Thanks guys.  I'm just really hoping this is enough to push that person over the edge into putting his or her design out there.  

I've looked at *a lot* of frame designs since I started designing my own.  Both to gauge competitor quality and pricing but just as much to spark some ideas.  Man, they are all the same.  For the advances we've seen in FPV, it seems to me the frame has seen the least development.  Sure, we went from the common H configuration popularized by the Blackout Mini-H to more of a stretch X immortalized by frames like the Apex.  But at the end of the day ... 4 arms, bus fuselage, bottom and top plate.  Ok, so we made the carbon thicker and angled the arms yay for us lol.  It's the same friggin design.

Since selling my own frames, I've also come to appreciate the cost and time involved.  I can *almost* understand why the larger, more established companies just continue to crank out the same frame over and over just branded by the latest fad youtuber.  Anyone that's played EA sports games knows this modus operandi all too well (Madden, FIFA, etc).

So I've come to realize that true frame innovation is not going to come from the big guys.  But unlike other aspects of FPV, frame design does not require sums of money for PCB prototyping or forging motor stators ... it simply requires a free 3D program and a mind that can see things most others cannot.  So despite being the least developed aspect of FPV in my opinion, it ironically has the least barriers to entry. And so I'm convinced that true frame innovation will come the random dude(tte) with a handful of scrapped together builds in some random corner of the world messing with a free 3D program during one particularly inconsequential afternoon and starting with a single line.

Drone Frame Design Basics – Part 3:  Testing The Design
 
Up until now, we’ve actually been using a 3D program for 2D design.  You likely have realized by now that the DXF files have information on the X and Y axis (2D) but not the Z axis (3D).  That’s because the Z axis is determined by the thickness of the carbon fiber.  So when handing in your “bad-ass-main-plate.dxf” file to your shop, you also need to tell them what thickness of carbon fiber to use.  But in order to test your design, you need to turn that 2D thing into a 3D object which we can then “assemble” with some pretty impressive levels of accuracy.
 
Behold, the Push/Pull tool!!  Lol
 

 
This tool will allow you to extrude any 2D shape into a 3D object.  As such, it bears spending a little time getting to know this tool.  When you over the object, the face will highlight.
 

 
By clicking on the shape and moving the pointer up away from the shape, you will extrude the shape into a 3D object.
 

 
As with line and curves, you can enter a value for the exact amount of extrusion which will appear in the lower right window.  Now, let’s turn these flat drawings into actual 3D models of the frame.
 
Copy and paste the main plate.  Using the Push/Pull tool, extrude the main plate exactly 4mm by typing 4 then enter.  You should see that value of 4mm in the bottom right window.
 

 
Do the same for the top plate but maybe make that one 2mm.
 

 
Group both since we will be moving them around in 3D space.  Group objects by dragging your mouse over the object (making sure not to include parts of adjacent objects) or triple click on the object, then right click and select Make Group.
 

 
When selected, grouped objects will appear to be in transparent, blue containers.
 

 
Now we are going to need some M2 standoffs.  You can model these by creating a box that is 4mmx4mm.  Draw lines creating 4 equal quadrants (use the smart indicators showing when you are at the midpoint of a line segment).  From the center, draw out a circle to the edge (4mm diameter) and another smaller one with 2mm diameter.  These are all techniques you should be familiar with by now.
 

 
Erase all the lines except for the main donut shape.  Extrude that shape by 20mm to make your 20mm standoff.  Now group the object so we can easily move it around.  Voila!
 

 
From here, I’ll be moving these objects around as if I were in some virtual drone building virtual reality simulator.  Cos I kinda am.  Be sure to use the Move pointer efficiently by anchoring to corners or edges.  In this case, I am anchoring to the bottom edge of the standoff …
 

 
… so that I can more precisely place it where I want it to go.  In this case, the front left standoff hole of the main plate.
 

 
You want this to be precise as possible though so after the initial placement, zoom in there and make sure it’s as close as possible.  Use both the Pan and Zoom tool to manipulate the 3D view.  In this case, the screw hole will not perfectly align because the holes on the frame were drawn with a 0.1mm buffer while the standoff is exactly 2mm.  The gap is the 0.1mm difference.
 

 
Go ahead and “install” the other 3 standoffs.
 

 
Now take the top plate and move that over the standoffs.  It helps to anchor the Move pointer to a bottom edge of the top plate to more easily “place it” on a top edge of a standoff.
 

 
And there you have it!!  Your own virtual FPV drone frame lol.
 

 
Yes, this is a very rudimentary frame.  Yes, you could have just taken the 2D top plate and moved it over the main plate to check for accuracy of standoff holes.  However, you can’t check to see if a certain camera size will bump into the stack plate with a 2D drawing.  You can’t know how much tolerance you’ve got in the necessarily accurate measurements of cam plate connections.  You can do all these in 3D.
 

