It looks like fixed penalities will be coming to the UK whereby a police officer will be able to issue an on-the-spot fine to anyone who is found to be breaking any drone rules or regulations. This includes non-registration, being caught flying without a spotter, flying BVLOS etc. even if you're only flying a 25g tiny whoop. The world has gone mad. Sean covers these new police powers in his video linked to below...

Damn.
Just think about how much safer the world is about to become by smacking down hobby drones. 
We're so fortunate to have our hobby regulated like this.

Sure wouldn't want something that hits like a wad of paper to get too crazy! I mean seriously, I would challenge somebody to take my Mobula 7 and do their absolute best to harm me with it.

No kidding.
I’m concerned about the frisbee golfers at my local parks. Those death discs get whipped around at neck height with absolutely no control once they leave the golfer’s hand. This recklessness MUST be stopped !

Bureaucracy at work again, making criminals out of the harmless.

Still, I expect this is one of those things that would be very rarely enforced. The UK police are the preserve of politicians, airports and Just stop oil cretins. So as long as you're not flying near any of those, you're good!

So, we'll add that to the following things that were announced with suitable flourish that would be stamped on then:-

1. Parking inside school markings (EVERY day my way) (and close to traffic islands severing bus routes and blocking traffic)
2. Atrocious lane discipline on Motorways and Dual Carriageways (M23 "Smart" motorway, often with single cars in Lane 3 of 4 doing 50-60, nothing at all on inside two lanes or in front for a mile plus)
3. Illegal Numberplates (roughly a quarter of cars of owners in my road alone, for a start)
4. Cyclists ignoring traffic lights and light controlled pedestrian crossings (its odd to see one stop!)
5. Blatant planning permission evasion (and nothing EVER done even if the law is informed)
6. Damaging/destroying listed Buildings and Trees ("they" just removed 130 plus trees locally that had a preservation order on them, nothing will happen)
7. Travellers allowed to take land where ever they want and leave huge bills for rubbish removal, never EVER addressed.
8. Dog Owners allowing fouling everywhere, inc outside schools
9. Noise and Light pollution. House next door to me has more than 10 mains powered bright garden lights burning 24/7, three other nearest houses leave kitchen and stairs lights on 24/7
10. (yes it had to be listed!)   Hand Held mobile use by drivers.  (also eating and drinking while on the move)

These are ALL things we were suddenly told by "authority" that would be subject to better control, and were not....................

You missed one...

Private electric scooters (none of which are insured) zipping up and down the roads and pavements almost mowing some people down without any of the authorities batting an eyelid. There are a shed load of them round where I live and it seems to be getting worse as time goes on. Getting caught is supposed to incur a fixed penalty notice fine of £300 and 6 points on your driving license, but all of the people riding them don't seem to care one iota. If the authorities aren't even handing out FPN's to those scooter riders then I think we are probably safe even without a spotter as long as we're not doing something really stupid. I would be pissed if I got handed an FPN for flying one of my quads in what I consider to be a safe responsible manner when all the people riding around on electric scooters are getting off scot-free.

Given the fact the police can't even solve most of the criminal cases, do you think they are going to go out of their way to give a FPN to anyone. Also the second someone takes them to court and wins, it will write off this stupid set of laws.

The solution is simply to fly places where the police don't go or fear to tread. Over my way there are 3 or 4 areas of the city where you never see police and 100% never single manned in vehicles. I asked a guy I know who works for them and he said two coppers were driving through one of the areas a few years back in a marked car, late at night when someone shot out the back windscreen with a shotgun. After that they don't go into that area unless mob handed and the lack of police in general means they rarely go in that area full stop. Funny thing is I used to live in that area and I wouldn't say it's a bad place to walk through at night, at least i've never had an issue.

Generally if the place you fly is a couple of miles off the beaten track, or requires them to walk a long way, they aren't going to bother unless you decided to fly over a military base or airport. If you are just ripping packs harmlessly and bothering no one, then you will probably never see them.

