That “sounds” like it’s no big deal.. and in a sense isn’t. HOWEVER, unlike pleading ur speeding ticket in traffic court from being “caught in the act”..the Feds with aviation don’t play.. and they can /Will show up to ur house …
Let me lay it out for you..
You took the “trust test” because u wanted to do the right thing.. they have your name, address(along with the other 15-20 people in ur area..
You go to the local “empty ball field” to fly.. Someone nearby dosnt care for quads/drones. (For whatever reason).. makes a complaint.. the local PD does a report.. This “Karen” had them respond every time u fly.. you maybe gone before they arrive.. but it is documented.. This goes into a database “open records”..something happens somewhere (make any story fit)..,- “red flag” is raised.. the FAA or DHS does their due dillagence..makes note of the “flight offense location and time”… they pull the video from traffic cameras (intersections, school zones, ect).. they enter the vehicle’s registration from all the “trust” pilots in that area and BINGO.. low and behold a vehicle matching shows up on each occurrence belonging to the same address …
It’s not grounds for anything.. BUT, guess who got put on the “naughty list”..
And I am NOT making this up… this has been a criminal investigation tool that is currently being used!!!
I remember one time I was in traffic court and a man was pleading his case to the judge.. he said he was “going with the flow of traffic” (arguing how could the officer specifically pick him out as the offending speeder”
The judge asked the man ..” sir, have you ever gone fishing?” The man responded -“yeah..” the Judge then asked..”did u catch ALL of the fish?” The man said -“no”. The judge stated “well , this time YOU got caught..”

First...the Department of Homeland Security. We may think that it is a useless 
department that doesn't do anything BUT,  I have a relative who works for DHS 
and I will tell you that THEY do not view it that way. They are very serious about
what they do, they are more active than we think, but we just don't see them. 
They are more like the fire department...unless there is a fire, you just don't see 
them much...AND...they are {for obvious reasons} NOT broadcasting what they 
are up to. Personally, I think it was pretty slick getting the FAA to do the dirty
work here. We can't see the forest for the trees. 

Consider them more like the fire department, cop in the bushes that you can't see, 
or maybe even a Trojan Horse that appears to do nothing ...but...when you least 
expect it, there they are in full force. Discount it if you want to. 

I looks like the "Fly Away" possibility is how they will keep regulatory authority for
ALL Airpace from the ground up regardless of where it is or who owns the ground
under it. Yep, they already have the answer for any type of lawsuit regarding the
air above one's own property. D*MN. 

By the way, that "Educating the Public" will be something like this...
Report Any Drone Activity because you don't know if it s good or bad
I have already seen something like this...I wish that I had saved the link. 
The FAA wants the public to report any and all drone activity so that it may 
be checked out. So...stay away from people...any people...all people. 

Of course this only applies to US pilots, those in other countries don't have
to worry about it. Right. 

By the way, consider that assuming this is AMAZON or other companies is
merely deflecting the attention from what is REALLY happening.  Focus on
the diversion and miss the Real Deal.

Now let's think about this...does anyone really think that JB is going to leave
Florida, USA and go reside in some foreign country. REALLY.  Yeah, Right. Get
REAL, that ain't gonna happen. However, he might have to get a DAY Job. 

I don't think JB will. Some of the others though, maybe, probably the ones that make a lot of money flying and putting out content. But then you have the ones like Botgrinder that don't really care now and fly while drunk or stoned regardless of the current rules. I think it will be interesting to watch. I don't see as many flights hitting youtube, especially if someone famous in the community gets yanked into a courtroom and made to dance. But then if JB who is pretty much one of the top influencers for FPV, got pulled into a courtroom and fined a lot, would he give up his revenue stream or move to somewhere without draconian rules. I think it boils down to how much you are making. If you get $10 a month from YT, then you probably wouldn't bother. But if all your income from FPV hits $100,000/year or more, then moving to a different country becomes a no-brainer.

For the people who fly for fun, you either jump through a million hoops, go stealth or quit. I guess most will go stealth. Some may continue to try and fly big quads and probably many will get caught and fined/jailed. Eventually it will end up as a hobby that is mainly done underground, using quads suited for hit and rip type tactics, where by you hit the spot, rip a pack or two and be gone before anyone notices you or the cops turn up. We have people that do that over here. One guy i sometimes watch flies in the middle of cities with people around. Basically hits the spot, flies a pack and is gone 5 mins later and that's with a 6S 5" Quad. So maybe some over your side will adopt similar tactics.