 
So there you have it.  Capping off this epic trilogy of drone frame design basics goodness!!  Lol.   And while this is obviously a super basic frame, it really is all you need to get going.
 
Still, this is IntoFPV, damnit, and we don’t leave well enough alone.  So we are leveling up in *PART FOUR** of this epic drone frame design trilogy (yes, that’s a nod to 42 ) with my own selection of “Advanced Design Techniques” … stay tuned lol … 

I added a link to the copy of Sketchup Make 2015 I have been using all this time. This version is a free program so I don't think there are any issues sharing it. However, I only have the 64-bit version. Check the original post for the google drive link.

I tried the link but keep getting access denied.
I get a message that says ask for access.

Sorry about that. Please try it again. I think I didn't set it to public the first time.

(24-Dec-2021, 09:00 PM)the.ronin Wrote: Sorry about that.  Please try it again.  I think I didn't set it to public the first time.

 Yes working now.
 I’m on my tablet currently but will try imac next in a few ticks.
I have it downloaded but I may need to switch browsers or settings.
Is there a browser it works better with,Goggle?

Im getting apps not supported by macOS and stuff like this is why I should have got a windows computer.There other things that are simple using windows but iMac just makes it complicated and sometimes not possible

I have installed Windows on my iMac before and I’ll try using it later.
I have to attend a few gatherings.

Making progress.
I had windows on iMac so got it all downloaded and made it through making a square. I was in a bit of rush so I stopped there.
When I get more time I’ll see if I can get through the whole example or guide.
Good job on the tutorial.
I taught for years and it’s a great lesson or set of directions.

There’s a link on the start up page that goes to YouTube and has a whole series of using sketchup that really helps with my learning method.

Man Rob you are really diggin' in here!! We might be seeing the birth of the next Armattan here folks!!!

I haven’t had too much spare time here lately and I try to fly 3+ packs a day.
Soon it’ll be way too cold or wet to fly outside and then I’ll see if I can design a very simple unibody frame.

Drone Frame Design Basics – Part 4:  Advanced Design Techniques
 
Ok, maybe not “advanced.”  But certainly a notch or two higher on the fancy scale than the squares and circles we’ve been rocking so far.  And aside from the aesthetics, we also need to touch on design constraints.  So far, we have been operating in a perfect world.  In reality, we need to have our creations transformed into carbon fiber milled by machines in the real world.  And so far at least, these machines cannot cut corners.  Literally, lol.  
 
Dog Bones & T-Bones
 
Your shop can only cut an *inside* corner as sharp as it’s smallest drill bit allows.  For example, if your shop uses a 1mm drill bit, your corner can only be as sharp as a 0.5mm radius.
 

 
This becomes of particular importance when designing interlocking joins as with camera plates.
 

 
Note that earlier I made a point to distinguish this as an *inside* corner.  Outside corners can be cut to be perfectly angled however since the drill bit can simply form the corner from opposing directions without being limited to its physical size.
 

 
With that said, I avoid sharp angled corners as much as possible since the pointed edge tend to be prone to breakage or delamination.
 
There are two common approaches for designing boxes for use with interlocking joins.  We’ll first take a look at the “dog bone.”  Start by drawing a rectangle 2x5mm.
 

 
Go into Tools then select Protractor.
 

 
Position the protractor at one of the corners.
 

 
Click once at that endpoint and drag the pointer along one of the sides.
 

 
Click again and now you can set an angle by moving the mouse.  Enter “45” which will appear in the bottom, right window and hit enter.  This will set a guide of exactly 45 degrees from that corner.
 

 
Do this for all 4 corners.
 

 
Using the guides, draw a line extending along the guides 0.5mm long from each corner. 
 

 
The 0.5mm length represents the radius (=diameter/2) of the drill bit being used.  If the smallest bit is 1.5mm diameter, your minimum corner radius needs to be 0.75mm.  As an side, take note of your shop’s tolerances as well.  You may find you need to have it 0.8mm to account for slop.  The shop should be able to provide you with tolerance data.  However, their true tolerance in real life is something that can only be gained from establishing a relationship with your shop and getting a true feel for their capabilities.
 
Since we no longer need the guides, you can use the eraser tool to erase them or select each one and press delete.
 

 
Using the Circle tool, draw out perfectly 1mm diameter circles by starting from the inside endpoint of the 45 degree 0.5mm lines and drawing out to the corner of the rectangle.
 

 
Sketchup rears it’s ugly head again and deletes faces.  So friggin’ annoying!    You can recover these faces by just completing the radius line in each of the circles.
 

