So... I had a horrible flying day today... the diatone really doesn't live up to the hype for me and I killed a couple of batteries with the bumblebee. 

So my question: Does over-discharging cause puffing? Or is it possible that something else is killing my batteries on the bumblebee. 

Here is the scenario:
Today I flew a total of 5 batteries... 

• My first battery was on the diatone: Landed a little early because I had some crashes and didn't trust the timer on the taranis. v15.3
  
• Second battery was on the bumblebee: Landed about typical timing, TH% around 1:25... battery was hot and a little puffy. After getting home v13.7 
  
• Third and fourth batteries were diatone landed about typical th% about 1:20 both batteries were 15.1 or so... 
  
• Fifth battery on the bumblebee: crash when trying to punch out to recover from a very agressive dive... battery was very puffy and very hot... carried back away from body out of fear lol... after getting home v12.3
  

So my question is... did I perhaps just damage the batteries by flying too aggressively for my timer to be accurate or is something possibly wrong with the bumblebee? 

Batteries are Lumenier 4s 1300 75c/150c discharge so I don't think it's the c-rating???

 

Very sad and very frustrated right now.... The worst part... I am not sure that I got the footage of the really awesome flights! Gonna go check that next.

what are your set ups on both quads Carl?

http://intofpv.com/t-carl-vegas-220-bumble-bee-build

The diatone is more an experimental control in this case. You can think of it as the "this quad isn't the type to potentially damage batteries" but if it helps its a crusader GT2 200 stock with xsr reciever

there's nothing in your set up that would suggest to me that you're over loading your batteries. average size motors with only 2300kv motors. 20a 4in1 escs. so unless you're running full throttle for the whole 2-3 minutes your batteries should be able to hold up fine.

Not full throttle the whole time... but I was definitely flying very aggressively with lots of full throttle punch outs... I'd say I was >70% throttle about half of the time...

The second time as I applied 100% throttle to recover from the full speed dive towards the ground it started to lift and then sunk back to the ground slugishly and video went yellow... I'll never forget the feeling it was so bizarre.

I reeeeally don't want to kill any more batteries :\ those things are way too expensive.

how long have you had those batteries? how many cycles would say you have put them through?

(28-May-2017, 02:02 PM)JimmyLe813 Wrote: how long have you had those batteries? how many cycles would say you have put them through?

2-4 months... I would say not counting charge and then back to storage charge cycles about 10-20. If you count charging and then discharging when not flying... probably an extra 4 or 5 cycles.

From what I remember hearing about the Lumenier 1300mA/h LiPo batteries, they're rubbish.

If a battery is getting really hot, it's a sure sign that it can't cope with the current you're asking it to provide. As we all know, C ratings have more in common with election promises than any verifiable reality.

Your voltages after flight do suggest that you are over-discharging your batteries. If they don't bounce back to 3.7V per cell shortly after landing then you are probably going too far. What voltage do you have your low battery warning set at?

from my experience with the lumenier batteries, they are garbage. i go through batteries pretty quick, but that's because i mistreat them. i've recently switched to 1600mah for racing, and 1300mah for freestyle flying. i've found that thunder power adrenaline series are decent, and also the tattu red lines

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help so far!

I am going to be very sad if it turns out that it's the Lumeniers that are the problem. I have (had?) 8 of them. At the same time if it's just that I need to put a tougher battery on the bumble bee and problem solved I can manage that.

I know that I over-discharged, but I am sort of looking for root cause. The fact that they became damaged in-flight suggests that the over-discharge issue could be related, but it could be a distinct issue as well. When I go back to the video on the one flight it's clear that I had about 2 min and 40 seconds flight on the first puffy battery. I haven't had the chance to check up on the other one yet, I have to get the DVR footage to see that one.

As for low voltage warnings... nothing is built in... I have no OSD (its just how I ended up wiring everything up)... I didn't build the required components to get proper telemetry... and my voltage beeper stays in the tool box for checking between flights (although I could keep it attached... not sure if I'll be able to hear it always though I fly a pretty big field.

So the good news/risky news... I have a couple of R-Lines... I stopped going with R-Lines because of the additional weight, but if that's what it takes to power this little monster of a quad I'll happily pick some more up, it's a pretty light quad and can handle the extra weight as needed. It's also so well fitted as a quad that flys well for me personally that I'd be willing to bend over backward and use a different (more expensive) kind of battery to power it just to keep using it. I am absolutely in love with the flight characteristics of this quad and would do anything to keep it running.

I have had luck with my batteries, but then again i only run pretty light (2-blade) props... my friend uses 3-blades and more, and i think most times when he puffed batteries it happened when he did hard full-throttle runs towards the end of the flight.

On the bumblebee, did you check wether the motors are hot after flight? If so, it could also be noise or PID eating away more power than necessary.

Ah, yes a detail that I left out.... The cobras have never been even a quarter as warm (1/4th being defined as the difference between ambient temperature outside through the reference temperature.) as these batteries were.

I did not feel the ESCs due to all-in-one... bottom of flight stack.

I may have to try 2 blade props + R-Lines to start. If no puffing then I'll know that one, the other, or a combination are more likely to be OK...

To be honest... if it turns out that the quad is too hot to deal with sub-standard batteries that would be a little cool... even if it did cost me another 265 bucks or so to fix (I'd need 8 more of them and crowncityfpv is the cheapest place to get them that I know of at 33 bucks a piece. although they're out of stock right now)... To be able to say that my build is too much for Lumeniers to handle... lol... that's almost financially masochistic though so I should be careful. I don't want to wish costs on myself.

Also don't forget that you progress fast, pushing it harder from flight to flight! I had to cut off another 10 seconds off my tx timer twice since i built the rage210...

(28-May-2017, 11:37 PM)fftunes Wrote: Also don't forget that you progress fast, pushing it harder from flight to flight! I had to cut off another 10 seconds off my tx timer twice since i built the rage210...

That is for certain... I know that I am pushing this one way more than I even push in the sims... (and I abuse those virtual quads... lemme tell you)... It'd be better if I can save the money but if I need better batteries that is much better than "this quad is no longer safe to fly because a battery will eventually explode"

Gonna start calling Carl the Lipo Killer!