I thought we would never see the day, but I think that flying session with Stingy was the turning point which finally changed everything.

If anyone was on the fence about switching to digital or staying on analogue then this video is well worth watching, even if you hate Steele. His No-nonsense commentary and opinions are straight to the point.



And this was the original flying session with Stingy...

Even if I had his bank account I probably wouldn't do it yet. I've invested way too much into analog to switch and I really don't feel anything is missing anyway.

Plus I think those goggles are ugly AF and WAY too big.

Saw that. I think it is a inadvertent slap in the face to Fat Shark especially given the timing (getFPV is to send beta testers emails any day now for early purchase). Honestly in most if not all videos I watch that have to do with FPV HD, it's as if Fat Shark didn't even exist.

And in Steele's particular case, it's not like he is not aware of it ...

Unfortunately the reality is that FatShark are too late to the party. Most people who wanted to get into HD FPV just went out and got the DJI FPV gear already. And people who still don't have any HD FPV gear will likely see the DJI kit as a tried, tested and trusted solution that "just works" and is available to buy as a full production system right now.

Rotor Riot have been a avid promoter of the DJI FPV gear so it will be really interesting to see what happens now that FatShark are part of the Red Cat and Rotor Riot family. Will Rotor Riot still continue to promote and push what is now effectively competitor's product?

(23-Oct-2020, 11:18 PM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: Unfortunately the reality is that FatShark are too late to the party. Most people who wanted to get into HD FPV just went out and got the DJI FPV gear already. And people who still don't have any HD FPV gear will likely see the DJI kit as a tried, tested and trusted solution that "just works" and is available to buy as a full production system right now.

True, but there are many DJI haters (or fatshark fan boys) who will jump on the digital wagon when they produce something. So they'll make their money, just not nearly as much as they could have. But I'm a perfect example of what you say. I got into FPV, wanted image quality over a minor latency gain and so chose digital. DJI was the only option but would choose a tried system over a new market entry.

I just don't get why people hate digital so much. Is it cause they just hate DJI? I can understand someone saying no to it cause they look ugly or they want less latency until digital matures. But people have to face it that it will change. As digital gets better (components getting smaller, faster, cheaper) it will take over. Just look at how much DJI has even developed their own system since the start. Like 20 years ago people saying "screw email. I'm sticking with fax". It's exactly as MrSteele says, they have different target audiences at the moment. One is not the devil.

(24-Oct-2020, 07:49 AM)AlanB1976 Wrote: True, but there are many DJI haters (or fatshark fan boys) who will jump on the digital wagon when they produce something. So they'll make their money, just not nearly as much as they could have. But I'm a perfect example of what you say. I got into FPV, wanted image quality over a minor latency gain and so chose digital. DJI was the only option but would choose a tried system over a new market entry.

I just don't get why people hate digital so much. Is it cause they just hate DJI? I can understand someone saying no to it cause they look ugly or they want less latency until digital matures. But people have to face it that it will change. As digital gets better (components getting smaller, faster, cheaper) it will take over. Just look at how much DJI has even developed their own system since the start. Like 20 years ago people saying "screw email. I'm sticking with fax". It's exactly as MrSteele says, they have different target audiences at the moment. One is not the devil.

I'm one of those people who hate DJI as a company and what they stand for, but I bought into their gear for the quality of the equipment and not for the company because you can't deny that that they make really slick top quality products that just work. I do hate the way the DJI FPV Goggles look but they are what they are so we just have to get on with it. When we're flying we're not in a fashion show, so it's practicality and usability over looks. I just got the bug to step into the HD era to see what it's like for myself.

I'm honestly fine flying with analogue video because that is what I started out with so I'm conditioned to fly with it. When you are "in the zone" flying with a high level of concentration it's not actually that bad, but for someone watching as a spectator or someone who has never actually flown on analogue, you can see why those people screw their noses up. I'm sort of happy that I've come via the analogue route because it means I can fly both systems without being too bothered. Obviously HD is going to be a far nicer experience. I guess I'll find out when I actually get my HD quad built and into the air  I do however still intend to continue flying my analogue quads.

