(16-May-2024, 09:51 PM)Pathfinder075 Wrote: ...

So someone is bound to ask why i have two caps on this FC.  The reason is because I couldn't find the XT30 that came with the Darwin FC and I have a lot of these XT30 with cap, power wires in my spares (since I use them a lot).  So I used what i had to hand.  It doesn't seem to have any bad effect on it.  I think the onboard one is a 16V 330uf and the one on the power lead is a 16V 100uf.  But it's all good.

Hi Pathfinder,

Electrically, it is fine to have more than one capacitor. Some might say
that it is overkill, but I don't think so. It does add a bit of extra weight,
but if that doesn't bother you, it will not matter. 

As a side note, the voltages don't even have to be the same. 

Besides my 35V 1000 uf main capacitor, I plan on trying a smaller
cap on the 5V circuit that powers the VTX and camera; maybe a
16V 100 uf or 300 uf cap.

I do have a question. Is there enough clearance to run 2.5 inch 
props on that frame? 

Later, iFly  

I don't actually know. i will try and find out tomorrow. I suspect not, but the 2 inch props have a decent gap between the frame the prop tip so maybe.

Ok was intrigued so went and looked. The answer is no, it hit's the bolts. If you could get a 2.25 inch prop, then it would work, but 2.5 is too long.

Hi Pathfinder,

Thanks. Although I have not done it, I have seen where folks will "trim"
the props to fit; sometimes inside whoops. There are methods to do it.
Yeah, I probably wouldn't. The 2-inch size is fine. It is a cute frame.

If I want, I do have other methods to get 2.5-inch props on it. Hmm. 

Later, iFly  

Risers, mount the motors upside down for a pusher config. Those are ways I can think to get 2.5" props on without chopping them.

Honestly on 2" props and specifically Azure Power 2035 props, it's nippy enough. I should have video this weekend of just how nippy.

Hi Pathfinder,

Yeah, the 2-inch size is not too bad. With the right battery, I could
probably get some decent fly time from it. I actually like the pusher
configuration. Although it doesn't look as cool, a pusher is more
efficient especially on smaller craft. Well, that is how it appears so
far. 

Yes, risers are a good idea and I have used that method in the past.
I have also used arm extensions without any issues. This method does
two things: 1) increases the arm length enough to use 2.5 inch props
and 2) allows me to use motors with a 4 hole mounting pattern.

Regarding the motor mount patter, I do have some 3 hole motors left 
over from the Baby Naz build, but I think 1002 is the largest size that 
I have. However, they might work. If so, that would be a good way 
to put them to use.

I have also re-positioned the standoff columns to provide just enough
clearance. This works better than one might expect, however, it does
change the appearance of the craft. Still, it is an option. 

Even though mounting the battery on top might detract from the looks,
I like top mounted batteries, so that is another consideration and almost
necessary for a pusher of this size. 

Yes, there are all sorts of ways to "over prop" the frame. 

I think the next time that I place an order, this frame will be included.
Even though I prefer the 4 hole motor mounting, I might also order some 
more and different motors with the 3 hole pattern.

Thank you for doing a build with this frame. The more that I see it and
your build, the better I like it. 

Thanks

Later, iFly  

One thing, unrelated to this that you might want to look at, iFly. Darwin do a 1504 3800kv motor designed for 3S, but there is a caveat, it has an unusual mounting pattern (triangular, 10x10mm). The motor is designed for the FoldApe4 and from the blurb was designed for LR or long flight times. I watched Captain Drone's review on YT and kind of thought of you and possibly Seismic, but I think his garden would be too small, but since he has milling equipment, making a frame with a 10x10mm triangular mounting pattern would be a breeze. Also the motors are $7 each. So kind of affordable in comparison to like every other motor on the market. Don't know how they will fly, but mstc has a CineApe25 that uses the 4S version and he said it flew ok. I will let you know since I just ordered a set of the 4S 3600kv version which will be going on a 3" build in the future (or next week if they arrive quickly).

https://darwinfpv.com/products/darwinfpv...9965621423

That is quite interesting that they have 2 different versions of the same motor with some notable differences besides just the kv. The "4S" version is 3600kv which for all practical purposes is the same as the "3S" version at 3800kv, however the 4S version with the 4-hole mount actually weighs less than the 3S version with 3-hole mount (9.1 vs 9.4g). The rotor on the 3S model is "all-in-one" vs split on the 4S, whatever that means. But I am not sure how accurate the thrust test figures are. The 3S motor shows a 1.1a draw at 95g thrust, or a efficiency of 7.2 g/w (typically on a 1404 motor you would expect around 5g/w at the same thrust level).

