While waiting for better weather to attempt 30min & 10k on my NanoLongRange, I got bored and starting thinking about another LR build...

I know 4" is the popular choice right now, but I haven't built one yet and I have a few twists on the idea, so I figured why not.
Also, after spending many hours and probably hundreds of combinations in ECalc with different frame and motors sizes, I just kept coming back to the 4" with 1404 motors as a great sweet spot for sub 250g.

The numbers looked ok on the HGLRC 1303.5 motors, but they were a little overloaded and weren't going to handle 3S as an option, so in the end it was 1404's.  The T-Motor's actually appear to be more efficient than the Flywoo's (at least on paper) so that's what I ended up ordering.

For the frame, I tried my hand at my first ever design from scratch, so I'm crossing my fingers that it'll work out.
It's being cut now and should be around 20g with hardware.

@iFly4rotors - please enter this build into the Challenge

My goals for this build are:
1. Dry weight as low as possible, to allow for flexible battery choices (ie. 2S 18650, 2S 27100, 3S LiPo)
2. Choose a motor type & KV that would allow flexible battery choices.
3. Initially analog only, but dry weight low enough to easily add either a split-cam or Insta360 GO camera later.
4. RX and VTX components to allow a truly long range (distance from transmitter) capability. 
5. Something fun and portable, beyond just the 10k/30min challenge.
6. GPS, barometer & lost model buzzer.

Here's my parts list:

Frame: Custom CF top/bottom plate design, bottom mount battery, 4" deadcat geometry to keep props out of view if using splitcam [20g]
Motors: T-Motor F1404 3800KV [9.3g with wire]
FC/ESC: HAKRC F411 20A AIO 25.5 x 25.5 mount, 2 full UARTS w/ built-in barometer and current sensor [7g]
VTX/RX: ImmersionRC Ghost Hybrid RX/VTX 600mW [2.2g]
VTX Antenna: TrueRC Singularity Lite [1.5g]
RX Antenna: Ghost qTee [1.2g]
FPV Camera: Caddx Ant Nano [2g]
Props: Gemfan 4 x 2.4 bi-blade [1.6g each]
GPS: iFlight [6g]
Buzzer: GEPRC Super Buzzer [3.5g]
Battery Strap (velcro & elastics): [2g]
Misc hardware: [11g]

Approx. Dry Weight: 102g

Everything is on order, but it may be a month before my AIO FC arrives.

I've got 18650's, 27100's and some 3S LiPo's on hand, so I plan to experiment with them all.

Here's a sneak peak at my frame design.
I prioritized weight over durability, because I figured I can always swap over to a Flywoo Explorer or Airblade Transformer down the road if this doesn't work out.

I sized the narrow area on the top plate so that I can heat shrink the GPS directly on top.
The tab at the back end of the top plate is sized to zip tie my RX antenna directly.

The frame has mounting holes for whoop AOI and 20x20.

Hopefully the arms will be stiff enough.
I'm getting two bottom plates cut - one 2.5mm and one 3mm thick.  If the 2.5mm is stiff enough, I'll use it.
For the top plate I'm going with 1.5mm.

   
   

Nice! This looks like a really well thought out plan. You'll have a ton of overhead available in the motors to run an aggressive tri-blade prop with a 3S or 4S LiPo for when you want to have fun with it too!

(24-Apr-2021, 06:44 AM)V-22 Wrote: Nice! This looks like a really well thought out plan. You'll have a ton of overhead available in the motors to run an aggressive tri-blade prop with a 3S or 4S LiPo for when you want to have fun with it too!

Thanks V-22, ya I'm really interested to see if the t-motors live up to their spec.
Interesting thought on the 4S! I never considering that.

(23-Apr-2021, 08:46 PM)amped_fpv Wrote: I sized the narrow area on the top plate so that I can heat shrink the GPS directly on top.
The tab at the back end of the top plate is sized to zip tie my RX antenna directly.

Hey man just a heads up. I did the same with the Diatone Roma F4 hoping to save some weight avoiding a TPU mount. I was not able to get any sats at all with my Matek M8Q. When I moved it back off the tail using a TPU mount, I was able to get fairly quick sat lock as I normally would with that GPS.

(24-Apr-2021, 05:32 PM)the.ronin Wrote: Hey man just a heads up.  I did the same with the Diatone Roma F4 hoping to save some weight avoiding a TPU mount.  I was not able to get any sats at all with my Matek M8Q.  When I moved it back off the tail using a TPU mount, I was able to get fairly quick sat lock as I normally would with that GPS.

Oh, interesting. 
Thanks for the tip, that might save me some troubleshooting time if it takes forever to aquire sats!

Hi Amped,

I have listed this BIULD as a Participant in the Challenge. Thanks.

Also, I noticed your comment regarding 1303.5 motors not handling 3S...what KV would that be???

My Phantom-X is running 1303 5000 Kv motors, spinning Gemfan Hurricane 4024 props, and flies just fine on a GNB 3S 1100 mAh battery...AUW is 176 grams...it flies for more than 17 minutes. I have also used a 3S 18650 pack which pushes the AUW to 275 grams... the Fly time was more than 17 minutes, but no improvement over the 3S 1100 mAh LiPo. 

