some money to do so (which means that it's clearly just a money grab and not about clean air at all). Euro 4 petrol (gas) cars are currently allowed in for free as are Euro 6 diesel cars, but everyone with any brain cells know that if it's allowed to continue then in the near future the goal posts will change whereby only Euro 5 petrol, cars and Euro 7 diesel cars will be allowed in for free which then makes anyone's Euro 4 and Euro 6 cars non-compliant. And once they have all the ANPR camera infrastructure in place and/or everyone forced into network connected EV's that are being tracked, they can repurpose the infrastructure to more efficiently monitor your movements and start charging you a pay-per-mile fee if you want the freedom to drive your car anywhere. It's amazing how many people have their heads in the sand and can't see what is coming if they don't try and do something to stop it.

The same will happen with Remote ID. If you want your kids and grandkids to have the same kind of freedoms that all the war veterans fought tooth and nail back in 1914 and 1939 for us to have, then DO NOT comply with this nonsense and the technology will stall. By being part of it you are just helping them to develop and build more invasive and sophisticated systems in the future. People need to start rising up against the tyranny where they are trying to quash our freedoms.

Hi Snow,

Good points. Well said.

Later, My Friend, iFly  

In 20 years I doubt the UK will be any different to China or Russia in terms of civil liberties (or lack of them). My plans to pack up and go live in the jungle in some far away country are probably still on track.

(23-Nov-2023, 03:46 PM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: People need to start rising up against the tyranny where they are trying to quash our freedoms.

I see a lot of people saying similar things, like rallying people to rise up but are not doing any of the actual rising themselves. Rallying people to rise up is not rising up in itself, if it was we could all rally each other and still not actually do anything. Don't get offended, I'm not saying this is you, just a general reflection.

Personally I'm convinced it's too late. It's been too late for a long time.

(24-Nov-2023, 12:34 AM)Mike C Wrote: I see a lot of people saying similar things, like rallying people to rise up but are not doing any of the actual rising themselves. Rallying people to rise up is not rising up in itself, if it was we could all rally each other and still not actually do anything. Don't get offended, I'm not saying this is you, just a general reflection.

Personally I'm convinced it's too late. It's been too late for a long time.

I agree. In the US it's unfortunate that far too many people just sat on their backsides when the public consultation came out and didn't bother to do anything. There were just 53,000 submissions from almost a million drone pilots in the US, and some of those submissions were from people outside of the US (one of them was from me) who were trying to do their best to stop the steam roller before the RID disease started spreading to other countries, which it now has, as predicted. Unfortunately it is now all too late for the US and the only option left is mass non-compliance to cripple and disrupt the whole RID implementation as much as possible to try and make it a failure. While it is everyone's prerogative what they do, anyone who complies is just feeding the system and making it fatter. All Remote ID modules should be thrown on the fire and left to burn.

In the UK we are still in public consultation stage until January 2024 with nothing set in stone yet, so the drone hobbyists here still have some time to do their best to try and make their voice heard, but I fear you are right and that too many people probably just won't bother to do anything, so we will then end up in the same sorry situation as the US with mass non-compliance then being the only remaining option left.

i was encouraged to send in something for the consultation, but you know most of the stuff in it made no sense to me and no relevance to how or what I fly. If someone had posted up an example answer sheet or letter I would have sent it to my MP or CAA.

They pushed it on another forum i go to and I asked a couple of guys there to make a generic letter that could be used, because half the stuff I saw on one video was just like WTF level to me. They didn't. They all fly DJI over there. They are also zealots. I am not.

I don't have a degree in CAA level BS and probably 95% of the questions were more aimed at commercial drone users flying camera drones. I like to fly, I don't care for the politics of flying, nor particularly care about most of the stuff in the consultation that has no relevance to what i do and I'm not spending hours watching videos to learn about it so i can answer a questionnaire on things irrelevant to me. I never was that invested. but if someone says, here are the key points that relate to FPV, these are your possible answers to them, now put a dear sir letter together and put those points in it and send it to the CAA, yeah i'll do that.

You're not wrong. Just trying to answer some of those questions makes you want to go and jump of a cliff, and you end up feeling like you're on a hiding to nothing, so I completely understand why people just say F it and don't even bother, or give up halfway through because the whole thing has totally demoralised them. I'm sure these questionnaires are purposely designed to make people lose the will to live and just give up without bothering to submit a reply so that the CAA can then turn around later and say that no-one responded which must mean that people must generally be happy with their proposals.

I'm going to do my best to fill in a response just so it adds another reply to the stats even if anything I answer just ends up getting totally ignored. Sean is going to go through filling in the response on one of the upcoming livestreams on his Geeksvana channel so I'll post a link to that on the forum once he's done so. He is a camera drone flyer though which means that some of the questions/answers aren't going to apply for FPV, so for those you can just put "N/A" as an answer, but for the others it might at least give some idea of what sort of reasonable response to put down. He did specifically call out the lack of consideration for self-built drones / FPV at 7:31 into his video linked to below...

The UK CAA "Consultation" is a required thing they must do. They have NO intention of changing course one degree from their pre-chosen path. Any effort to make this happen is a total waste of time and energy. They KNOW how few incidents there are, they do not care.

We are still solely regarded as the "3C's" nuisance stated publicly within the original scheme by a CAA representative, Clueless, Careless, and Criminal.  There is NO chance of this changing.

Ask them to provide under the freedom of information act detail of actual harm caused by the operation of a multirotor.


In any event, CAA manipulation of reality is a drop in the ocean of our overall slide down to a third world existance.

Try exposing the wider reality.................... Here's a start...............

Ask your MP, etc to explain why we continue to pump huge amounts out in "foreign aid" to countries that have the funds to run expensive space and nuclear weapons programmes and ask them to list the amounts?  Countries who totally ignore human rights and the pollution they create with their industry.  This while our own under funded systems decay and collapse.  Do you know which countries we send money to, and how much ? It is likely to shock you!

Ask your local councillors why dangerous roads are left unrepaired for many many months.  One such 150mm deep 400mm wide  one metre long crater, present over a year despite many public reports, was only acted upon after the third person was badly injured there when a motorcyclist passing a bus at the adjacent stop (while still travelling on the right side of the central line) was unseated and thrown into the path of an oncoming SUV .  The unsigned area was partially coned over the following day (with three cones in line, two of which had the reflective strip missing!) and two days later the "throw some tarmac at it" repair took less than an hour.  Its already loosening out after a week.

Make it so at the very least they cannot possibly say they didn't know!

I tried that, he said we were following the science and as a world leader had to lead by example and my input was not required because expert advisors were making the decisions, I even offered to let him fly a Tinywhoop round his office so he could see how “dangerous” they really were, he refused saying it was a health and safety risk flying a drone round the office (yes, I even told him what drone it was and how much it weighed).

Putting RemoteID on a Mobula 7 simple because it has a “complex” camera on shows just how out of touch the CAA are, it’s almost as if they looked at Americas implementation of Remote ID, saw everybody saying “well at least our lot couldn’t be any worse” and said “Hold my beer….”.

This is the straw that has broken the camels back for me, won’t be complying with any of their shit now. I’ll follow the two main common principles that I’ve followed for the last 40 years, aka, don’t put anybody in danger and don’t be a dick.

I think the vast majority of people adhere to the don't be a dick philosophy and I think very few picked up all the licenses they tax you with.

I just avoid flying near others full stop and generally fly in places Joe Public doesn't go.