I agree. When you are paying ~£200 with shipping you expect what you are buying to at least be fit for purpose.

I guess Happymodel never learned any lessons from the original (analogue) Mobula7 which went through at least 4 frame designs for that. I remember the original V1 and V2 frames on that were completely useless and they eventually stole the frame design from the Eachine Trashcan which then became the V3 version. That then got improved upon further with a V4 frame being released. Happymodel never learned their lesson with the Crazybee FC's either. Just look at how many iterations there are of that. I'm surprised their ExpressLRS stuff actually works TBH although I do know that some of the QC on that gear can be a bit iffy (wonky components, not great soldering etc.).

the mobula 7 v2 is the most lightweight usable frame as i know, there are some differences. my personal choice is still the v2 therefor.

Actually, the v1 frame was the BWhoop replacement plastic frame for their Snapper7, which was a 1S Whoop. (The M6 uses/used the BWhoop 65 frame, replacement for the Snapper 6.) It was a bit weak for the power of the 1-2S Mobula, and they came out with the v2. JFWIW, I still have my original v1 frame on my Mobula . . . ton of ShoeGoo holding it together, but still flies fine. Eachine contracted with HM to make their parts for the Can to their specs, which was a garbage Whoop. The HM v3 frame they made for the Can is the strongest/sturdiest, but also doesn't handle as good as the v2 & you lose about 10% flight times. Except for my original, all my other 75s are running the v2 frame which is the best of the best of those three. Eachine buys their parts and pieces from other manufacturers & has them re-brand the parts to say "Eachine." THEY are the copycats . . . and their products always have been inferior to the ones they try to copy. URUAV also uses rebranded Happymodel parts, and seems to do a little better job than Eachine.

The QC on the Crazybees have been spotty at best. I do have a nice collection in my Dead Crazybee Box, with all but one of my Beta boards hanging with the Crazies too, so Beta's QC is even worse. Got every one of the Crazybees replaced by HM . . . and I'll never buy another Beta board again . . . 

I don't need ELRS on a Whoop. Even the onboard receivers can take my Whoops out a good distance . . . before they clip a branch or wire and go tumbling across the grass . . . as far away from home as they can get . . . why would I give them the satisfaction of going out farther before they hit the ground? I can hear them laughing when I'm walking to pick them up now . . . 8^}

(02-Feb-2023, 05:09 PM)Brian_OH Wrote: I don't need ELRS on a Whoop. Even the onboard receivers can take my Whoops out a good distance . . . before they clip a branch or wire and go tumbling across the grass . . . as far away from home as they can get . . . why would I give them the satisfaction of going out farther before they hit the ground? I can hear them laughing when I'm walking to pick them up now . . .

The only reason for me going ELRS on a Whoop 65/75/85 is because I'm standardising, having tested the waters and found reliably calm seas..

The reason for buying the Moblite7 (and the Mobula6 digital) is to gain micro sized HD, which DOES make a very significant improvement to my enjoyment and flying accuracy.

The Moblite7 frame supplied has now fallen apart, literally. The battery tray is toast, disassociating itself from the rest of the frame. Its had very light treatment, didn't matter. It's FAR too feeble for purpose, rubbish material, and the power of the quad will easily support some strategic extra weight.

SO, I have bodged this frame with a battery tray from an Eachine E010, a type I have available since I remove them from the E010 frame while converting those quads to hovercraft, and I have with club and kids own builds got "a lot".

And I have some more highly regarded BetaFPV Meteor 75 frames being loaded onto a Junk when the winds are suitably angled.

(08-Feb-2023, 09:40 AM)BadRaven Wrote: The only reason for me going ELRS on a Whoop 65/75/85 is because I'm standardising, having tested the waters and found reliably calm seas..

The reason for buying the Moblite7 (and the Mobula6 digital) is to gain micro sized HD, which DOES make a very significant improvement to my enjoyment and flying accuracy.

The Moblite7 frame supplied has now fallen apart, literally. The battery tray is toast, disassociating itself from the rest of the frame. Its had very light treatment, didn't matter. It's FAR too feeble for purpose, rubbish material, and the power of the quad will easily support some strategic extra weight.

SO, I have bodged this frame with a battery tray from an Eachine E010, a type I have available since I remove them from the E010 frame while converting those quads to hovercraft, and I have with club and kids own builds got "a lot".