This is more aimed at those DJI idiots that keep flying in dumb places.

But if anyone does get one and wasn't in the wrong, take them to court, make it as public as possible, use the list of things they don't enforce from Bad Raven and Snow's list, ask why you get an FPN but they don't enforce the law against other people breaking it, hell if you could and wanted to, throw the race or gender card in for good measure, like a primed hand grenade. It seems if you mention race or anything gender related, cases get dropped rather than antagonise a chunk of society. Especially at a time when less than 50% of the population trust the police. Basically if they want to take the piss, then you should as well.

(17-Jun-2023, 11:19 PM)Pathfinder075 Wrote: Given the fact the police can't even solve most of the criminal cases, do you think they are going to go out of their way to give a FPN to anyone.  Also the second someone takes them to court and wins, it will write off this stupid set of laws.

        Interesting. What if someone takes them to court and LOSES  

The solution is simply to fly places where the police don't go or fear to tread.  Over my way there are 3 or 4 areas of the city where you never see police and 100% never single manned in vehicles.  I asked a guy I know who works for them and he said two coppers were driving through one of the areas a few years back in a marked car, late at night when someone shot out the back windscreen with a shotgun. After that they don't go into that area unless mob handed and the lack of police in general means they rarely go in that area full stop.  Funny thing is I used to live in that area and I wouldn't say it's a bad place to walk through at night, at least i've never had an issue.

       That is what I have been saying all along. Don't fly in populated areas, 
       stay away from people, and be stealthy - Don't fly a Buzz Saw in the sky.


Generally if the place you fly is a couple of miles off the beaten track, or requires them to walk a long way, they aren't going to bother unless you decided to fly over a military base or airport.  If you are just ripping packs harmlessly and bothering no one, then you will probably never see them.


This is more aimed at those DJI idiots that keep flying in dumb places.

        
        Very likely. Here is the thing; Drones are Drones. Consider that the FPV hobby
        is but a very tiny drop in the bucket compared to the total number of drones
        owned and FPV is even smaller. Also consider, that all of the drone pilots are
        a very tiny percentage of the total (voting?) population. Consequently, any
        and all drones both now and what may come in the future including how they
        might be used will be a driving concern.
      

But if anyone does get one and wasn't in the wrong, take them to court, make it as public as possible, use the list of things they don't enforce from Bad Raven and Snow's list, ask why you get an FPN but they don't enforce the law against other people breaking it, hell if you could and wanted to, throw the race or gender card in for good measure, like a primed hand grenade.  It seems if you mention race or anything gender related, cases get dropped rather than antagonise a chunk of society.  Especially at a time when less than 50% of the population trust the police.  Basically if they want to take the piss, then you should as well.


      Yes, take them to court and see how that goes. I would advise getting an
      attorney ($$$$$$) if you go that route. From my experience, you don't fare
      well in court without one . Yes, make it public and see how that goes; see how
      much the larger general public really cares. In fact, they might think it is good
      that drone enforcement has finally started.  

      Interestingly, one time my wife got a speeding ticket traveling at the same speed
      as all the other cars. When she asked why, the officer simply replied that she was
      the one that he picked. You can't catch everyone, but you can catch some. Just
      because the police might not enforce other laws doesn't mean they can't, or
      even shouldn't, enforce the one that you broke. See how that holds up in court. 

      I am just saying, be careful when going to court as things don't always turn out
      the way that we think they should. Also, individual cases in court are likely not
      to have the desired effect regarding the law itself. 

Hi Pathfinder,

Yes, it is going to get interesting. Wonder how the FPV hobbyist in the USA would react if
they did something like that over here. Instant fines at the discretion of the police officer.

This Remote ID thing, UAS (drone) control, and airspace regulation is happening all over 
the world in the "first world" countries. I wonder how that will play out. It will likely NOT
be what the recreational FPV hobbyists want. 

