It's my first proper pusher build! Thanks for the frame, M.!

The frame on my last 85mm 3s whoop build died, so this is getting a transplant of most of its bits.

AIO FC: DarwinFPV 15a elrs
Motors: HGLRC 1103 8000kv
Cam: Foxeer Razer Nano
VTX: HappyModel OVX300
VTX Antenna: TBS Triumph Pro

Battery: 3s. 450mah, 900mah, or 1100mah.
Props: Starting with HQ T2x2.5x3. I also have some I-don't-know-what-brand 2x5x3- these buggers are pretty brittle, and they couldn't handle a crash on my last 85mm build, but they're a bit more protected in this build so they might work out well. I've also got my standard 2" props: GemFan 2035BN quad blades.

I've been avoiding doing a pusher build for a while, because I found it intimidating. Now that I've built one, I can see that there was nothing to be intimidated about.

I don't know about other pusher builds, but with this one, the frame is laid out so that it's essentially just a typical whoop build. It took a bit more thought to wrap my head around it, but, this frame has the AIO sitting in the middle of the ducts/guards like any other whoop build, and that carbon fiber bit on top that holds the vtx and cam is basically a big canopy.

I usually go props out on my builds to keep grass and rain from getting pushed into my camera, but, that's not an issue with this build because of the prop guards and cam placement, and once I flipped the motors they became props in- so I left them that way.

I crash more often than I land, but when I land, I skid in on concrete- so I installed some zip ties to use as wearable replaceable landing "skids".

I really appreciate that they included some motor spacers. Using them, I ended up needing m2 x 6mm bolts for my motors. My only 6mm m2 bolts are phillips head- I don't like using those, but, because I don't know what kind of plastic the frame is made out of, I'm not using loctite, so, hopefully I won't have any issues with stripped screws. I'd really prefer hex socket bolts.

After I bolted the camera on, I really wasn't happy with how exposed it was. When I crash, I tend to crash upside down on gravel or concrete- with the angle and placement of the cam, I'd be grinding on the top of lens.

So, I did a quick print of a lens protector. I'm glad I did, because that cam is exposed- every time I crash it gets knocked up. That's not the right wording. It doesn't get pregnant- It'd be awesome if every crash resulted in more baby cameras. Every time I crash it goes from my set camera angle to an almost 90 degree angle. If it wasn't for that lens protector, I'd end up with scratches all up in that thing.


I don't do any cinematic type stuff, so a "cinewhoop" isn't something I would typically care about- but, I've been really excited about this build because when ph2t built this frame, from his videos, it seemed like this this frame can handle really low close to ground flight without significant ground effect- in other words, it seemed like it could fly really low without getting all wobbly.

That would make it an ideal winter racer for me, because when I'm flying in the dark, I'd like to stay low and close.

It handles *great* low to the ground. Yay!

I can't tell you how much flight time it'll get. I keep crashing because my piloting skills are meh, and on top of that, we're officially at that time of year where we're regularly at or below freezing. All of my batteries are well used and abused, but they are showing it more than they have in the past with the temperature drop. I'm going from 4.2v to 3.8 or 3.5 volts within a minute or so on all of my quads.

New batteries are not in my budget, and shouldn't really be needed- so I'm gonna hafta figure out a safe diy battery warmer. In the meantime I'll just start stuffing all of my charged batteries into my pockets and use my body heat.

Video below is a couple slow laps. My diy lap timer doesn't want to receive raceband, so I'm on F1.

So far, I'm loving it. I didn't finish the build until 9pm tonight, so I couldn't really push it- Saturday evening I'll be able to properly send it. 

I'm at 89g dry, so it's a bit heavy. 134g with a 450mah 3s, 166g with a 900mah 3s, and 162g with an RDQ 1100mah HV 3s. All of my batteries that are 550mah and higher have thick shrink wrap for protection, and that adds quite a few grams.