And I have some more highly regarded BetaFPV Meteor 75 frames being loaded onto a Junk when the winds are suitably angled.

I still keep reading about problems people are having with the ELRS receivers from binding to compatibility problems with different versions. Makes me wonder why the manufacturers are pushing it so hard . . . 

With the multiprotocol Jumper, I've been able to fly all the major protocols out at the time, and a handful of the toy protocols too. Any of the three major outboard receivers, Frsky, Flysky & DSMX, even their little ones, like Newbee's Beeceivers, give me more range than I need, which is a good thing, and all three give me the same range and maintain control around and behind things in the landscape, one not really being any better or worse than the others.

For my 75s, I've been using the BWhoop v2 frame, but for all Whoop frames . . . ShoeGoo is my friend . . . The v2 is the best combination of handling, flight time and strength. The v3 is the strongest of those BWhoop frames, but you lose a bit of air time & something with it just doesn't handle as good as the other frames, but it can take a beating. I've tried the 65 Cockroach frames & they're decent . . . not indestructable, but they will replace them if you brake one. I would think their 75s should be good too.

Beta frames are the only good thing Beta makes. I don't need or want their 75 frames, the v2s are my go to, but all my 85s & 95s are on Beta frames. The 85s are just their regular frame, it does not need that c/f brace at all, and why add the extra weight. The 95s have the c/f brace more built into the frame, and really won't work w/o it.  Those are the only two Beta products I'll buy. Their electronics are garbage. I have four out of five brushless f/cs bite or show up DOA, and the fifth bit in less than a month. Their QC is worse than Crazybee, and at least Crazybee replaced all their defective boards.

(09-Feb-2023, 05:08 AM)Brian_OH Wrote: I still keep reading about problems people are having with the ELRS receivers from binding to compatibility problems with different versions. Makes me wonder why the manufacturers are pushing it so hard . . .

Well, you will, won't you, just like people have issues with Spektrum, and lets not start at the tangled state many get into with the plethora of differing and non-compatible FrSky firmwares and products. Like every other RC make, it depends on the aptitude and skill of the user as much if not more than the hardware/firmware.

At my regular flying site, flying buddy and I have both had erratic issues with FrSky. We both had equipment that would go weeks with no issues at all, then we'd both or one of us have more than one drop out of the sky in a session, and no explainable reason.  Same model(s), same site, another few days, often even next day, same equipment, no changes, no issues.

I switched to ELRS, gradually reaching the state where,while I stil have some FrSky receiver models, they rarely get used.   Buddy stayed on FrSky.

He's continued to get regular but intermittant drop outs across his three quads. I have had NONE on ELRS, NIL, ZADA, ZILTCH, but despite little use, still one on FrSky where the quad, in Acro, decided it preferred to be inverted level. It rolled there uncommanded and remained perfectly level inverted (from goggles and spotter standpoint) with no stick control all the way from 100 feet plus up to ground. Range from Tx about 30 metres.  Recovered it undamaged and flew it out that pack as it was only a minute in, then two more packs with no issue.

ELRS on 250 rate "feels" better than anything else, undefinable, but present. And this is comparing against................  as I have the following transmitters...............big breath...............

Selection of Futaba 27MHz "M" series inc 4 and 2 channel Tx
8 of 35MHz Futaba 6/7/8 channel
2 of Futaba 6EX FASST 2.4GHz
Futaba T10CG (60th Anniversary) FASST with biggest CAMPAC
Futaba 6  FHSS (new in box unused)
2 of Spektrum DX6i (was three at one point but gave one away to a junior)
2 of Spektrum DX7
Spektrum DX9
FlySky FS-i6
FrSky Taranis (second batch in UK)  Has a Futaba FASST module installed, a real rarity!
3 of FrSky X12S  (I was a Beta tester for them but had to pay a discounted amount, getting 2, then inherited another when a flying buddy passed away)

One of the X12S has a Namimno ELRS Flash 2.4GHz OLED module, settled on v2 firmware. (I have another new module here ready to use if needed). Another has a iRange Multi-Prootocol Module mostly used for all the Chinese "toys".

The most robust reliable radio of all BY FAR is my Futaba FASST with not the slightest glitch over its whole heavily used many years life to date. (Across 3 transmitters and in excess of 50 receivers. NO failures.

