(18-Aug-2020, 05:14 PM)unseen Wrote: The same rules apply in Europe. If you want more than 25dBm, you need a HAM license.

A HAM license doesn't cover you for radio transmissions to/from model aircraft in the UK. So even if you have a HAM license it's irrelevant for flying model aircraft with and it gives you nothing extra over someone without a HAM license.

I recently read something which stated that it's illegal in the UK to transmit anything from an airborne craft, even as a amateur radio operator. It said you can transmit TO an airborne craft from a radio transmitter, but just not BACK from it. It's apparently something to do with the RF footprint of an airborne object. So if that is true then it effectively makes all FPV by a hobbyist illegal in the UK whether you have a spotter or not, because it means no video transmission is allowed from a quad (or telemetry data back from the receiver for that matter). I need to look into this more and try to find an authoritative source for the information.

Off-the-shelf consumer drones like DJI would be exempt because the radio transmission equipment in them will be CE certified. Home built drones and quads will not.

(18-Aug-2020, 05:14 PM)unseen Wrote: But anyway, the NO FPV rule means that everyone who registers and still flies FPV is just doing themselves and the rest of the hobby a disservice by legitimising the requirement to register. It seems somewhat counterproductive to 'register because the law says you must' and then continue to break the law by flying FPV as iFly4Rotors rightly points out.

Anyone who registers also needs to understand that in doing so they are recognising, endorsing and supporting the whole registration process and any rules/regulations that go along with it, which means the authorities then believe their system and it's regulations is working and that it's worthwhile continuing with. It's a bit like feeding the trolls. I can guarantee that most people who have registered themselves are flying illegally in one form or another, and if the information in the previous paragraph turns out to be true then all FPV hobbyists in the UK are breaking the law every time they go out to fly whether they are registered or not.

I think here in the U.S. you just need to register your person, not your individual quads.  Each quad is supposed to have a label with your registration number - and it can't be in the battery compartment so it burns up in a crash LOL.

But they never specified a font size lawls.  

And on the topic of labels, the FCC technically requires you to transmit your call sign every certain interval.  So you're supposed to include your call sign in the OSD to meet this stipulation.  Depending on the frequency of your radio controller, it too could be falling under FCC jurisdiction.  In that case, you're supposed to put your call sign on the radio itself for radio controlled devices.

FPV regulations ... the gift that keeps on giving.  

(18-Aug-2020, 07:35 PM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: I recently read something which stated that it's illegal in the UK to transmit anything from an airborne craft as a amateur radio operator. It said you can transmit TO an airborne craft from a radio transmitter, but just not BACK from it. It's apparently something to do with the RF footprint of an airborne object. So if that is true then it effectively makes all FPV by a hobbyist illegal in the UK whether you have a spotter or not, because it means no video transmission is allowed from a quad (or telemetry data back from the receiver for that matter). I need to look into this more and try to find an authoritative source for the information.

As far as I can tell from the Ofcom band plan, our video is license exempt and covered by:

Quote:IR2030/27/3
2010/0168/UK Oct 2010
Wireless Video Cameras - Non Broadcasting
Apparatus designed or adapted for Television.
Where required, associated audio may also be used within the specified frequency band. Equipment may be used airborne.
5725 –5875 MHz
25 mW e.i.r.p

But also maybe the catch-all of Non-Specific Short Range Devices? Similar for 2.4Ghz and a bunch of stuff just under 900Mhz. There's a big crappy document called IR2030 that contains a bunch of stuff. Either way, radio may be the one thing we're doing legally.

IR2030 - Some light bedtime reading

As long as we keep the video under 25mW. Haha! I mean ... yes officer.

In other news: next time I consider getting my ham license I'm going to load up that PDF again and save myself some time, effort and money. Sod that for a laugh.