 
Use the erase tool to delete everything inside the shape.
 

 
Congratulations!  You now have a precisely measured dog bone slot!!  You can use this slot by copying and pasting it wherever you need the slot to be.  Simply group it, copy it, paste it, then explode it.
 

 
Another variation is called the t-bone.  In this approach, we are drawing the radius straight up or down along the sides of each corner.  From there, we draw our circles, delete the inside of the shape, and voila!!
 

 
For masterless samurai extra credit, take a stab at the “sniglet” lol …
 

 
The Arc Tool
 
The Arc tool is my bread & butter for spicing up a design.  Access it by clicking on it from the toolbar or pressing “A.”
 

 
Like other tools, the Arc tool is a very contextual tool so you need to pay close attention and zoom in close to make sure you are catching all of the snap points that it triggers.  When connected to the endpoints of lines with equal lengths, it will draw out a perfectly tangent arc.
 

 
The same occurs when hovering the Arc pointer at the midpoint of lines.  However, the lines do not have to be of equal lengths.
 

 
When drawn between two line segments, it will draw a perfect semi-circle.
 

 
Lastly, as with many tools in Sketchup, you can enter in precise measurements (which appears in the lower right window) and hit enter allowing you a lot of creative freedom with the Arc tool.  In this example, I am adding a taper to the arms we created earlier by extending the base 2mm; drawing an arc from that extended line to the motor mount; then entering 0.5 as the Arc “bulge” and hitting enter.
 

 
Bringing this all together, you can see from the following model of the Ronin Mk1.5 how I made use of all of the techniques discussed.
 

 
That is it, young padawan!!  You now have not just the skills to design a basic FPV drone frame, but also a bit of kung fu to effectuate some more advanced design concepts!  Go forth!!  Banzai, Daniel-san!!  Banzai!!!  
 
Oh … right. 
 
Now you actually need some place to turn your brilliant idea into a tangible, carbon fiber pièce de resistance … I had contemplated actually starting this whole thing with the next section, “Production,” discussing costs and logistics … but I didn’t want to discourage you before we even got started.  

thank you mr miyagi :-)

Production
 
TL;DR:  CNC Madness.  
 
I kid you not, I must have been handed that advice a hundred times when asking, nay, begging, people to recommend a carbon fiber cutting shop.  *NOBODY* wants to share their source.  I’m not exactly sure why.  I get it took you some work to find it, but as it takes some work to find that hip new Spanish tapas bar (tapas, not topless, but maybe that too) wouldn’t you want to share the find?  Heck, in this case, you may even end up getting a discount for bringing in new customers!  At least one would think.  But information on a reliable shop may as well be the cure of cancer in FPV, evidently.
 
CNC Madness (Canada)
 
With that said, CNC Madness is a good alternative lol.  They are affordable, Nick’s (owner) communication is top notch, and the quality is really quite good for the price.  So what’s the problem?  Well … they are affordable but only to the extent you are willing to spend a bit more for a bespoke frame.  Nick is a great guy … when he is not juggling a million orders because of being so popular.  I have gone upwards of 2-3 weeks before hearing a reply from him.  This can be a bit … annoying … if you are trying to run a shop.  And the quality is indeed good.  No caveats there.  However, any extras will cost you.  Chamfer edges?  Press nuts?  That’ll cost you.  So these can add up.  (And, yes, later on I’ll discuss how this may not cost you at all in other alternatives.)
 
The cost to cut the Ronin Mk1 came out to $39.22.
 
U.S.-based Shop
 
In this case, I am going to use a shop called Plastic Spider as an example because my experience with them was very similar if not identical to other U.S.-based shops.  Based in North Carolina, this is a very professional shop.  They even have youtube videos showing off their impeccably clean machining environment.  As with CNC Madness, their communication is top notch.  Unlike CNC, they are responsive regardless of their workload – very professional.  Like CNC, the quality of their carbon fiber and precision of cuts is also very good.  Unlike CNC, they are pricey.
 
The cost to cut the Ronin Mk1 came out to $87.00.  Yup, you read that right.
 
China-based Shop
 
You might have already guessed that this is really the only option if you are intending on producing frames of any meaningful quantity.  That’s a no brainer.  However, I’d actually go further and say you should use a China-based shop for even your one-off projects!  It’s really *that* compelling.  And they will do it!  Granted, it obviously won’t be the bulk pricing but it still comes out cheaper than the other alternatives.  But then you get hit on the shipping fee and shipping time, right?  That must be the catch.  Nope.  Shipping fees are as cheap if not cheaper and Fedex means shipments arrive in 5 days at the latest.
 
The cost to cut the Ronin Mk1 came out to $27.58.    This includes Fedex shipping and all other transaction fees! 
 