With ELRS receivers I have examples of just about every make/model of receiver going, deliberately. Includes the AIO offerings.  My favourite is the Matek dual diversity if there's space for it and its base loaded antenna pair.

Is ELRS worth it if you do not intend to fly illegal long range?  It has NOTHING to do with range, and everything to do with link reliability and "feel".  A very definite and well tested YES.

For ELRS, link reliability was the selling point for me, as well as range- I don’t do long range, but, I’ve got parts of my property where my signal needs to go through multiple layers of cinder block and steel siding. FrSky d8/d16 or spectrum dsm(x/2) couldn’t do it without a failsafe- I tried.

Being able to set matching bind phrases and not have to fiddle with trying to figure out the right protocol on my multi protocol tx module or deal with trying to press a tiny button on a board while powering up was a pretty big selling point too, especially after I inadvertently stumbled into the middle of an FrSky protocol change.

So yeah, I’m ELRS even on my tiny little birds. No, they don’t need the range. Keeping everything on the same protocol is just much easier for me.

…isn’t 27mhz only supposed to be used for ground vehicles?
Wait, no- 72MHz was aircraft only, 27mhz was all rc.
I don’t remember what we used to use on the old am band.

(09-Feb-2023, 07:21 AM)BadRaven Wrote: Well, you will, won't you, just like people have issues with Spektrum, and lets not start at the tangled state many get into with the plethora of differing and non-compatible FrSky firmwares and products. Like every other RC make, it depends on the aptitude and skill of the user as much if not more than the hardware/firmware.

At my regular flying site, flying buddy and I have both had erratic issues with FrSky. We both had equipment that would go weeks with no issues at all, then we'd both or one of us have more than one drop out of the sky in a session, and no explainable reason.  Same model(s), same site, another few days, often even next day, same equipment, no changes, no issues.

I switched to ELRS, gradually reaching the state where,while I stil have some FrSky receiver models, they rarely get used.   Buddy stayed on FrSky.

He's continued to get regular but intermittant drop outs across his three quads. I have had NONE on ELRS, NIL, ZADA, ZILTCH, but despite little use, still one on FrSky where the quad, in Acro, decided it preferred to be inverted level. It rolled there uncommanded and remained perfectly level inverted (from goggles and spotter standpoint) with no stick control all the way from 100 feet plus up to ground. Range from Tx about 30 metres.  Recovered it undamaged and flew it out that pack as it was only a minute in, then two more packs with no issue.

ELRS on 250 rate "feels" better than anything else, undefinable, but present. And this is comparing against................  as I have the following transmitters...............big breath...............

Selection of Futaba 27MHz "M" series inc 4 and 2 channel Tx
8 of 35MHz Futaba 6/7/8 channel
2 of Futaba 6EX FASST 2.4GHz
Futaba T10CG (60th Anniversary) FASST with biggest CAMPAC
Futaba 6  FHSS (new in box unused)
2 of Spektrum DX6i (was three at one point but gave one away to a junior)
2 of Spektrum DX7
Spektrum DX9
FlySky FS-i6
FrSky Taranis (second batch in UK)  Has a Futaba FASST module installed, a real rarity!
3 of FrSky X12S  (I was a Beta tester for them but had to pay a discounted amount, getting 2, then inherited another when a flying buddy passed away)

One of the X12S has a Namimno ELRS Flash 2.4GHz OLED module, settled on v2 firmware. (I have another new module here ready to use if needed). Another has a iRange Multi-Prootocol Module mostly used for all the Chinese "toys".

The most robust reliable radio of all BY FAR is my Futaba FASST with not the slightest glitch over its whole heavily used many years life to date. (Across 3 transmitters and in excess of 50 receivers. NO failures.

With ELRS receivers I have examples of just about every make/model of receiver going, deliberately. Includes the AIO offerings.  My favourite is the Matek dual diversity if there's space for it and its base loaded antenna pair.

Is ELRS worth it if you do not intend to fly illegal long range?  It has NOTHING to do with range, and everything to do with link reliability and "feel".  A very definite and well tested YES.

I meant more that it was new, and still growing. I'm an open source fan long before quads, it's benefits outweigh it's negatives, but does move at it's own pace. 