I will say, that I got the best Fly Time of more than 21 minutes with a 2S 18650 pack, AUW = 226 grams.

Since the Phantom-X does so well with the 1303 5000 Kv motors and 4 inch props, I was thinking about trying some 1303.5 or 1303.6 in the 5000-5555 Kv range on this one and see if there is much difference.

(26-Apr-2021, 11:23 PM)iFly4rotors Wrote: Hi Amped,

I have listed this BIULD as a Participant in the Challenge. Thanks.

Also, I noticed your comment regarding 1303.5 motors not handling 3S...what KV would that be???

My Phantom-X is running 1303 5000 Kv motors, spinning Gemfan Hurricane 4024 props, and flies just fine on a GNB 3S 1100 mAh battery...AUW is 176 grams...it flies for more than 17 minutes. I have also used a 3S 18650 pack which pushes the AUW to 275 grams... the Fly time was more than 17 minutes, but no improvement over the 3S 1100 mAh LiPo. 

I will say, that I got the best Fly Time of more than 21 minutes with a 2S 18650 pack, AUW = 226 grams.

Since the Phantom-X does so well with the 1303 5000 Kv motors and 4 inch props, I was thinking about trying some 1303.5 or 1303.6 in the 5000-5555 Kv range on this one and see if there is much difference.

Hi iFly,

Good to know.  Thanks for the real world info.
Ya, when I put the 1303.5 4500 KV motors into Ecalc on 3S, it said that the power limit of the motors was exceeded.
In reality, I'm assuming that's only at full throttle, so for long range cruising, based on your experience, it sounds like they'd be just fine.
This is what I was considering: HGLRC Aeolus 1303.5 2500/4500KV Motor - Rotor Village

Also, these motors aren't in the Ecalc dropdown, so I had to enter the spec manually.

It would be interesting to see the results if you try them!

My first component has arrived!
ImmersionRC Ghost Hybrid module...


My first time using one of these and it looks pretty cool.
It's a receiver and 600mW VTX on one 20x20 board.
       

1303.5 is very good motor size. Although 1404 is ofcourse better.

All my 3" quads are 115mm or 120mm.
If I had 130mm or little bigger I would toss 3.5" props on my 1303.6 5500kv.

But.. then another problem
I have 2 huge desk drawers full of props. 3". 4".... 14". 15".

(28-Apr-2021, 03:58 PM)amped_fpv Wrote: Hi iFly,

Good to know.  Thanks for the real world info.
Ya, when I put the 1303.5 4500 KV motors into Ecalc on 3S, it said that the power limit of the motors was exceeded.
In reality, I'm assuming that's only at full throttle, so for long range cruising, based on your experience, it sounds like they'd be just fine.
This is what I was considering: HGLRC Aeolus 1303.5 2500/4500KV Motor - Rotor Village

Also, these motors aren't in the Ecalc dropdown, so I had to enter the spec manually.

It would be interesting to see the results if you try them!

Hi amped,

I have run the 1303 5000 Kv motors spinning 4 inch props on 2S and 3S batteries and both LiPo and 18650. 

From my actual flights, there were no issues and the motors didn't get hot. So, I would think that the 1303.5 4500 Kv motors should work fine. In fact, I will bet getting some 1303.5's, swap out the 1303's for the 1303.5's, and chart the difference in performance. That is the only real way to tell.

All my parts have arrived early!
Time to start building 

                                   

From what I know, 1404 is smallest motor with 2xxx KV. Very desirable for larger smoother bearing, and low Idle Currect = min power to just move props.

13xx/12xx/11xx are all 5000KV+.. or maybe 4500KV.

Virtually all the micro motors I looked at also have poorly shaped magnets (many dont even have arc magnet), and much worse air gap.

Its a very big reason why power to weight, and efficiency drop off a cliff at 3".

(07-May-2021, 10:19 PM)romangpro Wrote: From what I know, 1404 is smallest motor with 2xxx KV. Very desirable for larger smoother bearing, and low Idle Currect = min power to just move props.

13xx/12xx/11xx are all 5000KV+.. or maybe 4500KV.

Virtually all the micro motors I looked at also have poorly shaped magnets (many dont even have arc magnet), and much worse air gap.

Its a very big reason why power to weight, and efficiency drop off a cliff at 3".

Based on my search for a motor, I would agree with you.
That's how I ended up coming back to the good old 1404.  
I just got it fully built last night, so I'll post some pictures soon.

I might take it out for it's maiden flight tonight.  So far I've just done a hover test.

Actually I think I have a slightly rough running motor already 
I should know better by now to always order more than 4 motors!

When I went to arm it for the first time with props on, it was raining outside, so I did it on our back deck which has a roof.
I got about 6" off the ground and then in the blink of an eye it shot to the moon!  Hit the ceiling and came crashing back down on the wood deck.
I couldn't believe I didn't break anything.

But, since then, one of the motors is running a little rough and I'm having to turn the filters up higher than normal to avoid any inflight jitters or runaway's.  

Then first runaway was due to a problem with filtering in a development build of Betaflight 4.3.  I'm using 4.3 so I can take advantage of the IRC GHOST protocol for my receiver.  I've since switched to a different build now and it seems to be corrected.