Videos will probably end up on Signal and be shared among friends. Or maybe a clandestine version of an IntoFPV site hosted on Tor, Lokinet or I2P with Video Capabilities. But maybe people will just carry on regardless.

I don't envy you all. But I guess something similar will end up over here, eventually. I will be going the stealth route, not that I am overt in what I do right now when flying.

Being “Stealth” isn’t as easy as it used to be.. EVERYONE has their own version of Remote ID .. the “prove I was there” has become very easy with today’s technology… your cellphone location is ALWAYS documented ..

JB has already publicly stated that he will be applying to have his property classified as a FRIA. If he succeeds then he won't be required to use a Remote ID device in his quads as long as he only flies them within the boundaries of his property and not outside as we sometimes see him doing when he's testing power output levels by flying along the track that leads from his house to the main road at the end. If he does manage to get a FRIA status, that could then set a precedence that other influencers try and follow suit with.

Bot is currently in the process of trying to raise funds to build an FPV Drone Park. I can only guess that he will also try to get that classified as a FRIA, otherwise with September 2023 fast approaching it will be dead in the water before it's even got off the starting blocks.

.. I will be VERY curious on the outcome of both … I’m sure the FAA will be VERY CAREFUL with their decision and wording regarding both…

(07-Dec-2022, 12:11 AM)Rob Axel Wrote: Being “Stealth” isn’t as easy as it used to be.. EVERYONE has their own version of Remote ID .. the “prove I was there” has become very easy with today’s technology… your cellphone location is ALWAYS documented ..

Not to be an ass, but this is the reason for switching your phone off and dropping it in a faraday bag, or leaving it at home. I tend to shut mine down or flight mode it for certain things (going to the gym being a major one and when driving I tend to flight mode it). I also don't run mobile internet all the time, because I find it distracting. If you are off grid, then stealth increases. But it's not infallible. You drive, your plates get tagged, cctv, and beyond. Nothing is easy nowadays and that especially includes going off grid.

(07-Dec-2022, 12:39 AM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: JB has already publicly stated that he will be applying to have his property classified as a FRIA. If he succeeds then he won't be required to use a Remote ID device in his quads as long as he only flies them within the boundaries of his property and not outside as we sometimes see him doing when he's testing power output levels by flying along the track that leads from his house to the main road at the end. If he does manage to get a FRIA status, that could then set a precedence that other influencers try and follow suit with.

Bot is currently in the process of trying to raise funds to build an FPV Drone Park. I can only guess that he will also try to get that classified as a FRIA, otherwise with September 2023 fast approaching it will be dead in the water before it's even got off the starting blocks.

That could be a way around things. I suppose that exemption requires a backhander to the government.

(06-Dec-2022, 10:46 PM)iFly4rotors Wrote: First...the Department of Homeland Security. We may think that it is a useless 
department that doesn't do anything BUT,  I have a relative who works for DHS 
and I will tell you that THEY do not view it that way. They are very serious about
what they do, they are more active than we think, but we just don't see them. 
They are more like the fire department...unless there is a fire, you just don't see 
them much...AND...they are {for obvious reasons} NOT broadcasting what they 
are up to. Personally, I think it was pretty slick getting the FAA to do the dirty
work here. We can't see the forest for the trees. 

Consider them more like the fire department, cop in the bushes that you can't see, 
or maybe even a Trojan Horse that appears to do nothing ...but...when you least 
expect it, there they are in full force. Discount it if you want to. 

I looks like the "Fly Away" possibility is how they will keep regulatory authority for
ALL Airpace from the ground up regardless of where it is or who owns the ground
under it. Yep, they already have the answer for any type of lawsuit regarding the
air above one's own property. D*MN. 

By the way, that "Educating the Public" will be something like this...
Report Any Drone Activity because you don't know if it s good or bad
I have already seen something like this...I wish that I had saved the link. 
The FAA wants the public to report any and all drone activity so that it may 
be checked out. So...stay away from people...any people...all people. 

Of course this only applies to US pilots, those in other countries don't have
to worry about it. Right. 

By the way, consider that assuming this is AMAZON or other companies is
merely deflecting the attention from what is REALLY happening.  Focus on
the diversion and miss the Real Deal.

Now let's think about this...does anyone really think that JB is going to leave
Florida, USA and go reside in some foreign country. REALLY.  Yeah, Right. Get
REAL, that ain't gonna happen. However, he might have to get a DAY Job. 

I know the DHS is no joke. I think about 60 percent of what they do is a joke and infringes citizens rights [damn patriot act] but far from a joke. They are a very powerful organization with boatloads of resources and a general catch all mission that can be wielded as a political weapon. I know for a fact they suck at their mission because I live in S. Texas. But you are right, when they decide to throw the hammer down, they can do so in full force, and will probably do it when you expect it the least. 