Nice Futaba collection. There doesn't seem to be a lot of those around any more, I hardly ever read about them, unless it's about that dual receiver with the Futaba or Frsky switch. Long ago when my Dad would take us to the r/c day at one of the local airports, all the guys . . . sorry girls, but I really don't remember any women flying those  . . . that were serious into the planes & the few helis, all had Futaba radios, and our local hobby shop where we got our slot car stuff from, had the gas/fuel r/c planes. and the new fancy Futaba radios were in a glass case at the back of the store, at the back of the U shape counter. They seem to have lost that popularity around here, and don't remember seeing any Futaba radios at the quad shops I frequent.

With all the problems I've been through since I started playing with these little flying machines, the one I've really never ran into was a reliable radio signal. The times I've had a quad just drop from no control signal was on the quad, and it got fixed/replaced, or I was behind something that I probably shoulda known better than to try to go around. I put a bigger/better, I thought, antenna from a booster on my Jumper, and I get good solid range with that consistently from protocol to protocol. 

Along with not looking for long range, I also didn't have the dropsies problem, so never really looked into ELRS much . . . just the headlines. Wasn't there a "pine" something protocol people were flashing on their Whoops for the difference in "feel" but also much less latency in the controls . . . If I was having dropouts even fairly often with the big three, I'd be looking for a cure for that in some form or another, and welcome any suggestions, and would be looking at ELRS & Crossfire.

I was having video problems, or more that the video wasn't performing like I'd expect, and was getting more than bothersome and annoying enough that I did fix it with a Foxeer Wildfire module, which I wouldn't have thought I'd need/want to replace on those goggles . . . so now I can watch me hit the ground if the radio cuts out . . .

(09-Feb-2023, 08:13 AM)Lemonyleprosy Wrote: …isn’t 27mhz only supposed to be used for ground vehicles?
Wait, no- 72MHz was aircraft only, 27mhz was all rc.
I don’t remember what we used to use on the old am band.

OK, we are WAY off topic now, but its my thread, my rules..................  

Sit quietly, Children, and Papa BadRaven will give you a history lesson, correct AFAIR for the UK.

While early doors all sorts of frequencies were used, all AM, the first regularised and authorised model radio was given a small part of the 27MHz AM band, for ALL RC models.

At that time 6 separate frequencies could be commonly used, crystal controlled, and colour coded like a rainbow.  (Example:  Orange)

As radio quality improved it was possible to half the frequency gap between, so "split" frequencies came into use, with one additional room for one more at each end of the band (Example, for ages I used Brown/Grey split).

Model makers festivals and shows were a logistics nightmare with strict Transmitter control for the limited slots available.

We also all had to pay for a license. (nothing to do with Ham Licenses)

Then "Citizens Band" radio emerged from the US, illegally without license spreading over our and other frequencies, regularly interfering and shooting down models. And did the authorities enforce the law?  NO, they allowed CB to prolifergate, and "graciously" gave us a slice of 35MHz AM, ignoring the fact that we had to replace our TX and Rx at our cost or continue to risk all, especially iffy for air use. 

The good news was that more slots could be accomodated, though clubs or flying sites close to glider slopes could become an issue. This was "solved" by a routine of using odd numbers for one and even numbers for the other site, IF people followed it!

35MHz was for AIR use, 40MHz for GROUND use.

Then 35MHz FM arrived, giving better quality links, shortly followed by synthesised frequency setting. The latter introduced full incompatibility between makes so locked you into one make.

Then along came 2.4GHz. And even that had no standard worldwide, with some countries allowing more power output than others, apart from the actual bandwidth. Early Futaba FASST Tx had an internal switch to allow a UK user to legally fly in France, for example.  And of course digital protocols could be (so are for commercial gain reasons) unique to a manufacturer, hence the more recent multi-protocol hardware to beat that limitation.


AFAIK, for the US substitute 72MHz for 35MHz and the picture was broadly the same?

OK, there will be an exam next week.................  

(09-Feb-2023, 07:21 AM)BadRaven Wrote: Another has a iRange Multi-Prootocol Module mostly used for all the Chinese "toys".

Don't think I have ever said this here in this forum...........

I cannot emphasise enough how innately satisfying it is to force a £500 Transmitter to talk nicely to a £10 Chinese "toy".  

Yay, story time!

I vaguely recall colors. I remember Tower Hobbies sold colored ribbons with the frequency printed on it so that you could clip it to the top of your telescoping antenna so others would know what frequency you were flying- and that color would match to the color of the sticker/plate on the crystal oscillator that you plugged into your gear.

