Posts: 1,530 Threads: 49 Likes Received: 721 in 532 posts Likes Given: 481 Joined: Oct 2020 Reputation: 93 (19-Jan-2021, 12:09 PM)romangpro Wrote: None of the ecalc values make any sense.
GNB HV 1100mah 4S is 88g. 5S version is 110g.
I dont know why you are using SunnySky 1104.
You should be getting 30min+ hover. Which values don't make sense? For the battery, eCalc requires weight per cell, so 22g x 4S = 88g. I wrote up a quick tutorial of eCalc here if you want to learn how to use it: https://intofpv.com/t-fun-with-ecalc-mic...e-dji-quad The motor choice was explained in the first post here. I am skeptical of the specs on the SunnySky 1104, but the resistance is accurate and as long as the Kv turns out to be correct those are the main two parameters that impact performance. I also ordered some Flywoo NIN 1404-4850s to have as a backup should the SunnySkys not work our. According to the calculations on the first page they should just be capable of 10km range with this setup. Why would you expect over a 30 min hover on a 1100mAh 3S battery? Posts: 5,967 Threads: 47 Likes Received: 2,798 in 2,259 posts Likes Given: 7,778 Joined: Jul 2019 Reputation: 97 So far, my best Fly Time with the 3S 1100 mAh GNB battery (which weighs 66 grams) is a little over 17 minutes on a quad with an AUW of 176 grams (including battery). That would be my Phantom-X build with 1303 5000kv motors spinning 4 inch Gemfan Hurricane 4024 props. ![[-]](https://intofpv.com/images/collapse.png) • Posts: 1,507 Threads: 98 Likes Received: 577 in 470 posts Likes Given: 0 Joined: Nov 2020 Reputation: 27 I saw low KV and assumed you would try 4S or even 5S • Posts: 1,530 Threads: 49 Likes Received: 721 in 532 posts Likes Given: 481 Joined: Oct 2020 Reputation: 93 (20-Jan-2021, 07:03 AM)romangpro Wrote: I saw low KV and assumed you would try 4S or even 5S I wouldn't consider 5500KV low, but I am surprised eCalc is pointing toward such a small motor (1104). For max efficiency, it seems that matching the motor to the propeller load is critical. I'm just hoping it's still torque-y enough to give a good flying experience. My Phantom frame should be here tomorrow, I'm tempted to install the SunnySky's on that to try them out... • Posts: 1,530 Threads: 49 Likes Received: 721 in 532 posts Likes Given: 481 Joined: Oct 2020 Reputation: 93 21-Jan-2021, 01:17 AM (This post was last modified: 21-Jan-2021, 01:17 AM by V-22.)  Just realized the Goku micro stack has a BLHeli_S ESC, so I'll likely run into the same LVC issue Joshua A did and won't be able to use it with the 18650 pack... If it comes down to it, I could save 2-3g by switching to the Tiny Talon micro ESC, but I guess I'll just stick with the Goku AIO boards for now. • Posts: 5,967 Threads: 47 Likes Received: 2,798 in 2,259 posts Likes Given: 7,778 Joined: Jul 2019 Reputation: 97 Ok, so I am really confused about the BLHeli_S ESC "issue" and using 2S cells. I am a little bit lost here  Now, my Phantom-X quad has a GEPRC Stable F411 16x16 stack with BLHeli_S ESC 12A...AND... I have used 2S and 3S LiPo batteries AND 2S and 3S 18650 3000 mAh batteries with NO issues. Even after re-reading all of the posts, I can't figure out what am I missing here ??? Please explain 1) what are the issues and 2) what is the deal with BLHeli_S ESC • Posts: 1,530 Threads: 49 Likes Received: 721 in 532 posts Likes Given: 481 Joined: Oct 2020 Reputation: 93 (21-Jan-2021, 04:19 AM)iFly4rotors Wrote: Ok, so I am really confused about the BLHeli_S ESC "issue" and using 2S cells. I am a little bit lost here
Now, my Phantom-X quad has a GEPRC Stable F411 16x16 stack with BLHeli_S ESC 12A...AND... I have used 2S and 3S LiPo batteries AND 2S and 3S 18650 3000 mAh batteries with NO issues.