(07-Dec-2022, 01:10 AM)Pathfinder075 Wrote: Not to be an ass, but this is the reason for switching your phone off and dropping it in a faraday bag, or leaving it at home.  I tend to shut mine down or flight mode it for certain things (going to the gym being a major one and when driving I tend to flight mode it).  I also don't run mobile internet all the time, because I find it distracting.  If you are off grid, then stealth increases.  But it's not infallible.  You drive, your plates get tagged, cctv, and beyond.  Nothing is easy nowadays and that especially includes going off grid.


That could be a way around things.  I suppose that exemption requires a backhander to the government.

Yeah, automated license plate systems are a real thing. No such thing as privacy or anonymity on public roads. My whole theory is I don't think they would expend all of the resources on what Karens whine about, unless they really were bored. I live in a populated area, where the police have plenty of stuff to do, they get kept busy with the gangs and illegals and probably wouldn't be worried about wayward UAS pilots. 

On the phone thing, too many dumbasses get caught by having their phone with them. If I were planning on doing something illegal, I know I am not taking a tracking device with me.

That said, I fly over my neighborhood all the time, most everyone is in their house or car so I may take ops over people a little too far, but Karens love to whine and complain on nextdoor about everything. I haven't had one complaint about any of my aircraft. Even my quads. Shocking. Now if you make too much noise at the park, or you ride a minibike around, you will get an earful.

We joined the AMA back in the eighties and found it to be a horrible experience. I remember an old guy screaming at me cause I strayed outta my box a foot.  (I was the only flyer). Caused my plane to crash while I was landing, my buddies yelling at him because the guy is causing an unsafe condition. Imagine the portrayers of safety causing thing to be not safe. Could have said something after the plane was on the ground right. They weren’t even like sorry that they caused the crash. They didn’t pay for the plane either. No thanks I would never join again. Yes they will hate drones and will most likely harass people who want to fly them. I don’t believe they wanted drones in the first place and that this was forced on them. They will make it so know one will want to join! That has got to be the worst club ever. The people that run it are arrogant #@$holes. Will never have anything to do with them. Did I mention I joined again in the late nineties…same crowd diiferent state.

I have discovered through my years.. most “clubs” are not for me. Thee is always that “one guy” that easily gets offended and takes things way over the top. Always “the authority” of whatever the club is.. purist, no modifications or changes.. and no room for “differences”…
Sad part is most of these clubs start with great ideas and intentions.. just people gathering enjoying that ever hobby they share…
There are a few older guys that fly fixed wings near my area.. They were very inviting, and interested in my quads and fpv..I gave them the fpv basics.. and even explained how to add fpv to their aircraft very cheaply. They were polite but were not interested.
After I flew… and they observed the aerobatics of the quads .. their interest got piequed a little different as they flew high and slow..

Personally, I think it is pretty easy to be stealthy, but {just like everything else}
it depends on how you go about it. First, keep the quad small. Whether it is actually
sub-250 or not is less important than the size. Something that one can hardly see
at 200 ft altitude or more. Next, fly it high. Even a 3 inch at 300 ft is very hard to
see especially if you didn't know it was there in the first place...oh yeah, and try
tracking it. You want to be noticed, fly it at 20 ft, yep everyone will see it.

The next thing is speed. If you fly fast, the quad is harder to track, but makes much
more noise. So, if it goes fast it is hard to track, but everybody knows it is up there
due to the noise. Of course this all depends on the setup. Is it set up for noise or
quiet; motors, props, rpm, etc. When I fly one of my 4 inch quads at about 350 ft
to 375 ft, I can't hear it and it is harder to see than you might think. Not invisible,
but you have to be looking for it. 

Yes, Fly It Like You Stole It.  I've been saying that for years now. 
You know the drill: 

1) PREP everything back at the house. Including having the battery strapped on.
2) Turn phone off, put in bag...BEFORE arriving at location; maybe at home. Hmm.
2) At a location, strap up inside the vehicle. Get ready before exposing anything.
3) Fly the battery pack that is strapped on the quad.
4) After that one flight, Quickly, pick up the quad and LEAVE.
5) Only turn phone back on when you are well away from the location. 

Then, of course, DO NOT fly where there are people. Part of being stealthy is the
location. Flying where there are people is just asking for trouble; you just never 
know; as I found out. DO NOT presume or assume that no one who cares would
be in the area. 

