Original 4in1 ESC failed on one output (tyro 129 ESC )
Replaced with a 4in1 TCMMRC 30A BlHeli_s 30x30 (amazon) flashed with latest JESC 2.3 24kz PWM so to have RPM Filtering
we need to retune again as set the filters, as the maiden flight is horribly wobbly like when i started with the F3 FC will update as the project move forward
12/3/19 UPDATE: BEWARE EXPERIMENTAL THREAD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All credits go to Blowsmoke who did the Black Box analysis and tune the PIDS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is still a work in progress, although we had a stable flight, the below PIDS are extremely high and can cause burnout motors in other configurations, it works with my current MJX bugs3 Stock motors and frame, but your mileage may vary, so we are not responsible in any manner if you destroy or burn something i will post the lower PIDS that blowsmoke and me come up with when we continue tweaking this project thanks for all your interest and reading on this thread so
using an SPRacing F3 clone from bangood and a tyro129 4in1 ESC
we were able to tune the MJX bugs3 to a better flight than even with the stock FC that MJX put in to
i think this tune will work with any F4 and F7 , assuming you flash BF 4.1.1 on it and use stock motors and frame
im using HQ 7x4.5 props
here are the PIDS for a 2s battery 1800mAh stock and 3000mAh Engpow Amazon
Filters https://prnt.sc/q3h0ra -------------------------------- UPDATE : 11/25/19 if you see the videos at the end you will see the impossible wooble on the 1st video, im no tuning expert ut i have seen that wobble on videos and is when you need more P gain so i moved the PD Slider on BF 4.1.1 to 1.5X and now it FLYES!!! it needs a lot of tuning tough, but i do now know what to tweak at this point i went too far for my knowledge
please DL the black box file i uploaded , and go to slot #10 that's the "successful" flight Thanks ------------------- Guys, i recycled a MJX Bugs3 frame and motors, i installed the tyro129 4 in 1 ESC and the bangood SPracing F3 clone
i installed bf 3.5.7 and can't get rid of hovering oscillations so i flashed JESC in to the ESC and BF4.1 F3 performance edition for Sp3 board and enabled the RPM filter and with stock settings the bird woobles like crazy, so i think it needs more P
so before doing more tweaking i decided to enable the blackbox and turn on DEBUG mode RAW gyro
indeed i see tons of noise on the the 3 axis i am not a black box expert so i need help, i assume this Sp3 is flawed and the gyro is bad, planing to order a NOXE F4
18-Nov-2019, 11:28 PM (This post was last modified: 18-Nov-2019, 11:35 PM by bLoWsMokE.)
My guess is that it's because you put it in a consumer grade drone frame that is not very fit to be a racing drone frame. Also if you're using the original MJX motors then I can't believe it's even flying and not on fire or something
You could target the 180hz noise with notch filters... make usre dynamic filtering is on increase your filters in general... but My guess is that you're never going to get rid of the oscillations in a frame like that.
It's plastic isn't it? It's just not made for the high power output of a racing drone.
And are you using the original motors from that bug drone? If so then I'm impressed you even got it to fly..... Although maybe i shouldn't say that I have no clue what kinda motors it comes with.... but you might just be pushing too many amps into them... I looked at a picture and the props on those things are fairly large and flimsy looking... it's likely they use a slow rotation speed....
It's just not something you should have even expected to work at all, let alone hover without oscillations.... It's interesting though.... Put on the dynamic filter as well as targeting 150-200hz on the gyro lowpass notch filter.... And the Dterm notch filter too..... i don't think any of this is gonna work though... the PID loop is going nuts trying to figure out what's going on and it can't understand that it's been installed in a bug frame and motors....
Please show us videos of the thing hovering! You should start a new thread called "experiment" or something similar to that.... Show us what you did and put video of it flying.
Edit: Ah, the noise you're seeing in those graphs are from the motors... they probably aren't designed to deal with the aggressive corrections from a hobby grade flight controller. I wanna just flat out say there is nothign wrong with your gyro...... but I can never be 100% certain about something like that so I best just say that it's very unlikely that there is anything wrong with your gyro, and what you showed doesn't indicate anything to be wrong.
thing is that with the original ALL in one board, it flyed ok not perfect but just so so
i was inspired by this guy who did something similar to what i am doing but he keeps the stock bugs3 ESC's
i wanted to learn acro and thats why i proceeded with the "FrankenBugs3" idea removing the original AIO FC who cant fly acro i was using the stock bugs3 orginal ESC's those can take Dshot 150 and 300, but i still got those oscillations i said to myself ok, its the ESC's then even with a 4 in 1 BHheli_S JASC flashed with RPM filter enabled on BF4.1 that worked worst than with BG 3.5.7
i was almost discouraged completetely and i said ok maybe i had a flawed SP3 fc, i saw videos of people who have an SP3 and fly ok
MJX was able to make that thing to fly with a cheapo AIO FC with integrated receiver ( propietary)
i am using FLYSKY IA6 flashed with the firmware for 10 channels, timers and so on...
i tought maybe the FC was flawed also
i will upload the internals of the franken bugs as i call it lol Thanks BlowSMoke
Your gyro filters are way off that noise. Have you used the sliders to set the filters? At what point are they?
