This one's a doozy, so if you can even make it thru this post, thank you very much.

I've been flying with the Tango 2 for a while now - back in February I added the ELRS module, and started phasing out my crossfire rx's for reasons that don't matter here. Everything flew fine on the Tango.

Now, all of my quads are on ELRS, and I switched to Zorro ELRS version, and installed the A01 gimbals and calibrated.  All of my quads - EXCEPT my Kiss and Fettec quads - fly perfectly fine, on both the Tango and the Zorro.  My Kiss quads will really act weird on the Zorro only.  If I do a split-second snap roll or flip, the quad will continue to flip two or three times, long after I've centered the stick.  Any testing I do has to be very high up.  It's almost like there is lagging going on. 

I realize there aren't a lot of Kiss folks here, but I'm thinking the problem isn't Kiss, as they still work great on the Tango.  The only thing that's changed is the radio and I'm wondering could it be EdgeTX?  Or some other shenanigans? 

I asked in the ELRS discord and they tell me it's Kiss.  Fettec discord tells me it's ELRS, so I'm at my wit's end here. I have the Zorro set up exactly like the ELRS module in the Tango.  Packet rate 500, Telem radio 1:128, max power 100mw, ELRS I've tried the most current version as well as 2.2 (which is what's working on the Tango), nothing makes a difference.  If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate it.

Looking at your issue from a logical perspective, if the Zorro running EdgeTX is working perfectly fine with all of your ELRS / Betaflight equipped quads then I don't see how it can be anything else other than an issue with the KISS hardware / firmware. If KISS had blackbox logging you would be able to perform some diagnostics to figure out what was going on with the flight controller but unfortunately it doesn't. That is one (fairly big) downside to KISS. No ability to log / diagnose the characteristics of your flights.

I know it seems like it would be a freaky situation that the ELRS receivers on all of those KISS quads has some kind of fault, but it might be worth swapping the ELRS receiver from one of your known working quads over to one of the KISS quads to see if the same behavior still persists. If it does then the blame has firmly lies with the KISS hardware / firmware IMO. KISS might have implemented some weird implementation of the CRSF protocol that is only compatible with TBS Tracer / Crossfire receivers and not with the ExpressLRS implementation of CRSF protocol for whatever reason. That is the only explanation I can give.

Do you happen to know of anyone else who is successfully running ExpressLRS on a KISS equipped quad?

(28-Jun-2022, 10:30 AM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: Do you happen to know of anyone else who is successfully running ExpressLRS on a KISS equipped quad?

Yes, me on the Tango 2 though, lol! It actually works better than crossfire for me as I've not had a single failsafe. Last night I tested one of the Kiss quads and brought both the Tango and the Zorro with me. Tango flew just as well as before, but on the Zorro it had problems.

So far I've tested with five Betaflight quads and two Kiss quads. The Kiss quads just will not play nice on the Zorro.

If only you can test another Zorro to be sure its EdgeTX or just your Zorro acting weird.

Any chance you have the ADC filter turned on on the Zorro?

Does your Zorro still run the EdgeTX on it from factory or did you upgrade to the official latest release of EdgeTX?

(28-Jun-2022, 12:53 PM)kafie1980 Wrote: If only you can test another Zorro to be sure its EdgeTX or just your Zorro acting weird.

Any chance you have the ADC filter turned on on the Zorro?

Does your Zorro still run the EdgeTX on it from factory or did you upgrade to the official latest release of EdgeTX?

I updated to the latest version of EdgtTX. I'm not familiar with the ADC filter. But I will look it up and check, thank you.

Someone just had the idea to check how airmode is set up, as I just noticed that when I punch throttle and bring it to zero, the quad just dips like no pids are running. Going to look into that and see as well.

OK, so the KISS quads are working fine using an ELRS module in the Tango 2. I seem to have skimmed over mention of that in your first post without understanding or taking in that you actually have ELRS working just fine with the KISS quads using the Tango 2 with an ELRS module in the back of it.

In that case I have no idea. It seems completely bizarre. Do you have exactly the same model settings on the Zorro as the Tango 2? Maybe try switching OneBit EdgeTX option on for the Zorro to see if it makes any difference.

I've never had a single failsafe on Crossfire in nearly 3 years of use (knock on wood) but I think a lot of TBS users started losing some confidence in Crossfire after TBS seem to have borked the firmware when they took the (unwise IMO) decision to merge the Crossfire and Tracer code bases together into the 6.x firmware releases. I'm still running on last pre-merge 4.11 Crossfire firmware version which has been rock solid. I'm reluctant / nervous about moving to the 6.x firmware after hearing all the random intermittent problems that people have experienced. TBS have really screwed up IMO and at a really bad time exactly when ExpressLRS appeared on the market which seems to have caused a lot of loyal TBS customers to jump ship to ELRS.

Yep! My output in the Zorro wasn't set correctly for throttle so idle up/air mode wasn't working. Thanks for the advice, all!

Did you tried any other packet rate? 

I recall something about the tango2/FreedomTX not being able to really take full advantage on 500hz. 