Kevin posted this on YT.

Mr. Steele will make a lot of money now with his DJI QUad !! That also why i think he put dji google in his arsenal.

Fair play to the guy for changing his opinions.

Different tools for different jobs!

Steele admitted in one of the comments that by putting out that video he's effectively shot himself in the foot with the sales of his analogue gear, but I guess his honest opinions and dispelling some of what he had been said in the past about digital and the DJI gear mattered more.

Why would DJI change anything? They seem to have the market cornered and no real competition. The problem they face is complacency. How fast will the product improve if here is no real competition? Also, there was a news report about two months back that said a secret "back door" had been found in DJI firmware. The story hasn't been publicized much, but with the US relations towards China hardening, this could pose a real threat to DJI in the United States and Europe.

In my opinion, there is no competition. Both has their own strength and weaknesses. Neither of them beats other. Just pick one and have fun.

Ok, so I watched one of Steele's videos using the new TBS Tracer. However, he was using DJI goggles. If he was showcasing how awesome Tracer is (super low latency) why was he using a high latency video (he said in his DJI video that he prefers analogue for low latency stuff). Also didn't seem to stop him doing some awesome low stuff.

Me being cynical (as I have absolutely no evidence and I know many will disagree), maybe DJI isn't that bad and you can work within the latency just fine. Think about it, we're talking thousandths of a second. Average human reaction to an unknown event was something like 200ms. But then, I'm getting old so probably wouldn't notice latency in the seconds

(05-Nov-2020, 12:54 PM)AlanB1976 Wrote: Ok, so I watched one of Steele's videos using the new TBS Tracer. However, he was using DJI goggles. If he was showcasing how awesome Tracer is (super low latency) why was he using a high latency video (he said in his DJI video that he prefers analogue for low latency stuff). Also didn't seem to stop him doing some awesome low stuff.

Me being cynical (as I have absolutely no evidence and I know many will disagree), maybe DJI isn't that bad and you can work within the latency just fine. Think about it, we're talking thousandths of a second. Average human reaction to an unknown event was something like 200ms. But then, I'm getting old so probably wouldn't notice latency in the seconds

Steele is one of the few people I trust when he talks about latency. He flies like a nervous cat with ADHD on cocaine. I doubt that most of us would be able to feel the difference in latency between Crossfire and Tracer.

(05-Nov-2020, 12:54 PM)AlanB1976 Wrote: Ok, so I watched one of Steele's videos using the new TBS Tracer. However, he was using DJI goggles. If he was showcasing how awesome Tracer is (super low latency) why was he using a high latency video (he said in his DJI video that he prefers analogue for low latency stuff). Also didn't seem to stop him doing some awesome low stuff.

Me being cynical (as I have absolutely no evidence and I know many will disagree), maybe DJI isn't that bad and you can work within the latency just fine. Think about it, we're talking thousandths of a second. Average human reaction to an unknown event was something like 200ms. But then, I'm getting old so probably wouldn't notice latency in the seconds

Us mere mortals likely won't be able to tell the difference, however remember that latency is the SUM of all parts...

1. You move the sticks and the quad then responds, after a period of latency
   
2. The camera sees the commanded move and transmits that back to your goggles, after a period of latency
   
3. Your brain then processes what your eyes are seeing, which takes a period of time
   
4. Your brain then tells your fingers to move the sticks accordingly, which takes a period of time
   

And the loop then starts all over again. All of those latency and time periods add up to the whole OVERALL latency of each single feedback loop so if you can decrease any one of those time periods ist will decrease the overall latency/reaction time of each loop.

So with the higher latency of DJI goggle video coupled with the lower latency of Tracer, the overall latency of each feedback loop will be closer to the overall low latency analogue video coupled with the higher latency of Crossfire. The latter is probably still faster but with Tracer the gap is closed. But most "average" pilots probably still won't be able to tell or feel the difference.

He's probably also trying to use it as an excuse as to why his opinion of the DJI FPV system suddenly changed overnight when he previously poo-poo'd the system, and don't forget that he has a strong affiliation with TBS, so you sometimes have to take things with a pinch of salt.