I don't know what that F3 Perfomance edition sacrifices to get Betaflight 4.1 support, maybe dynamic filter? Is RPM filter really working on Betaflight? You flashed JESC firmware, have you flashed JESC telemetry too?
19-Nov-2019, 10:55 AM (This post was last modified: 19-Nov-2019, 11:38 AM by bLoWsMokE.)
The guy in that video is definitely getting severe oscillations you can hear it. You can see the struggle for hi mto keep the drone off the ground after a flip because the power isn't there... it's just all mismatched and not efficient at all.
You can see his quad wobbling all over the place juts hovering though.... He is just a pretty decent pilot I think is what is going on there.
If you have an FC and ESC for a racing drone really all you need is like 80 more bucks and youcan just get a frame and some brushless motors.... Believer me this guys flying experience is not good, he's just a good pilot and he's managing around the severe limitations he has with that set up.
What he's doing is novel, but he's never ever get it to fly like an acro quad should. If you were to throw a camera on that thing and see the FPV feed you would see what I mean.
Like I said, this guy is a pretty decent pilot... so go look up a video on LOS flying with a real racing quadcopter and look closely at the flight characteristics and the smoothness... then go back and watch his video again and you will spot how much he is struggling to make it look as good as he's making it look. I'm actually pretty impressed with his ability to manage it.
It's a fun little project to be sure.... but it's not something you should do to learn acro.
Edit: I just properly watched the video... You see how he's saying that his idle is set too high? It's proly too high yes... but a large part of that is that is most likely the PID loop fighting so hard against all the oscillations that it's revving all the motors up like crazy to compensate....
You can literally see the drone wobbling all over the place! I'm actually surprised it DOESN'T just fly straight away...... I fear that if you start messing with the PID loop you might get something like this happen where the quad wants to just shoot to the sky and fly away..... or just flip out and go nuts... So when and if you do start messing with the PIDS BE CAREFUL when you try to fly it for the first time... make sure it doesn't wanna fly away on ya.
19-Nov-2019, 05:17 PM (This post was last modified: 19-Nov-2019, 05:43 PM by rolo95.)
(19-Nov-2019, 10:45 AM)brnmd Wrote: Your gyro filters are way off that noise. Have you used the sliders to set the filters? At what point are they?
I don't know what that F3 Perfomance edition sacrifices to get Betaflight 4.1 support, maybe dynamic filter? Is RPM filter really working on Betaflight? You flashed JESC firmware, have you flashed JESC telemetry too?
sliders were stock, and yes telemetry is enabled i can see the RPM on the motors when on the bench and cero error with the stock FC that came with the bugs3 it flyes, not perfect but ok as you can see in the video with the stock FC
so i dont know what i need to do to make it at least to fly acceptable, i want to use it as a practice Line of sight bird
my last hope is to install an F4 FC ( i looked in to the F4 NOXE ) i do not want to spend 45+ on a FC for this project
I have a tyro129 that i have not yet finished cause i stole the ESC for the bugs project also i have a LDARC 200GT 5" that is flying right now that one have the dreaded angle drift problem after 2 minutes it start drifting more and more to a side until you cant compensate even with full roll stick so you need to land and reset the accelerometer i found a fix that rely on going to the CLI and doind sime ACC_ something commands but BF4.1 do not have those anymore maybe i need to go back to 3.5.7 or 3.4 that it was originally
(19-Nov-2019, 10:55 AM)bLoWsMokE Wrote: You can literally see the drone wobbling all over the place! I'm actually surprised it DOESN'T just fly straight away...... I fear that if you start messing with the PID loop you might get something like this happen where the quad wants to just shoot to the sky and fly away..... or just flip out and go nuts... So when and if you do start messing with the PIDS BE CAREFUL when you try to fly it for the first time... make sure it doesn't wanna fly away on ya.
i have my arm switch on the A switch on my FLYSKY I6 any crazy behavior and i just disarm the bird and it falls to the ground instantly
yeah, i tried the filter sliders all the way to the right ( minimal filtering ) and it tried to fly away lol it just climb 4 feet then it was disarmed and fell down
now i know how a flyaway looks like
i will try some more before abandoning the frankenbugs project
(19-Nov-2019, 05:23 PM)rolo95 Wrote: i have my arm switch on the A switch on my FLYSKY I6 any crazy behavior and i just disarm the bird and it falls to the ground instantly
yeah, i tried the filter sliders all the way to the right ( minimal filtering ) and it tried to fly away lol it just climb 4 feet then it was disarmed and fell down
now i know how a flyaway looks like
i will try some more before abandoning the frankenbugs project
lol ur gonna end up burnin up the motors going nuts like that ;D
make sure you check those motors after flying for a short time. I don't think ur gonna get it to fly much or any better than the guy had it in the video..... The filters can only do so much and that thing is visibly wobbling back and forth.... The PID loop can only do so much in GOOD conditions let alone in those conditions....