(As an aside, this is just for the cut carbon fiber.  Hardware, packaging and other overhead made up the $37.99 price tag.  Yes, I am pricing at a loss but counting on volume later to make up the difference in scale – making profit through lowering of cost rather than increase in price.  Basically, I will pay for market share now so I can have profit later.  Just didn’t want you thinkin’ I was makin’ out like friggin Rockefeller on these frames.  Trust me, I am not LOL.   )
 
But as I mentioned off the bat, it is not easy finding a reputable shop.  When I gave up asking people in the industry to throw me a bone, I just started literally cold calling China lol.  The folks that respond to emails know decent English so this was productive.  I ended up with the shop I use now mostly because the guy on the other line just seemed decent.  Their pricing was very competitive and they had enough of an online presence that I didn’t feel like I was dealing with a no name.  We have now established a very good relationship.  Unfortunately, he is not very technical so I’ve given up asking advice for better ways to cut carbon fiber.  However, he always willing to work with me on pricing and doing things for free like adding press nuts.  He has also proven useful in sourcing hardware for me.  So the benefits accrue over time.
 
Non-Disclosure Agreement
 
No, they don’t hold any water.  Absolutely none whatsoever and anyone that tells you different is smokin’ the brown frown.
 
But they are an excellent form of insurance.  Put another way, you now have something to say when for whatever reason you are asked the question, “what have you done to try and protect your intellectual property?”  When would you be asked this question?  Who knows.  When you want a partner.  When you want to get a loan cos your makin it big time.  Simply put, there are too many instances this would come in handy and too many instances where its absence could be a real buzz kill.
 
I use what we call in my other life a “short-form” NDA.  Just one page.  It has all the big stuff like … shoot.  I was gonna go summarize it but heck, just copy it.  Not like I didn’t copy it from someone else LOL. 
 

 
Usually, a shop will just sign it and send it back … they know full well it’s just bullshit too LOL.  But I’ve had shops come back to me with their own NDA lol wtf man.  This one shop, and I kid you not, came back to me with a friggin TWENTY PAGE NDA!!!  Really, bruh?  My old boss used to tell me, if we’re gonna f*ckin argue over the NDA, imagine what we’re gonna argue over when the real negotiation is on the table?  So true.  Hard pass on that shop.
 
I would say the one area you don’t want changed is actually “Governiong Law.”  The last thing you want is to have to hire lawyers in friggin China and travel there right?  Keep that your home state!  Lol.
 
Selling Your Stuffs
 
TL;DR:  CNC Madness 
 
LOL I’m actually not kidding.  Nick is very enterprising offers end-to-end fulfillment on your designs.  I never had this conversation with him so I am not sure what type of commission structure he uses.  But basically, you can let him know that you want him to sell your design and he will put it in the CNC Madness store.  What’s great with this program is that he offers various carbon fiber cuts (e.g., with or without chamfer), various hardware options, etc.  It’s actually very well thought out. 
 
A side note with CNC Madness though.  I once sent him a file to cut and explained that this was a 20x20 to whoop adapter designed for the then recently released Armattan Bobcat.  In about 0 seconds flat, that design was on his store.  I really didn’t care and when I asked him about it, he was very quick to caveat that since I had posted it on Thingiverse it was public domain and therefore it is ok for him to sell it.  Yea … that’s not what I was gonna ask Nick but ok!  LOL.
 
Armattan is another option.  I’m not going to spend too much time on this one because I don’t know anything about how they sell frame designs.  It was a recommendation given to me when I was in the process of finding a shop.  What may or may not be a drawback is that they are based in Malaysia I believe so the logistics is something to consider.
 
Or … do it yourself!! 
 
The primary way people seeming to be setting up shop is through Shopify.  Personally, I am using Woocommerce since I hate the very idea of a subscription fee.  So all I’m on the hook for is website hosting.  But it is a LOT of work to set up.  I’ve set up websites throughout my life so if you are in the same situation, you really should consider Woocommerce.  With that said, everything is on you to fix any issues.  With Shopify, I think you even have a phone number you can call lol.  As an example, my freeging “Buy” button was missing from ALL of my pages on ALL browsers EXCEPT the one I use lol WOW.  The only reason I knew this was a customer was eager enough to actually contact me about it.  That was really really really embarrassing man.  And I thought maybe it must have been that big Wordpress update … nope.  That big Woocommerce update?  Nope.  One single goddamn friggin little piece of sh*t plugin whose only purpose is to prevent visitors from seeing one single particular product was causing this catastrophic failure.  Yea.  That’s what I mean.
 
Closing Words
 

”Leonardo da Vinci” Wrote:For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

 
Yea … so Leonardo da Vinci did *not* write that.