Ah, the phone thing. It is a good idea to turn the phone off. Even though I don't
have my location turned on, turning the phone off is probably better. I like the 
Faraday bag idea...think that I might pick one up; just in case. By the way, if the
phone thing is an issue, it would need to be off and packed BEFORE you get to 
the fly location and NOT turned back on until you are away from the location.

Now, here is an interesting thought: Since most people never turn their phone
off, they could check for phones that are turned off and then back on within
a certain mile radius of a reported flight. If there is only one, then that might
at least be a flag. Then they start tracking that phone. Hmmm. Nay, they would
not do that ! Right ? Now we are getting ridiculous, Right ?

If the phone matters, then maybe leave the phone on and just leave it at home.

On the phone side, if you really must, then carry a burn phone.  Something cheap, PAYG style, no internet features, like a Nokia 3310.  Keep it powered down nevertheless, but you know if you break down, you can use it to get help.  If it comes with a battery, remove it and you can skip the faraday bag (unless you are crazy paranoid or doing something to warrant crazy paranoid).

If you upload videos to youtube, make them private and give access only to friends.  No public access.  It's not infallible, but it's better than nothing.  Be aware the gov can probably still get access to them, so if they have a hard on for getting you, then that's what will end up presented to a jury at any court case.  I'm definitely 50/50 about whether I would even post them at all if I lived in the US. 

I think if I had a good rip and wanted to share it, I would probably upload the mp4 to a vps I controlled, in a country that wasn't allied to the US (there are a few).  You can get cheap VPS from lowendbox for next to nothing.  I picked up one last month for $6/year with 100GB storage, 500GB xfer, 256MB Ram and 1 vCPU, and it was available in a handful of reasonably safe countries including Hong Kong (where they don't really give a crap about drone pilots or videos).  Just make sure the company that owns them is based in some out of the way country like Kazakhstan or Seychelles, etc.  Anyway, that type of spec will be fine for storing things, maybe even as a glorified SFTP site.  Share your rips among small numbers of pilots and stay safe.

The solution to number plates is probably a mountain bike or electric bike (or scooter).  It also adds the advantage of being able to go places other vehicles can't.  Probably won't work for some people and not in winter, but might for some.

(07-Dec-2022, 02:59 PM)Pathfinder075 Wrote: On the phone side, if you really must, then carry a burn phone.  Something cheap, PAYG style, no internet features, like a Nokia 3310.  Keep it powered down nevertheless, but you know if you break down, you can use it to get help.  If it comes with a battery, remove it and you can skip the faraday bag (unless you are crazy paranoid or doing something to warrant crazy paranoid).

If you upload videos to youtube, make them private and give access only to friends.  No public access.  It's not infallible, but it's better than nothing.  Be aware the gov can probably still get access to them, so if they have a hard on for getting you, then that's what will end up presented to a jury at any court case.  I'm definitely 50/50 about whether I would even post them at all if I lived in the US. 

I think if I had a good rip and wanted to share it, I would probably upload the mp4 to a vps I controlled, in a country that wasn't allied to the US (there are a few).  You can get cheap VPS from lowendbox for next to nothing.  I picked up one last month for $6/year with 100GB storage, 500GB xfer, 256MB Ram and 1 vCPU, and it was available in a handful of reasonably safe countries including Hong Kong (where they don't really give a crap about drone pilots or videos).  Just make sure the company that owns them is based in some out of the way country like Kazakhstan or Seychelles, etc.  Anyway, that type of spec will be fine for storing things, maybe even as a glorified SFTP site.  Share your rips among small numbers of pilots and stay safe.

The solution to number plates is probably a mountain bike or electric bike (or scooter).  It also adds the advantage of being able to go places other vehicles can't.  Probably won't work for some people and not in winter, but might for some.

I honestly don't think we're going to need to go through all of that unless we are being really obnoxious, which incidentally this law makes me want to do. 

A fun act of civil disobedience would be to go swarm the FAA hq with non compliant aircraft on the effective date, but I am sure that would be a mess and that would do nothing but prove them right as there would be so many crashes, lol. 

I do like the point about registering for TRUST though, how it is now an REGISTRY of whoever flew any UAS. We signed up to be good, law abiding citizens only to stupidly put ourselves on the radar.

Today, I FINALLY got in some sticktime.. flew everything from my 1s to my 5” 6s basher…..did it on my street, around my house.. popped up above the tree line once or twice, lost / found my 2.5” fav .. and thought..
I AM NOT gonna jump through these hoops, just to enjoy a hobby that isn’t harming anyone..

For anyone who didn't already see it, below is a good rundown and comparison video of the 3 current CBO's that Pilot Institute published last week...