I have decided to retire my Pirat Lil Matey to the future project frame bin.  

https://intofpv.com/t-pirat-lil-matey-3-...=lil+matey

The weak spot in these frames is the front arms at the bolt hole closest to the motors.  There is just not much material and they snap fairly easy.  I have previously broken 3 arms and I broke 2 more last session so decided I was going to try another frame.  Its a shame really because I really enjoyed the pep it had with the BH 1504.5 motors.  Well, the plan was to wait for a Grinderino to come in stock somewhere, but I swapped my 5" into an Apex O3 and was absolutely blown away how smooth it flew compared to my Source One!  I did not expect such a huge difference.  Soo, I picked up an Apex Micro 4 and have started the swap.  I have not decided if I will run 3.5" props or 4" props just yet.  I have both to try though.  The idea is to re-use as much as I have on hand as possible. So I have 2 motor choices. 



Brother Hobby 1504.5 3950kv
or
RCinpower 1804 3450kv

The Apex frame on top of the Lil Matey.  Its not that much bigger actually.  



VTX will be walksnail V2.  I was going to use the camera from the 1s system but the cable is not long enough so will be using the full size camera.




First challenge, My FC is the Mamba MK4 basic AIO.  So its a whoop style board.  The Pirate had holes to mount it 45 degrees, the Apex only has 20x20 so I had to print an adapter.  



I coated this FC in worryfreeFPV.  I am sure it works well but man what a mess this is if you need to re-solder.  Took me an hour at least removing silicone and cleaning up the pads for new connections.  Dont think I will be using this stuff again.  Wiring the motors is going to be a pain on this whoop style board.  I will probably eventually get a 20x20 stack but will go with this for now.  

i tuned a buddies apex 4inch yesterday a bit, he use 1507 4200kv on 4s 850mah.
his quad is about 220g without battery. i believe about 310 uaw.

he tried the gf4023x3, they are a bit to flexible and skinny for that uaw.
i suggested the gf4032x3, which has wider blades matching the weight - but sadly they are now a bit high pitched for headless bashing on that rotorpitch of 3.2
while the performance is awesome, the rotor suface and even the weight of the rotor seems to match, it does kill batteries.
there arent to many choices for performance quads on 4inch, we might adjust his apex acceleration and power output softwarewise - what isnt a beautifull sulution in my eyes xD

the apex isnt lightweight, i would suggest big motors - but than the rotorchioce limitations comes in...
there arent high pitched or "heavy and stiff" ones for t-mount..
any 4inch with t-mount rotors should be lightweight - the apex doesnt give that.
my suggestion would be to go for m3 shaft motor and the direction of 1804 or even more motor :-) not more than 3600kv on 4s would open about 3 to 4 rotors wich could match: gf4032, gf4052, old but gold hq4043 if its somewhere available, hmm which other

(21-Sep-2023, 10:47 AM)hugnosed_bat Wrote: i tuned a buddies apex 4inch yesterday a bit, he use 1507 4200kv on 4s 850mah.
his quad is about 220g without battery. i believe about 310 uaw.

he tried the gf4023x3, they are a bit to flexible and skinny for that uaw.
i suggested the gf4032x3, which has wider blades matching the weight - but sadly they are now a bit high pitched for headless bashing on that rotorpitch of 3.2
while the performance is awesome, the rotor suface and even the weight of the rotor seems to match, it does kill batteries.
there arent to many choices for performance quads on 4inch, we might adjust his apex acceleration and power output softwarewise - what isnt a beautifull sulution in my eyes xD

the apex isnt lightweight, i would suggest big motors - but than the rotorchioce limitations comes in...
there arent high pitched or "heavy and stiff" ones for t-mount..
any 4inch with t-mount rotors should be lightweight - the apex doesnt give that.
my suggestion would be to go for m3 shaft motor and the direction of 1804 or even more motor :-) not more than 3600kv on 4s would open about 3 to 4 rotors wich could match: gf4032, gf4052, old but gold hq4043 if its somewhere available, hmm which other

Yeah, props where hard to pic out. I started with a few sets of the 4023’s. I also have some 3.5”. Scimitar which I believe are 2.8 pitch and some Gemfan 3525’s to try.

aah there are some ("scimitar"?) emax 4inch blades which are pretty stiff 4024 and as 4028, we might need to try thr 24 pitch on his quad :-)

(21-Sep-2023, 01:14 PM)hugnosed_bat Wrote: aah there are some ("scimitar"?) emax 4inch blades which are pretty stiff 4024 and as 4028, we might need to try thr 24 pitch on his quad :-)

I run those props on 1408 motors and flies nicely, but they are M5 not t-mount.

yess, im looking for a stiff low pirched blade for m5 shaft

I have a 4” Micro Apex with 1804 XNova 3500kv or 3100k I’d have to look but they are powerful,light and a bit power hungry but with throttle control I can still get long flight times.
 I have tried numerous different batteries and Tatuu 4S 850 95c xt30 still are the best I have found.
 
 
  Good durability,doesn’t feel heavy, but heavy enough for catapult effect.

  I have tried several props and I always go back to gf hurricane 4023.
  