I accidently uploaded an avi to vimeo instead of converting it to an mp4, so, turn your sound off before you hit play.

nice
i could use my 1103 pusherquad without screws backthan, shutterbugs trick of dental silk

what plastic is the frame? i have some old lightweight propguards from ldarc/kingkong, from an et125, which are out of a very nice material, not seen anymore

Hi Lemony,

Very Nice Looking PUSHER quad.   The frame is pretty COOL     GOOD JOB 

Now, what is the dry weight ??

By the way, are those motor spacers in that first picture ??
Where did you get them ??

(10-Nov-2022, 10:36 AM)hugnosed_bat Wrote: nice
i could use my 1103 pusherquad without screws backthan, shutterbugs trick of dental silk

what plastic is the frame? i have some old lightweight propguards from ldarc/kingkong, from an et125, which are out of a very nice material, not seen anymore

I was hoping to be able to just push on the props, but they were really loose. Might have been ones that I’ve previously reamed out to make them easier to take off, or they might have come that way. I forgot all about the dental floss trick, I used to use that on my brushed whoops. I’ll have to give it a try and see if I can ditch those prop screws, thanks!

I’ve got no idea what kind of plastic it is. It’s got a small amount of flex and doesn’t seem brittle in the cold.

(10-Nov-2022, 01:30 PM)iFly4rotors Wrote: Hi Lemony,

Very Nice Looking PUSHER quad.   The frame is pretty COOL     GOOD JOB 

Now, what is the dry weight ??

By the way, are those motor spacers in that first picture ??
Where did you get them ??

Dry weight is 89g, it’s not light, but it’s pushing 3s so it’s not lacking power.

Those are motor spacers in the first pic. They came with the frame- I checked LDARC’s website to see if they can be bought separately, but I couldn’t find them.

Nice to see the build come through man! I've use those rice/grain heat bags - you know the ones for back pain etc. I heat them up and wrap the lipos up in them. The packs dont need to be hot like you would have for treating pain but sitting around the 40deg c range and let the lipos sit in there. They will come out warm and ready to dump that current.

(10-Nov-2022, 11:08 PM)ph2t Wrote: Nice to see the build come through man! I've use those rice/grain heat bags - you know the ones for back pain etc. I heat them up and wrap the lipos up in them. The packs dont need to be hot like you would have for treating pain but sitting around the 40deg c range and let the lipos sit in there. They will come out warm and ready to dump that current.

Awesome! Thanks. I’ve already got a few socks filled with rice around the house, I’ll have to make one sized for one of my fireproof bags.

That sounds a hell of a lot safer and easier than tearing apart a cup warmer or the base of a coffee maker……

Haha, Kingkong Lives Too !!

Every time I look at my Whoops, I think, "How can I get even more grass & krap stuck in my props and ducts?" Then I say, "I know, turn the props upside down, aimed at the ground & stuff them in a cage !!"

I'm not a fan of those backassward upside down props at all . . . but . . . 

I haven't tried my Darwin board yet, probably gonna be a while too. The Razers are great little cams & the 12x12 Pico Razer is as good as the Nano, just wish they had a menu like the Ants & the other Caddx cams I use. I got a bunch of those HGLRC 1103s from Cyclone on a super sale, but got a bunch of 10,000kvs for my 85 Whoops, and I put the 8000kvs on that 95 Whoop I just finished. I have the HappyModel triangle vTxs with the dvr & one without. No problems with either of them & they get as good range as all my other 200mW vTxs. I'll put another rubber spacer above the board on the screw posts & slide the vTx into those and then, bolt it down with the f/c. That absorbs any vibration & holds it in place very nicely. Good choice of parts BTW . . . 8^}

(10-Nov-2022, 10:36 AM)hugnosed_bat Wrote: nice
i could use my 1103 pusherquad without screws backthan, shutterbugs trick of dental silk

what plastic is the frame? i have some old lightweight propguards from ldarc/kingkong, from an et125, which are out of a very nice material, not seen anymore 

The KK ET prop guards are just about indestructible, but the ones on the 115 & 125 are both oddball sizes. The ET115 has 2.3" guards & props & the ET125 has 2.8" guards & props. From the thrust tests I've seen with their props, they must have a pretty steep or harsh pitch, they really pull a lot of amps. Those ETs are rather portly too, and kinda surprised me with their weight. I got a 125 frame kit, and it was pretty much a waste of money for me. The canopies, both styles, are nice & roomy, but don't really fit the "regular" Whoop frame.