Even after re-reading all of the posts, I can't figure out what am I missing here ???
Please explain 1) what are the issues and 2) what is the deal with BLHeli_S ESC The issue is most (all?) BLHeli_S ESCs do not allow you to change the "low voltage cutoff" setting. In Joshua_A's case, he was hitting the soft cutoff at 3.5V ( https://intofpv.com/t-leap-4%E2%80%9D-lo...#pid126139). Li-Ion cells can safely be discharged to 3V (or below), so if the ESC won't let you go below 3.5V you're missing out on 30-50+% of the cells capacity depending on discharge rate. Here is the discharge curve for the popular Sony VTC6 cells. The black line is at 3.5V. If you're cruising at 10A to try to make your 10km flight, you'll hit the LVC when the battery is still at 50% capacity.  So to put it more accurately, BLHeli_S ESCs will work with Li-ion batteries, but if the LVC is set to protect a LiPo cell it completely eliminates any benefit of Li-ion's since you won't be able to use anywhere near the full capacity. • Posts: 359 Threads: 14 Likes Received: 163 in 126 posts Likes Given: 1 Joined: Jul 2020 Reputation: 12 The lvc topic has come up periodically on other forums. Seems not all blheli_'s esc''s have this issue. Some do not have a voltage sensor or utilize it in this manner. We just need to make a list of what works for li-ion and what doesn't, I know I have at least one that will let me completely drain and destroy a lipo. https://github.com/bitdump/BLHeli/issues/244 https://github.com/bitdump/BLHeli/issues/284 Posts: 5,967 Threads: 47 Likes Received: 2,798 in 2,259 posts Likes Given: 7,778 Joined: Jul 2019 Reputation: 97 21-Jan-2021, 01:43 PM (This post was last modified: 22-Jan-2021, 12:01 PM by iFly4rotors.) Ok, now I understand what you are saying, but... The little GOKU 16x16 F411 16x16 with BLHeli_S was used in the original Flywoo Explorer. SO...how did all of the reviewers get 28 minutes or so using a 4S 18650 pack ???? Oscar's review, is one of many with similar results. How did they get those almost 30 minute Fly Times??? OR...are you saying that they only ran the battery half way down and could have gotten almost an hour if the "low voltage setting" could have been changed ???? OR...may the Flywoo stacks don't have that limit?? {if this is the case maybe the use of Flywoo stacks is the way to go} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Is the configurator for BLHeli part of Betaflight or is it a separate download. Does it integrate with the Betaflight application or do you have to execute a different program altogether. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posts: 1,530 Threads: 49 Likes Received: 721 in 532 posts Likes Given: 481 Joined: Oct 2020 Reputation: 93 21-Jan-2021, 04:13 PM (This post was last modified: 21-Jan-2021, 04:42 PM by V-22.) Good catch! Maybe the ESC they used does not have the LVC enabled as EVILsteve said. In Oscar's video he's clearly going down to 3.0V/cell or lower. I need to double-check they use the same ESC in the F7 micro stack. It should be here today, so I'll hook it up to a bench top power supply and test. BLHeli is a separate program. Oscar has a ton of great articles about it here: https://oscarliang.com/tag/blheli/ Posts: 3,288 Threads: 129 Likes Received: 2,740 in 1,644 posts Likes Given: 2,969 Joined: Apr 2017 Reputation: 65 All of the ESC boards that I can find from Flywoo are BLHeli-S. Could just by the FC and pick a different ESC, but all of the micro (16x16) appear to be S. There are quite a few 20x20 options that are 32bit. A little heavier, but the frame says it can accept both size boards. Nest the FC in an adapter. SoCal Kaity :D