I would try both the tango 2 and the Zorro with 250hz.

(28-Jun-2022, 01:28 PM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: OK, so the KISS quads are working fine using an ELRS module in the Tango 2. I seem to have skimmed over mention of that in your first post without understanding or taking in that you actually have ELRS working just fine with the KISS quads using the Tango 2 with an ELRS module in the back of it.

In that case I have no idea. It seems completely bizarre. Do you have exactly the same model settings on the Zorro as the Tango 2? Maybe try switching OneBit EdgeTX option on for the Zorro to see if it makes any difference.

I've never had a single failsafe on Crossfire in nearly 3 years of use (knock on wood) but I think a lot of TBS users started losing some confidence in Crossfire after TBS seem to have borked the firmware when they took the (unwise IMO) decision to merge the Crossfire and Tracer code bases together into the 6.x firmware releases. I'm still running on last pre-merge 4.11 Crossfire firmware version which has been rock solid. I'm reluctant / nervous about moving to the 6.x firmware after hearing all the random intermittent problems that people have experienced. TBS have really screwed up IMO and at a really bad time exactly when ExpressLRS appeared on the market which seems to have caused a lot of loyal TBS customers to jump ship to ELRS.

Yes, that's part of the reason I switched to ELRS.  The new Crossfire Rx's forced 6.11 (I believe that's the version) on people and once I updated to that, quads started failsafing sporadically.  Each one that would failsafe, I'd throw ELRS in, and not once have I failsafed those. They're less than half the price, they run fine inside a carbon 5" frame even with only a ceramic antenna, I'm happy with ELRS overall. Setup could be easier.

(28-Jun-2022, 05:19 PM)PeladoMat Wrote: Did you tried any other packet rate? 

I recall something about the tango2/FreedomTX not being able to really take full advantage on 500hz. 

I would try both the tango 2 and the Zorro with 250hz.

Yes, I heard of that as well.  Something about the Tango not being able to use more than 250hz, but I still was able to use 500hz on it so I dunno.

Anyway, a friend suggested that yesterday and it made no difference.  It all had to do with my airmode/output settings in the model itself.  All is well.

(28-Jun-2022, 01:50 PM)JinxFPV Wrote: Yep! My output in the Zorro wasn't set correctly for throttle so idle up/air mode wasn't working. Thanks for the advice, all!

Well that turned out to be something nice and simple, for a change

(28-Jun-2022, 05:22 PM)JinxFPV Wrote: Yes, that's part of the reason I switched to ELRS.  The new Crossfire Rx's forced 6.11 (I believe that's the version) on people and once I updated to that, quads started failsafing sporadically.  Each one that would failsafe, I'd throw ELRS in, and not once have I failsafed those.  They're less than half the price, they run fine inside a carbon 5" frame even with only a ceramic antenna, I'm happy with ELRS overall.  Setup could be easier.

It is Crossfire firmware version 6.10 that was the minimum version required for the new revision 46 and later Nano RX's (which have a different chipset on them due to the global chip shortage). I'm lucky enough to still have 5 brand new unused earlier revision Nano RX's which means I can remain on the 4.11 firmware and won't be forced to upgrade to the 6.x firmware anytime soon. However, once I've flown ELRS enough to build the same level of trust and confidence in it that I have with Crossfire (on firmware version 4.11) I may start exclusively building quads with ExpressLRS instead. At the moment I'm still intending to put Crossfire on 5" builds, with ELRS going on anything smaller.

(28-Jun-2022, 05:40 PM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: Well that turned out to be something nice and simple, for a change


It is Crossfire firmware version 6.10 that was the minimum version required for the new revision 46 and later Nano RX's (which have a different chipset on them due to the global chip shortage). I'm lucky enough to still have 5 brand new unused earlier revision Nano RX's which means I can remain on the 4.11 firmware and won't be forced to upgrade to the 6.x firmware anytime soon. However, once I've flown ELRS enough to build the same level of trust and confidence in it that I have with Crossfire (on firmware version 4.11) I may start exclusively building quads with ExpressLRS instead. At the moment I'm still intending to put Crossfire on 5" builds, with ELRS going on anything smaller.

If it ain't broke why fix it..! ? Glad you still have some of the old rx's. I can't believe TBS messed everything up like they did.

(28-Jun-2022, 05:24 PM)JinxFPV Wrote: Yes, I heard of that as well.  Something about the Tango not being able to use more than 250hz, but I still was able to use 500hz on it so I dunno.

Anyway, a friend suggested that yesterday and it made no difference.  It all had to do with my airmode/output settings in the model itself.  All is well.

Yeah, the Tango gimbals can't be sampled above 250Hz. I don't know anything about KISS, but I'm guessing it has something to do with the feedforward smoothing or some other receiver post-processing that is being done on the received signal. I would try running the Zorro at 250Hz as PeladoMat suggested and see if the issue goes away. If it does, and you want to run 500Hz, you'll have to dig into the KISS settings some more to figure out what you need for a 500Hz link.

Edit: Nevermind, I see you resolved the issue.