I came of age right around when fm was becoming popular and am was becoming outlawed, but, I was using older am gear because that’s what I could get for dirt cheap.

I don’t remember ever having a signal issue back then- but, I was also flying los so I always had a clear line between my transmitter and craft. There also wasn’t so much stuff clogging up the airwaves.

I do kinda miss the style of those chunky, boxy, hard lined copper/gold colored transmitters.

Thanks for the history lesson.
I love learning things, and you helped me to remember some stuff I’d forgotten.

(09-Feb-2023, 09:33 AM)BadRaven Wrote: OK, we are WAY off topic now, but its my thread, my rules..................  

Sit quietly, Children, and Papa BadRaven will give you a history lesson, correct AFAIR for the UK.

While early doors all sorts of frequencies were used, all AM, the first regularised and authorised model radio was given a small part of the 27MHz AM band, for ALL RC models.

At that time 6 separate frequencies could be commonly used, crystal controlled, and colour coded like a rainbow.  (Example:  Orange)

As radio quality improved it was possible to half the frequency gap between, so "split" frequencies came into use, with one additional room for one more at each end of the band (Example, for ages I used Brown/Grey split).

Model makers festivals and shows were a logistics nightmare with strict Transmitter control for the limited slots available.

We also all had to pay for a license. (nothing to do with Ham Licenses)

Then "Citizens Band" radio emerged from the US, illegally without license spreading over our and other frequencies, regularly interfering and shooting down models. And did the authorities enforce the law?  NO, they allowed CB to prolifergate, and "graciously" gave us a slice of 35MHz AM, ignoring the fact that we had to replace our TX and Rx at our cost or continue to risk all, especially iffy for air use. 

The good news was that more slots could be accomodated, though clubs or flying sites close to glider slopes could become an issue. This was "solved" by a routine of using odd numbers for one and even numbers for the other site, IF people followed it!

35MHz was for AIR use, 40MHz for GROUND use.

Then 35MHz FM arrived, giving better quality links, shortly followed by synthesised frequency setting. The latter introduced full incompatibility between makes so locked you into one make.

Then along came 2.4GHz. And even that had no standard worldwide, with some countries allowing more power output than others, apart from the actual bandwidth. Early Futaba FASST Tx had an internal switch to allow a UK user to legally fly in France, for example.  And of course digital protocols could be (so are for commercial gain reasons) unique to a manufacturer, hence the more recent multi-protocol hardware to beat that limitation.


AFAIK, for the US substitute 72MHz for 35MHz and the picture was broadly the same?

OK, there will be an exam next week.................  

Was this like in the 50s and 60s?

(09-Feb-2023, 12:42 PM)Pathfinder075 Wrote: Was this like in the 50s and 60s?

The story above starts around 1967, so all the changes were later.

The great CB debacle was early/mid 70's

I bought what with "Skyleader" as a competitor was regarded as "top of the line" 27MHz Futaba "M" series in 1973.

I went to the National Model Makers RC Festival in 1978 (and was an exhibitor at Sandown Park Model Symposium that year) and even then it was almost exclusively 27MHz crystal radio for most ground model people, cars, boats, etc.

(09-Feb-2023, 10:37 AM)Lemonyleprosy Wrote: I vaguely recall colors. I remember Tower Hobbies sold colored ribbons with the frequency printed on it so that you could clip it to the top of your telescoping antenna so others would know what frequency you were flying- and that color would match to the color of the sticker/plate on the crystal oscillator that you plugged into your gear.

35MHz users were all supposed to fly an orange ribbon from the aerial with a visible frequency number on a square. (Not at all confusing with 27MHz "orange"!!) 

As default I used 72 for gliders and 87 for power. To compete or at shows you had to have alternative(s) available.

Use of a frequency had to be preceeded by taking a marked unique peg and placing it on your aerial, or placing a peg against your frequency number at a visible location for all. My main club even today has an angle iron frame with numbers in raised weld, and you put your own peg on to reserve that "slot". So two systems, "peg on", or for areas like indoor events where it could be secure "pegs off".

I always wondered what the orange ribbons were for and that now answers it. Used to see them on RC Radios and on RC car antennas back in the late seventies/early eighties.

I have an old RC Radio from back then for a car and to change the frequency you had to rip a component out and swap it, looked a bit like a mini fuse, but had a number on it, so guess that is the frequency.