Check out Nick's video of ET vs OakTree . . . the battle starts at about 4:46



The last pic is the ET 125 frame & it's 2.8" ducts on top, bottom is a Gnarly Primo 3" with a 2 1/2" HGLRC duct for 2 1/2" props & an HGLRC 3" duct for the 3" props. The 2 1/2" props are definitely too small for the ET 2.8s. I put the HGLRC 2 1/2" ducts on the Primo for a nice fast large economy size Whoop. It was a lot of fun, definitely fast, but bigger than the 95s with the Beta frames & 2 1/2" props, but the Primo Whoop was definitely losing that "Whoopish" feeling flying it. Nothing bad, just not that feeling of invincibility like flying a smaller sized, even the 95, Whoop.

That ET100 looks like a whoop frame that could actually handle my “flying”.

I actually really like this DarwinFPV board, once I figured out that it wasn’t having a problem, I was just being stupid.

I also really like the HGLRC 1103 8000kv motors- especially on 3s. They come down only a little bit warm even with high pitch 2” props.

(11-Nov-2022, 02:53 AM)Lemonyleprosy Wrote: That ET100 looks like a whoop frame that could actually handle my “flying”.

I actually really like this DarwinFPV board, once I figured out that it wasn’t having a problem, I was just being stupid.

I also really like the HGLRC 1103 8000kv motors- especially on 3s. They come down only a little bit warm even with high pitch 2” props.

Thought Grayson Hobby did a review vid with the ET too, I think they're one of the biggest KK/LDARC dealers in the states, and they kept slamming an ET into the steel door to their stockroom, & kept picking it up . . . and kept flying it . . . tuff little critter for sure . . . 

I was looking at them, probably back & forth for a couple years from right when they first came out, but just couldn't commit to actually buying an ET, and trying to decide which one. They all are pretty portly & none of them got very good air time. With the 115 & 125, those prop sizes are not all that common, and not a lot of different props to choose from. Their ducts are by far, the strongest ones I've seen, even better than the aluminium ones & I wanted to at least try them out. I got that 125 kit from Xinte dirt cheap, and was hoping I could use the canopies & the ducts from the kit. Those 2.8" ducts are too big for 2 1/2" props. For those "ducts" the props need to be a lot tighter/closer to the ring to have any effect at all, plus it just looks like the wrong size props are on it.

I've read mostly good things about the Darwin board & I do like the 15amps a bit better than the "standard" 12amps . . . the Skystars Kramam board was 15amps too, and just feel better having that extra 3amps just in case. I don't like that little cap they have on it, bigger is better, and on an 85 & bigger the little bit of extra weight isn't even noticeable. The one thing I didn't like was no motor plugs soldered on. The board is gonna sit until I get ambitious enough to solder on the four wired motor plugs, and that's gonna be a bit. I have at least four other new boards that do have the motor plugs on them, so the Darwin can sit and collect dust for a while.

I had read for a while HGLRC made good quality quads & parts, and the reviews I've read have all been pretty positive. I wouldn't have hesitated buying their motors if they were the size/kv I was looking for even at a fair price. These were on sale crazy cheap. I really didn't need them, but that was just too good of a deal to pass on. Only have a couple flights on the new 95, but it flies as good as the GEP 1202/8000s, and seems to get the same kind of air time. It's quickly turning more inside flying around here, and I have a set, with backups, of the HGLRC 1103/10,000s I want to put on an 85, but might be Spring before that happens & I can see how those HGLRC motors do on both Whoops. Good to hear you're pleased with yours, that's a good sign . . .