In terms of efficiency, i'm guessing big stator, low kv, low weight, but im no expert. The reviews suggest it isn't a slouch. For a 4" cruiser with an aim for flight time over raw power it might be a good choice. I do wonder if you can fly those motors on 4S. They seem quite similar.

Hi Pathfinder,

I watched the video. Very interesting.

Later, iFly 

Captain Drone is an entertaining channel to watch, but I wouldn't take any technical information from there. Oscar reviewed the drone, but unfortunately he only used a 550mah battery which is not the correct size for this setup. It looks like an interesting drone though. Its hard to imagine it being more efficient that a lighter 1404 build, but I could be wrong. The 3S motors do have a very low internal resistance, but are rated for a max of 97w, so definitely use motor limits if you run it on 4S as you could easily exceed that.

I haven't ordered any of the 3800kv motors, so can't confirm anything, nor do i have any frames that could take them. I would like to grab a set. over here they are at the same price level as most of the Happymodel motors. Mine cost me £28 ($33) for four. I think I will use them on a 3" build.

Although I don't know for sure, the motors that Darwin is using
appear to be made by or for DJI and "seem" to be lighter in
weight than what we normally buy. 

Now this is interesting. If I understand it correctly, the props
on that foldable drone are for DJI motors which makes sense
as the hole pattern in the bell is a little bit wider than what is
on standard T-Mount motors. The DJI pattern is wider.

I am sure that at some point I will remove the motors from my
Baby Ape and will then weigh them. 

Hi iFly,
The motors on the Baby Ape are quite different than the ones on the CineApe/FoldApe.

Baby Ape has 1104 sized motors, with the non-standard prop mounting screws. These were once rumored as "Emax" motors, but you can find them online for $1-2 and in my experience were so so quality and not too efficient.

Cineape has 1504 motors with standard T-mount holes. I believe the Foldape motor is the same, so the bell is definitely not the same as that of the DJI mini motors although they may have similar stator size (1503). The Foldape motors odd 3-hole mount is similar to that of DJI mini drones, so it is possible the stator part of the motor was "made for" DJI. There are plenty of Mini 2 replacement motors on the market, those start around $8 each. It might well be the Foldape "3S" motor is 1503 versus the 1504 of the Cineape "4S" and could explain some of the spec differences.

In the photo, Cineape motor on the left, DJI Mini 3 on top, and a $20 brushless 1S drone on the bottom.

I am admittedly intrigued at what sort of flight times you could achieve on the 3S version on say a 3S1P on both 3Ah 18650 and 5Ah 21700.  Lightweight 4" build or maybe even a super light 5" build optimised for cruising over raw thrust.  A 3S 18650 will be around 150g with the 30A 3Ah Molicel and a 3S 21700 will be around 200g with a 35A 5Ah Samsung 50S.  Based on the datasheet, you are looking at a flight thrust value between 30% and 40%, depending on the size.

So I might grab a set of them in a week or two and also it seems that FoldApe frame is about the lightest frame you can as well.  Run it on the 1-3S 15A AIO.  Analog build, which leaves me two UARTS for the GPS and anything else I might want.  The frame minus TPU stuff is 51g,motors 37.6g, electronics 20g maybe.  It's going to be over 250g with Li-ion and possibly over 300g with 21700.  A 40g frame would be nice.  Something like the Twig ET5 frame would work at 33g, but no idea if those motors would spin 5" props.  BFPV used to do a 4" Twig and that might have been perfect for this, but I think it's discontinued.  This FEICHAO from Ali might work too, 40 grams dry and a bit more with the GPS mount on the back.  It would need some motor hole work though.



Anyway, getting distracted.

That would be an interesting experiment, but I am skeptical on the motors efficiency claims. Precisely drilling motor holes would be a pain, unless you have a good template to work with, so that would pretty much limit you to using the FoldApe frame. With some higher kv 1404 motors, I've run a 4" setup happily on 2S lion packs (18650 and 21700) and you can easily reach the 30 minute mark. 3S and 1504 motors will probably handle winds better and potentially give you more speed, and the extra cell might give you a tiny bit more flight time if you are conservative with the throttle, but I think 3x21700 maybe pushing the weight limit and you don't need the extra amps or mahs.