OMG, no one told me it would be this much fun! Addicted :) Posts: 1,530 Threads: 49 Likes Received: 721 in 532 posts Likes Given: 481 Joined: Oct 2020 Reputation: 93 22-Jan-2021, 04:10 AM (This post was last modified: 22-Jan-2021, 04:14 AM by V-22.) The Flywoo F7 AIO board I have is BLHeli32, the only downside is it weighs 3-4g more than the micro stack. The Tiny Talon 16x16 ESC is 32bit should I need it, but it sounds like the Flywoo BLHeli_S ESCs don't have LVC so maybe it won't be a problem. In hindsight, iFly4Rotors is absolutely right. Flywoo markets these ESCs/FCs for LR builds with Li-Ion packs, and people wouldn't be too happy if their quads shut down 5km away with 50% battery  Posts: 5,967 Threads: 47 Likes Received: 2,798 in 2,259 posts Likes Given: 7,778 Joined: Jul 2019 Reputation: 97 22-Jan-2021, 10:55 AM (This post was last modified: 22-Jan-2021, 12:26 PM by iFly4rotors.) (22-Jan-2021, 03:56 AM)kaitylynn Wrote: All of the ESC boards that I can find from Flywoo are BLHeli-S. Could just by the FC and pick a different ESC, but all of the micro (16x16) appear to be S. There are quite a few 20x20 options that are 32bit. A little heavier, but the frame says it can accept both size boards. Nest the FC in an adapter. Hi Kaity, Same here. All of the 16x16 boards that I found are BLHeli_S. Plus, I found only two companies that produce 26x26 "whoop" format boards with BLHeli_32; Flywoo makes several and BetaFPV makes one, but this board does not have the UARTS for the GPS so I wouldn't even consider it {plus it is BetaFPV}. Also, some of the 20x20 boards do have BLHeli_32, but not all. (22-Jan-2021, 04:10 AM)V-22 Wrote: The Flywoo F7 AIO board I have is BLHeli32, the only downside is it weighs 3-4g more than the micro stack. The Tiny Talon 16x16 ESC is 32bit should I need it, but it sounds like the Flywoo BLHeli_S ESCs don't have LVC so maybe it won't be a problem.
In hindsight, iFly4Rotors is absolutely right. Flywoo markets these ESCs/FCs for LR builds with Li-Ion packs, and people wouldn't be too happy if their quads shut down 5km away with 50% battery Hi V-22, Which Flywoo F7 AIO FC do you have ?? Is it a 26x26 whoop format board ?? I want to be sure that I clearly understand. If I am getting this correct, MOST of the boards that have BLHeli_S are NOT capable of fully utilizing the potential of the Li-Ion batteries such as the 18650 cells by NOT allowing discharge down to 2.5 volts. SO... MOST of them would really NOT be suitable for Long Range applications where Li-Ion batteries would be used. The possible exception being the Flywoo boards which appear to either have the LVC turned off or set to a low value. I have a Flywoo 16x16 stack; it should work for long range even though it has BLHeli_S because Flywoo's ESCs are built for long range and DO NOT have the Low Voltage Cutoff set to 3.5 volts. Is that correct ?? This is all very interesting and perhaps many people don't know about it. Thanks.  • Posts: 3,288 Threads: 129 Likes Received: 2,740 in 1,644 posts Likes Given: 2,969 Joined: Apr 2017 Reputation: 65 Might be worth creating a custom firmware for the S based boards that modifies the LVC, or better yet allows the user to set it. SoCal Kaity :D
OMG, no one told me it would be this much fun! Addicted :) Posts: 1,530 Threads: 49 Likes Received: 721 in 532 posts Likes Given: 481 Joined: Oct 2020 Reputation: 93 22-Jan-2021, 08:30 PM (This post was last modified: 22-Jan-2021, 10:09 PM by V-22.) I probably won't get to it on this build, but these newer XNova T1204 and T1404 motors seem like they could be an option as well. Good power and efficiency. Might be even better on a mild 4" bi-blade if used on a slightly larger LR build. https://pyrodrone.com/collections/new-pr...tor-5000kv https://pyrodrone.com/collections/new-pr...tor-4700kv These Apex Racing 1303.6 motors look promising too: https://pyrodrone.com/products/apex-king...oose-color https://pyrodrone.com/products/apex-king...oose-color • |