that was a time, that 7g carbonfiberplate on the et :-) its less weight as whoop, than modern frames without guards or ducts in that size. just guards, no ducts.
its a pretty flexi frame, but from the wideness of the arms, after so many crashes there is still no delamination.

i didnt flew the et125 as default pnp anytime, cant speak about it. as i fly the propguards, i used the 2,8" rotors.
i had these props on an other pnp, walkera rodeo110.
both was used with 1104 motors (maybe the walkera motors was 1105?).

my experience on the 2840 wasnt high ampdraw at all, they seemed to be more efficiency from their higher pitch and wide blades, keeping the rpms low on that tiny motors.
i actual fly these rotors on 1404 4500kv and 3s, carrying naked gopro. next to the limit of 2,8" rotors for that propguards, i really line the rotor.
i would realy line to get good testing t
data for that very very old prop.
the ldarc guards limit the prop choices alot, im fine as i like the one which is available.
todays parts allow a low profile, i doesnt use the canopy on that guards. i didnt like the canopy.
(i guess we cant name that a fault, the et series was befor anyone was mention aio boarddesign for more than 1s quads. maybe the jumper whoop wasnt even on the market, there was no aio with brushless esc back than?)

the et series are all pretty close in weight but not so in rotorsize and thrust, i guess the sweetspot for the choosen material/weight is 2,8", sure 3" would be better about choices.

i would like tl see how the et serie performs on bf4.3, it was a big step for micromotors between bf3.3 and bf 3.5, micro motor heat did eat the motors, bad bearings in short time... when i look back, micros flew worse software related.

A word about ducts or rather prop guards. I have done some extensive research into
duct design and ducts {or more appropriately prop guards} on quads and most of them 
actually do not effect performance in any positive way even if the prop tips are close to
the guards. In fact, I doubt that you could actually get this clearance to be in accordance
with actual duct design theory since the duct "shape" is not actually correct for improved 
thrust, it just isn't. Not according to any duct design theory that I have found. Those little
guards may look like ducts, they may be called ducts, but they just don't perform like ducts.
The notable exceptions are the Shendrones and some other ducts that are taller, have the 
more correct shape, and have at lease been designed to improve efficiency. In actual practice, 
the weight of the duct generally negates any positive improvement in thrust. 

hugnosed_bat Wrote:that was a time, that 7g carbonfiberplate on the et :-) its less weight as whoop, than modern frames without guards or ducts in that size. just guards, no ducts. 
its a pretty flexi frame, but from the wideness of the arms, after so many crashes there is still no delamination.

i didnt flew the et125 as default pnp anytime, cant speak about it. as i fly the propguards, i used the 2,8" rotors.
i had these props on an other pnp, walkera rodeo110.
both was used with 1104 motors (maybe the walkera motors was 1105?).

my experience on the 2840 wasnt high ampdraw at all, they seemed to be more efficiency from their higher pitch and wide blades, keeping the rpms low on that tiny motors. 
i actual fly these rotors on 1404 4500kv and 3s, carrying naked gopro. next to the limit of 2,8" rotors for that propguards, i really line the rotor. 
i would realy line to get good testing t
data for that very very old prop.
the ldarc guards limit the prop choices alot, im fine as i like the one which is available.
todays parts allow a low profile, i doesnt use the canopy on that guards. i didnt like the canopy. 
(i guess we cant name that a fault, the et series was befor anyone was mention aio boarddesign for more than 1s quads. maybe the jumper whoop wasnt even on the market, there was no aio with brushless esc back than?)

the et series are all pretty close in weight but not so in rotorsize and thrust, i guess the sweetspot for the choosen material/weight is 2,8", sure 3" would be better about choices. 

i would like tl see how the et serie performs on bf4.3, it was a big step for micromotors between bf3.3 and bf 3.5, micro motor heat did eat the motors, bad bearings in short time... when i look back, micros flew worse software related.

I thought I saw that Emax has props in that 2.8" size also. Don't remember which quad had them though. Those are the only other props I've seen in that size.