I agree that the best tactic whether flying legal or not is to stay under the radar and stealthy. 
Stay away from people, fly drones that are small and less noisy, and be careful posting videos 
(by the way, I like your quarry flights).

Later, My Friend, iFly 

(17-Jun-2023, 07:51 PM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: You missed one...

Private electric scooters (none of which are insured) zipping up and down the roads and pavements almost mowing some people down without any of the authorities batting an eyelid. There are a shed load of them round where I live and it seems to be getting worse as time goes on. Getting caught is supposed to incur a fixed penalty notice fine of £300 and 6 points on your driving license, but all of the people riding them don't seem to care one iota. If the authorities aren't even handing out FPN's to those scooter riders then I think we are probably safe even without a spotter as long as we're not doing something really stupid. I would be pissed if I got handed an FPN for flying one of my quads in what I consider to be a safe responsible manner when all the people riding around on electric scooters are getting off scot-free.

I "missed" loads, I had just lost the will to live..................  

Recently was in Italy, Germany, France and Switzerland. Common there, inc ungainly ugly piles laying around like "Boris Bikes". Not at all unusual to see "Mum" taking little one to pre-school or school on one.

Scooter story.  Family up my sloping 90 degree bend road bought one for teenage (just) daughter. Dad tried it out, lost control promptly, came off at speed and broke his ankle, foot flopping at 90 degrees to normal, just outside my house, laying immobile in middle of road near bend and obscuring parked cars (with empty drives they could be on) including their own three cars.

They didn't even have the common sense to move one of their cars to block the bend.

Another one for the list (that they do). Parking with wheels on the pavement obstructing same. Council employs a motor scooter warden to fine idiots like that, but he's one guy in a sea of offenders.......  back to little or no chance it'll be enforced............


I wandered out, placed three road cones a distance round him, and wandered back indoors.  

(17-Jun-2023, 07:51 PM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: You missed one...

Private electric scooters (none of which are insured) zipping up and down the roads and pavements almost mowing some people down without any of the authorities batting an eyelid. There are a shed load of them round where I live and it seems to be getting worse as time goes on. Getting caught is supposed to incur a fixed penalty notice fine of £300 and 6 points on your driving license, but all of the people riding them don't seem to care one iota. If the authorities aren't even handing out FPN's to those scooter riders then I think we are probably safe even without a spotter as long as we're not doing something really stupid. I would be pissed if I got handed an FPN for flying one of my quads in what I consider to be a safe responsible manner when all the people riding around on electric scooters are getting off scot-free.

Careful. It is this exact ranting over other people doing stuff that eventually affected this hobby. Complaining about other people doing stuff that you don’t agree with is the exact thing you are complaining about, yet still doing. 

In complaining about Karen, let us not become her.

(25-Jun-2023, 03:15 PM)Pennywise Wrote: Careful. It is this exact ranting over other people doing stuff that eventually affected this hobby. Complaining about other people doing stuff that you don’t agree with is the exact thing you are complaining about, yet still doing. 

In complaining about Karen, let us not become her.

The point of my post was really to highlight that the UK government are implementing FPN's for quad flying activities yet they don't (or can't) even enforce other activities where people are blatantly breaking the law.

I'm not a Karen and don't really care too much for electric scooters. I will leave them be as long as I'm also able to get away with breaking some of the rules when flying my quad while still doing so in what I consider to be a safe and responsible manner. If however we start seeing people getting FPNs for flying their drones while scooter riders are driving recklessly around other pedestrians on the pavements and getting off scott free then we should speak up about that. The same goes for all the points that BadRaven made in post #6.

(17-Jun-2023, 05:19 PM)Bad Raven Wrote: So, we'll add that to the following things that were announced with suitable flourish that would be stamped on then:-

1. Parking inside school markings (EVERY day my way) (and close to traffic islands severing bus routes and blocking traffic)

Might be dealt with by AI camera systems.