(18-Aug-2020, 08:44 PM)Banelle Wrote: As far as I can tell from the Ofcom band plan, our video is license exempt and covered by:

Quote:IR2030/27/3
2010/0168/UK Oct 2010
Wireless Video Cameras - Non Broadcasting
Apparatus designed or adapted for Television.
Where required, associated audio may also be used within the specified frequency band. Equipment may be used airborne.
5725 –5875 MHz
25 mW e.i.r.p

It looks like you bothered to dig a bit deeper than me. I found the following which due to the date against the article I wasn't sure was relevant any more. I guess this just means that even with a HAM license, FPV pilots are still restricted to 25mW in the UK (maybe the same applies to the rest of Europe as well).

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/spectrum/radio-...led-models

Quote:Can I use an Amateur Radio licence for model control including airborne use?

No. Amateur Radio is a service intended to allow hobbyists and enthusiasts to experiment with radio. As licensed Radio Amateurs may operate transmitters at relatively high power levels in various frequency bands, the licence is available only to those who have demonstrated the necessary competence by studying for and passing a special examination.

We receive enquiries from those (principally non-amateurs) who wish to fly radio-controlled aircraft, such as quad-copters, fitted with video cameras (used to view the ground from the aircraft or to provide First Person View (FPV) to aid the control of the aircraft.).

There is a belief that the use of higher power equipment can be authorised by applying for an Amateur Radio licence. This is wrong. Amateur Radio licence expressly prohibits use in any aircraft or airborne vehicle. This restriction is not relaxed for radio-controlled models, airplanes and balloons.

I fly all my quads in pit mode anyway, just to err on the side of caution  

(18-Aug-2020, 11:46 PM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: It looks like you bothered to dig a bit deeper than me. I found the following which due to the date against the article I wasn't sure was relevant any more. I guess this just means that even with a HAM license, FPV pilots are still restricted to 25mW in the UK (maybe the same applies to the rest of Europe as well).

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/spectrum/radio-...led-models


I fly all my quads in pit mode anyway, just to err on the side of caution  

How do you fly long range in "Pit" mode     H*ll, Pit mode won't even get me around the soccer field 

Quote:Are you FPV drones registered or not?

(19-Aug-2020, 02:44 AM)iFly4rotors Wrote: How do you fly long range in "Pit" mode     H*ll, Pit mode won't even get me around the soccer field 

That’s why I buy only tinywhoops and got a very small backyard 

(24-Aug-2020, 12:29 AM)andreab Wrote: That’s why I buy only tinywhoops and got a very small backyard 

Yeah, that's what I thought, too. I got a tiny whoop "combo" (Eachine E013 complete with toy transmitter and goggles - $75 WOW) 

So, I played around with tiny "whoop" drones {which I still fly indoors}... Yeah, that lasted about 6 months or so, then I bought my first brushless, 2.5 inch open prop, 2s quad....and then, another 2.5 inch. These guys are so much fun that I still fly them. The GEPRC Phantom is still my favorite. It is just plain fun to fly and has plenty of range for its size. At this point, my first build, Phantom-X, has the longest fly time at over 17 minutes. I have just finished a 4 inch Long Range build and I am now working on a 5 inch build and planning a 7 inch build. 

Can you say ..."A D D I C T I V E"...  

I figure if someone asks I can state that my drone is registered and I have a Ham radio license. Just maybe they'll leave me alone then.  Anyway, I think we should play by the rules as much as possible otherwise we risk getting regulated out-of-existence.

Registering at the FAA is pretty easy and getting a Ham Technician Radio License is much easier than learning how to fly a drone.

The FAA regulates the air space & if you fly anything over 250 grams in it you risk being fined if not registered. You only need 1 number ($5) for all the drones you fly. The FCC regulates air waves and unless your equipment is Part 15 exempt you need a license. This includes just about all FPV gear including tiny whoops.

Yeah, the FCC might not ever notice your transmission but a local Ham Radio Club could, and just for fun, they might make it a mission to track you down. Anyway, if you have a Ham Radio License yes you do need to cite your call sign per regulation. All you need to do is stick into the OSD. Just so you know most radio controllers at 2.4Ghz are part 15 exempt so no license or call sign needed here.