I got a set of the HM 1404s from Xinte real cheap when they first came out. I've been looking for a reasonably strong Pick frame that's around 140 - 144mm that will fit the ducts for 3" props. With their low (to me) kv & running 3 & 4S, they still shouldn't pull too many amps, but that build project is well down the road and not a major priority.

I think the newest version BF I have on any quad is 4.1.x, and all the rest behind that . . . but . . . if it ain't broke . . . I haven't changed/flashed any newer version BF on any of my quads. They all are still running what ever version they came with, & I have no problems or complaints about how any of them fly. I rarely if ever change any of the stock settings anyway.

iFly4rotors Wrote:A word about ducts or rather prop guards. I have done some extensive research into
duct design and ducts {or more appropriately prop guards} on quads and most of them 
actually do not effect performance in any positive way even if the prop tips are close to
the guards. In fact, I doubt that you could actually get this clearance to be in accordance
with actual duct design theory since the duct "shape" is not actually correct for improved 
thrust, it just isn't. Not according to any duct design theory that I have found. Those little
guards may look like ducts, they may be called ducts, but they just don't perform like ducts.
The notable exceptions are the Shendrones and some other ducts that are taller, have the 
more correct shape, and have at lease been designed to improve efficiency. In actual practice, 
the weight of the duct generally negates any positive improvement in thrust. 

I always thought the term "SinnyWhoop" was an oxymoron . . . Whoops were never meant to be a cinematic platform, especially the Tiny 65s & even the 75s. The bigger factory versions of the CineWhoops were all overweight pigs, and I never liked that idea either. Then, along came the Shendrone Squirt.

What changed my mind about HD was Nurkala's video with a Squirt in the City Museum in St. Louis.  

 This vid is awesome, & is what totally changed my mind about a SinnyWhoop . . . but to my version of a Sinny Whoop . . .

I was looking for a lightweight frame that I can bolt on a set of ducts like the Squirt, but wanted to keep the Whoop a lot lighter than what I've seen available. I found a GEP Dolphin on sale super cheap, and while it's a bit bigger than I liked at 152mm, for the price, was close enough. I found some StanFPV ducts for 3" props . . . on sale, of course, that I grabbed to try out. The quad actually flew really good in that setup & especially with the 5 blade props. Still "felt" heavy to me, so I switched the Stan's for some "regular" HGLRC 3" & dropped the weight down to about 172 grams, & this sucker really screams now (last pic on right) . . . so Sinnymatic is back on hold . . .

Added:
Stan says on his site, the ducts, even with the 1/2" smaller props than comes on the not ducted quads, a 3" duct of his fits a 3" sized Pick, but can only fit 2 1/2" props, 2 1/2 " Stans fit 2" props, etc., it will fly better and longer because of the efficiency of those ducts . . . he sez . . .

Brian- the FPVCycle Power Pick 4” is a 154mm pick frame and would definitely fit the 3” prop guards with a little bit of room to spare. It’s definitely bigger than your usual whoop, but it’s reasonably light and strong- I haven’t managed to even break an arm yet. It’s actually the most stable, gentle quad in my fleet (when I run it on 3s instead of 4s) so it’s usually my first flight of the night to ease me into flying.

https://intofpv.com/t-fpvcycle-powerpick-4%E2%80%9D

I just sent my old set of the 5” StanFPV ducts to iFly. They didn’t create enough additional thrust to make up for the additional weight even with the recommended props, and I couldn’t stand the sound of a shopvac flying through the air.
(Edit- I should note that I didn’t actually do any thrust testing, my basis for this statement is that it took significantly more throttle to hover with them than without.)

I usually prefer open prop, but, for some of these micros I’m learning to appreciate prop guards if they’re strong enough to handle multiple high speed hits. Seems like most aren’t.
The guard on this LDARC frame is showing promise though, we’ll see how it holds up when I properly send it this evening.

Hugnosed- was it a common thing for older micro brushless motors to be taller than their stated size? I’ve got a few different sets that are definitely taller than stated, like 1104’s that are more like 1106’s, etc.