2. Atrocious lane discipline on Motorways and Dual Carriageways (M23 "Smart" motorway, often with single cars in Lane 3 of 4 doing 50-60, nothing at all on inside two lanes or in front for a mile plus)

Has lane discipline deteriorated that much around Crawley?  I mean it was bad when i lived down that way many years back, but not as bad as London.

3. Illegal Numberplates (roughly a quarter of cars of owners in my road alone, for a start)

Not enough police to deal with this, but that AI camera system apparently flags illegal number plates, so maybe it will go away.

4. Cyclists ignoring traffic lights and light controlled pedestrian crossings (its odd to see one stop!)

Cyclists should have to display a number plate, pay road tax and take a test.  When i was at school, back in the 80's, I had to take a test to rid a bicycle (run by some examiner guy from DoT as I remember).

5. Blatant planning permission evasion (and nothing EVER done even if the law is informed)

It's down to local planning to deal with it.  Has nothing to do with the mainstream justice system, AFAIK.  It's a civil matter.

6. Damaging/destroying listed Buildings and Trees ("they" just removed 130 plus trees locally that had a preservation order on them, nothing will happen)

Trees can be removed if deemed dangerous or in breach of other tree related legislation (height from road being one of the main ones).  You can't just remove for no reason though.  But if a TPO'd tree gets honey fungus (or another bad pathogen), it has to come down.  Generally most trees are dangerous within a year of detection and if you have fruiting bodies on the ground, it has to come down straight away (fruiting bodies on the ground is end stage tree death when related Armillaria mellea).  Other problems you might encounter down south include the Oak Processionary Moth, which while in the caterpillar stage has very toxic hairs on it, but they tend to spray the trees with insecticides and vacuum them off.  Current pathogens that generally result in dropping TPO'd trees, a late, are mainly Honey Fungus, Ash Dieback, Dutch Elm disease and Larch Tree disease (affects other tree species).  Thankfully so far Xylella hasn't made it across the channel.  The cleanup protocol for Xylella is to remove and destroy everything that can be infected by it within a 2 mile radius.  It kills many different species of plants, shrubs and trees.

7. Travellers allowed to take land where ever they want and leave huge bills for rubbish removal, never EVER addressed.
8. Dog Owners allowing fouling everywhere, inc outside schools

Neither of these will ever be addressed.  Number 7, because like most minorities they simply claim discrimination and it all magically goes away.  Number 8 because how many police do you ever see patrolling the streets let alone local parks.

9. Noise and Light pollution. House next door to me has more than 10 mains powered bright garden lights burning 24/7, three other nearest houses leave kitchen and stairs lights on 24/7

Complain to council.  It's a civil matter for the most part.  It can be a criminal matter if escalated that far, but that is only for sound pollution AFAIK.

10. (yes it had to be listed!)   Hand Held mobile use by drivers.  (also eating and drinking while on the move)

Mobile phone use by drivers is one that is actually being dealt with.  There was a story the other day about some police force using an AI camera system to watch cars and flag anomalies.  One of the anomalies was drivers on phones.  Apparently in one day they got about 60 of them and it said something about each of them been sent a courts summon.  It also said many police forces were now buying those systems.

These are ALL things we were suddenly told by "authority" that would be subject to better control, and were not....................

These laws are not for the publics' safety, I believe, they are for the lobbyists' buyers. Amazon has been filing paperwork for drones almost daily since this started. They also don't seem to be the only one. These laws are to make it easier for corporations to keep us out of THEIR skies.

Consider that there might just be a bigger picture than the interests of large corporations.

I am pretty sure that most folks DO NOT realize that the FAA is simply the "front" agency for a 
large collective effort to control ALL drone traffic in the USA since they already have regulatory
authority for ALL airspace. Although the UK is different, wonder what the real driving forces are.

Consider the following and look closely at paragraph # 4

https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technolo...age-drones