A good analogy would be trying to tune shocks on a truck to drive smooth like on pavement but on a cobble stone road..... No matter how good your shocks are, driving 30mph on a cobble stone road is gonna be bumpy and nuts.... the shocks will help but they can only do so much.....
(20-Nov-2019, 04:40 PM)rolo95 Wrote: ic, so how MJX did to tune the thing with the stock FC that i am pretty sure was an F3
if they did with a "cheapo" AIO, why i cant with a "Racing" setup
I get what you are saying..... it's most likely about the motors matching up to the FC they use...
TBH that is a good question. But I'm sure that the set up they use stock needs to be that specific set up to get it to work out of the box.
It might actually be BECAUSE the AIO is cheap and works specifically with those motors..... I suspect that if you got standard brushless motors and swapped the originals out you could get a decent flight characteristic proly as good as the MJX has stock..... Maybe it has to do with the ESC and how much power it allows the motor to draw.
You're taking their puzzle and replacing a few pieces with pieces from another puzzle that fit... but the puzzle isn't really evet gonna work the way it did with the original puzzle pieces..... IDK if that's a good analogy but there it is.
When it comes to something flying through the air and perfectly no-less, everything kinda has to work in harmony.... Something isn't harmonizing, but I really couldn't tell you exactly what that is... it's likely a few different things.
There is something you could try though.... You could try getting different sized propellers and experimenting..... Try soft mounting the flight controller....
(21-Nov-2019, 07:48 PM)rolo95 Wrote: if it still do the same is the SPRacing F3 that is flawed
I don't know how bad your drone is wobbling/oscillating.... Is it possible for you to make a video of your drone hovering? If it's not worse than the guy in the videos drone then... Well, I mean... if it's not then you have to assume the guy also has a faulty FC.
But yeah if you switch everything over into a regular frame you should have a far better experience. Every thing I've said is assuming your flight characteristics are about the same as the guys in that video you sent.
It's probably possible, but I've never heard of an FC being faulty in a way that causes the drone to just oscillate and wobble. Usually if the FC is faulty the drone will just go nuts, or not fly at all.... (ie, not even be able to arm). Did you calibrate the accelerometer on it? And when you have tested it's flight, were you already in acro mode or are you hovering it in angle mode?
One last thing I've meaning to ask.... Do you know what kind of motors the MJX has? The size... the KV?
That seems like a very particular motor size... I'm not an engineer and others would proly know better than me, but my guess is that those motors are designed to work with their FC/ESC or the other way around... They're very uncommon sized motors from what I've seen, and are proly designed for a very specific set up...
Like when you go to 6s drones you take the motors from 2206-2307 @ 2000+ kv to a larger 2308 motor with a lower KV 1800. So ur on a far smaller battery than those and a really low KV so I suspect this is where the issue is coming from.... it's probably very specific to the way they manufactured the MJX drones. It probably has to do with cost, they don't have to perform as good as a racing drone but they can work around that to get it to do good at what It's made for.
For example I'll copy this I just read a 1750 kv motor on 6S produces approximately the same RPM at the prop as a 2450 kv motor on 4S.
About the frame, there is like no room for a camera if you ever wanted to do that.... but for LOW it looks pretty good actually for that price.... I've bought cheap frames before and have been happy for the most part... sometimes you get build challenges though... like on the last frame I got I literally had to omit 2 standoffs because my ESC covered the screw hols on one side..... However, the frame was still really sturdy even like that, the two front standoffs were thick and I use zipties to tighten the back, it worked really good actually.....
I'm not the one to be askign about 5 inch drone frames though, I have no experience with them, I've never even flown a 5 inch xD
(21-Nov-2019, 11:43 PM)bLoWsMokE Wrote: That seems like a very particular motor size... I'm not an engineer and others would proly know better than me, but my guess is that those motors are designed to work with their FC/ESC or the other way around... They're very uncommon sized motors from what I've seen, and are proly designed for a very specific set up...
Lol the LDARC 200GT have the same 1806 motors , i have one , and off course they use LDARC brand name motors and the MJX(bugs) use some generic cheapo thing that do not have any marking anywhere
so at this point i am debating if i keep going or just throw all the crappy parts to the trashcan
still, something inside me want to know if the cheappy F3 FC is bad, or is the motors and frame of the bugs on All E Rc site, there is some cheapo motors, maybe i will get a set , and the frame and see what happens with the F3 but before i will upload some videos of the frankenstein i made lol
Gezzz![[-]](https://intofpv.com/images/collapse.png)