 I think if I had to choose a limited number of frames I would definitely keep all my Apex frames.
  They do fly great and can take a beating.

I have same BH 1504.5 and running 4023*3.
Awesome 4" toothpick build.

My 1804 4" build is very skinny Pickle frame and only use 4025 props.

Only quad I use 4032 is AxisFlying2204.5 3500KV on chunky Carnage frame. Doesnt even break sweat. Its hovering at like 13-16%.. lol

4032 is excellent prop.
But advise at least 1507/2005 motor size.

These pyrodrone racewire LED's are my new thing.  Love these things.  But got everything all wired up except the GPS. Still undecided if I want to put the GPS on or not.  I am not super happy with the whole AIO and printed mount.  Someday I will probably get a 20x20 stack but funky motor wiring aside it all works. 



Came in a little chuncky at 290 AUW but surpriginly.. It flys sooo smooth.  It has that floaty throwy feeling my 5" has that I ahve been chasing to get on my 3.5"  I have a little BF tuning to iron out.  But its very smooth.  I get a little prop wash on quick turns but I just used the same tune I had on the FC when it was installed in the Lilmatey.  So far super impressed using the 4023 props.  Best of all is its so quiet!  I am getting about 3 minutes 30 seconds flight time.  

Here is the maiden flight. Not bad for no tuning.

https://youtu.be/vF8esFXe8TQ?si=52OQHRFsIUdyK4Ha

Well, the 1804 motors were a little lacking in power, probably due to the 290g AUW.  But I wanted to run a full size WS VTX and the frame is a bit chunky to begin with. It worked great as a cruiser and was getting almost 5 minutes flight time on 850mah 4s batteries but it doesnt have the punch I like that are in my 3.5" or 5".  4" is evidently an oddball size and I was having a hard time finding a motor I liked that looked durable (really wanted a 5mm shaft vs t-mount), had a 12x12 mounting, but was still light weight.  I am having a little buyers remorse lol but ended up ordering RCinpower 2105 3600kv motors.  They are pretty heavy but spec out nicley and I have had nothing but good experience with RCinpower motor so hopefully they give the results I am looking for lol

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/100500304...pt=glo2nld

I am having some tuning issues.  The AIO FC just does not mount very well.  With adapter its super close to the top plate and I can not for the life of me get it to sit straight.  Its always canted just a hair.  I could probably tweak betaflight more and eventually get it but decided to order a 20x20 stack what the frame is desighned for. I will put the AIO in my 3" racer.  

Initial flights its has gobs of pull and is supper smooth but I am getting some wierd trilling issues 

Seems we've gone and done something very similar. Today I converted my 3" Micro Apex with some 4" replacement arms. The 1407 motors and GF 4032x3 props do a good job and make minimal noise, but I did find that the battery sags into the ground if I hit the throttle. Almost wondering if these motors simply aren't big enough for the props, or maybe the kv is now too high. Also finding that I'm having a heck of a time controlling the altitude.

Oh yeah, side note. Freestyling on the Walksnail nano cam kinda sucks due to a lack of FOV. Will probably trade it for a full one later so I can get that back. Used to use a Caddx Ratel, so now I miss it.

(11-Oct-2023, 06:12 AM)Suros Wrote: Seems we've gone and done something very similar. Today I converted my 3" Micro Apex with some 4" replacement arms. The 1407 motors and GF 4032x3 props do a good job and make minimal noise, but I did find that the battery sags into the ground if I hit the throttle. Almost wondering if these motors simply aren't big enough for the props, or maybe the kv is now too high. Also finding that I'm having a heck of a time controlling the altitude.

Oh yeah, side note. Freestyling on the Walksnail nano cam kinda sucks due to a lack of FOV. Will probably trade it for a full one later so I can get that back. Used to use a Caddx Ratel, so now I miss it.

LOL, I was thinking about getting some 3" arms so I can move if I want on a whim.

Side note, I ran BH 1504.5 2950kv on my 3.5" and it was perfect for me. Love those motors, I need to do another build just around them.

Wish I took more pictures but was deep in the building moment.  But I am way happier with how the 20x20 mounts.  Still need to do some wire management and GPS but all is together and generally setup.  Only issue I had, and is my biggest complaint about this frame and my 5" Apex.  Stack bolts are not accessible without pulling the whole frame apart!  The problem I had is that of all the multitude of bolts that Apex provided only the M2 stack screws where long enough.  The frame is really designed to use M3 stack screws and while the M2's do work there is not much meat in the bolt hole to hold the screw in place.  That and the provided M2 screws are tapered so the taper partially goes through the top of the hole making it impossible to tighten the "Golden Bollt".  I was able to dig through my bolt bin and found my last 4 M2 aluminum washers.  If I centered them perfect And cinched down the bolt it molded the washer to the tapered hole so I could make it all work.  Had to get the washers shaped, stack screws in place loose, assemble the stack and tighten it down, the use tweezers to hold the stop stack screw bolt and tighten it down so the screws stayed straight.  Kind of a pain.  I will probably order M3 bolts that are long enough so if I take things apart in the future I can replace them.  They have to be tapered so they are flush since the arms go right over the top so i could not use any of the multitude of M3 screws I have laying around.