What can I say, when I kid I probably would have ignore all this crap too, but now that I'm older I am more responsible. I wish I would have learned this earlier in life but it's never to late... All the crazy stuff I did I can hardly believe I'm still here, let alone flying drones.

Just a note: It would be nice if Betaflight had (at least one) open text field where you could put anything you want that could be displayed in the OSD. But, Nooooo 

(29-Aug-2020, 01:41 PM)iFly4rotors Wrote: Just a note: It would be nice if Betaflight had (at least one) open text field where you could put anything you want that could be displayed in the OSD. But, Nooooo 

It does. Craft Name and/or Pilot Name.

(29-Aug-2020, 01:43 PM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: It does. Craft Name and/or Pilot Name.

Check this and see if I am correct.

Although 32 characters can be typed into the Craft Name field on the Configuration tab, only the first 16 characters are significant and all others are truncated. I guess the quad name and call letters might fit. 

Ah yes, the "Display Name" {affectionately known as "Joe Pilot"};     

@rdsi55 - It's all well and good being registered and having a HAM license, but you need to remember that as soon as you put on your goggles and you don't have a spotter with you then you're breaking the law anyway. And if you do have a spotter with you, then as soon as you fly over ~150 metres with a mini quad then you're still breaking the law (or even less distance for a micro that is even harder to see). And of course, no-one ever flies behind trees or a building do they, because doing that also breaks the BVLOS rules. Let's be frank, no one flies FPV within BVLOS rules whether they have a spotter with them or not. 

Also, in Europe you can't use a VTX that goes above 25mW even if you have a HAM license. That is probably purposely imposed so you can't possibly fly out beyond visual line of sight if you want to fly legally. How many European pilots do you think are only using 25mW of power?

So I can pretty much guarantee that every FPV quad pilot out there is breaking the law every time they go out to fly in one respect or another.

As I mentioned before, if you do register and have all the required licenses then you need to understand that by doing so you have acknowledged and signed up to the fact that you know and understand all the rules. There is then no option for trying to pleading any type of ignorance (regardless of whether doing that would work or not) because you've already demonstrated you understand all the rules/laws by the fact that you registered and/or took a competency test and/or have a license.

The bottom line is that even if you don't fly legally, it's still the pilot's responsibility to make sure they at least fly safely for the sake and reputation of the hobby.

(29-Aug-2020, 12:28 AM)rdsi55 Wrote: I figure if someone asks I can state that my drone is registered and I have a Ham radio license. Just maybe they'll leave me alone then.  Anyway, I think we should play by the rules as much as possible otherwise we risk getting regulated out-of-existence.

Registering at the FAA is pretty easy and getting a Ham Technician Radio License is much easier than learning how to fly a drone.

The FAA regulates the air space & if you fly anything over 250 grams in it you risk being fined if not registered. You only need 1 number ($5) for all the drones you fly. The FCC regulates air waves and unless your equipment is Part 15 exempt you need a license. This includes just about all FPV gear including tiny whoops.

Yeah, the FCC might not ever notice your transmission but a local Ham Radio Club could, and just for fun, they might make it a mission to track you down. Anyway, if you have a Ham Radio License yes you do need to cite your call sign per regulation. All you need to do is stick into the OSD. Just so you know most radio controllers at 2.4Ghz are part 15 exempt so no license or call sign needed here.

What can I say, when I kid I probably would have ignore all this crap too, but now that I'm older I am more responsible. I wish I would have learned this earlier in life but it's never to late... All the crazy stuff I did I can hardly believe I'm still here, let alone flying drones.

@rdi55, Just curious...what type of quad are you flying??  Do you go out to an isolated area {where no one is around} or do you fly in populated areas {maybe in city parks}. How high and how fast do you fly? Do you have a spotter??  Can your spotter actually track the quad 

@Snow, my wife says she can't hardly see, much less keep an eye on and track, my 2.5 and 3 inch quads once launched. I guess at about 50m {and beyond} they are essentially invisible especially if you fly very fast. Yeah, you can't hear them either. LOS is virtually a joke with these little guys.