Whether it is what people call 'yaw washout' I wouldnt know, not being very familiar with the term, though I've heard of it. However I'm fairly convinced fhat what I describe is the mechanism.

It is worth noting that 'props out' helps because of the way the motor outputs are summed. I believe I've read 'props out' helps with 'yaw washout', so it might be the same.

The original uncontrolled flip was simply a betaflight mixer bug - possibly now fixed, l don't know, I've diverted from standard betaflight for some time. However the slower loss of control on cornering at speed is I think due to running out of motor output range.

Yes, better power to weight in any given environment may help - need less throttle, gives more headroom. But, in the end if you go fast enough for a given craft, it will run out of headroom. If throttle is nailed to 100% and you try to wind on some yaw and roll, something has to give, there isn't any spare thrust left.

while brushed is very nice on low rpm, maybe you would like brushless whoop as they provide better topend performance - they doesnt get in a "headroom" issue - maybe a happymodel moblite 7 would fit your performance request better?

Well, as I said, I believe any quad will get this issue in the right environment - if all motor capacity is used up going forward, there is none left for banking etc. I persuaded a reasonably powerful brushless quad to do the same thing. The thing that would probably help most would be a mechanical design that out the CofG/P in the propeller plane - less torque needed for pitch and roll.

As for brushless tiny whoop types, they seem to be all the rage now, but too expensive for my liking at the moment, and way over powered for what my tiny whoop sizes are really used for - indoor flying.

this is just a power to weight issue, a high power to weight quad has better yaw authority - there are no yaw washouts at all - its a mistake by software not hardwardware, beeaflight cant handle such low yaw authority quads on high pwrformance.

No, I am afraid I do not agree it is power to weight as such, although as I said, in any given environment more power helps. It is a limitation of motor power vs usage.

However, we are all entitled to our opinions.

there are no yaw washout issues on better power to weight quads, thats my experience, maybe im wrong. not sure if this is a question about opinion.

do you have a dvr footage to share?


this would be how a "high" power to weight whoop can fly

I think yaw washout has to do with multiple things. With whoops, you can reduce yaw washout by changing the prop direction from props in to props out with no weight change. Also though, my whoops with more power, have less washout issues. Now lose the ducts, and there is even less washout. I moved my Moblite7 to a carbon fiber open prop frame and it flew even better. Part of the problem was that the frame came so warped that the motors were all facing slightly different directions and not straight up.

@hugnosed_bat has a good point that if your motors are older, they may need to be replaced as they lose power. My 65mm brushed whoop hasn't flown for almost a year because when the 3rd set of motors started wearing out, I just did not buy another set. Brushed whoops can be tamed down to help flying indoors. I fly up to a 85mm whoop inside (1-2s).

Well, as I said, I came across some effects that I believe from the evidence and code analysis were caused partly by a betaflight bug, and partly by craft / environment limitations, though some improvements are possible. In the original code air mode got rid of the former but made the latter more noticeable.

Whether this is what everyone refers to as yaw washout, as I say, I don't know. It may or may not be. I have made this effect happen on a bigger brushless quad - you just have to fly it fast enough while carrying out banked turns. In practice this gets pretty impossible to achieve as size goes up unless you have an awful lot of space. Also, the percentage thrust needed for pitch/roll drops off, possibly due to better prop efficiency, so it becomes less noticeable.

Never tried removing ducts.

Good luck flying an 85mm 2s indoors! Beyond me, I won't be trying that.

Afraid I don't keep flight videos, so I do not have any at the moment. I just use them for diagnosis when necessary.

Yes, brushed motors do have a lifetime and fail in different ways, but I think these are OK and reasonably well balanced at the moment, but I'll keep an eye on it.

If I have anything else to post I'll do so, but I don't at the moment.

This is my latest build a 1S 85mm whoop. It is much tamer than a typical 85mm and is less than 50 grams with the larger battery I use (450mAh, 525mAh, 650mAh, and 850mAh).
https://intofpv.com/t-new-build-85mm-1s-whoop