(12-Nov-2022, 08:55 PM)Lemonyleprosy Wrote: Brian- the FPVCycle Power Pick 4” is a 154mm pick frame and would definitely fit the 3” prop guards with a little bit of room to spare. It’s definitely bigger than your usual whoop, but it’s reasonably light and strong- I haven’t managed to even break an arm yet. It’s actually the most stable, gentle quad in my fleet (when I run it on 3s instead of 4s) so it’s usually my first flight of the night to ease me into flying.

https://intofpv.com/t-fpvcycle-powerpick-4%E2%80%9D

I just sent my old set of the 5” StanFPV ducts to iFly. They didn’t create enough additional thrust to make up for the additional weight even with the recommended props, and I couldn’t stand the sound of a shopvac flying through the air.
(Edit- I should note that I didn’t actually do any thrust testing, my basis for this statement is that it took significantly more throttle to hover with them than without.)

I usually prefer open prop, but, for some of these micros I’m learning to appreciate prop guards if they’re strong enough to handle multiple high speed hits. Seems like most aren’t.
The guard on this LDARC frame is showing promise though, we’ll see how it holds up when I properly send it this evening.

Hugnosed- was it a common thing for older micro brushless motors to be taller than their stated size? I’ve got a few different sets that are definitely taller than stated, like 1104’s that are more like 1106’s, etc.

I'm not real fond of ductless quads . . . actually kinda surprised they can even fly without the ducts . . . 8^}

When I laid it out, I figured I'd need 142 - 145mm to fit "ducts" for 3" props and keep about the same spacing between them up front for the camera as the "regular" Whoops. SpeedRacer's Twig XL is suppose to be @ 140mm & I'd need the true X version to keep the spread, but really don't like the big open holes/hooks the bracing makes. Thought there was one Tomoquad frame that might work, and also kinda remember a LEDroneClub Pickle frame that used 4" props that might work too. I tried the 3" HGLRC ducts on a Primo 3" frame, but wouldn't work, so I threw on a set of their 2 1/2" on the Primo, and it was a fun flyer, but already was losing that Whoopish feeling at it's frame size, which was a little bigger, but same 2 1/2" props as my 95 Whoops, so the spread does matter with the handling too.

I wasn't all that thrilled with the Stan setup on the Dolphin. It was OK, & really flew decent and still with plenty of punch, pop & more speed than my neighborhood course can really use. It definitely didn't feel like flying a Whoop zipping around, and Sinny Matic flying just ain't my style . . . Nick & Albert did reviews on the Dolphin in it's original SabreToothPick configuration and it seemed really fast. Cranks along way too fast for my neighborhood even with the HGLRC ducts on it, and runs outta room really quick. Gets really good flight times too.

Those HGLRC 1103/8000s look like they'll do good on the 95. I really didn't see much difference at all with that & the GEP1202/8000s as to how it flies or how long it stays in the air. I don't expect to see much difference on the 85 with the new HGLRC 1103/10s, my old Skystars 1103/11s & GEP 1202/10s. I also have a set of Gool 1104/8000s from an old G90 Pro that will run 3S I want to try on another 85, probably Spring time for that.

I like to keep moving, but I don't fly full throttle the whole flight, mostly mid to mid-high, and I've found the lower/wider motors seem to suit my flying in that range the best. I'm not all that electronic, but read the lower/wider are better and smoother in that range, where the taller/thinner motors are more for mid-high to full bore flying . . . more racing type motors. From the 802s to the 1402s, mine are all also very efficient on the setups I have them on, and those 1103/1202 motors seem to fit the 85s through the 140-150 size frames very well.

There was snow in Columbus at the game this afternoon, about 3 hrs SW of us, so no outside air today, or probably for a while . . . if you get the chance, post how your upside down quad likes to fly . . . I know Emax has had that Tiny 75 upside down Whoop for a while, but I'm still not real thrilled with a quad that seems like it's just looking for trouble . . . good luck with it, it may be a mutant, but it's still a Whoop !! 8^}