(24-Mar-2024, 08:02 PM)mstc Wrote: Swapping the VTX/camera should be pretty straight forward, there will be some soldering and BF setups. You would need to be sure the frame has space for the VTX you select. The FC needs at minimum 2A on the 5v rail, most should have that.
However if you are going to swap the VTX/cam and replace motors, then maybe reconsider building one yourself.

I don't have 6S, but 6S batteries tend to be more expensive and quite heavy or you have to go with small cells which tend to have worse performance. But some people love 6S although I think mostly for 5" or larger, so who knows...

So they sell that same BNF with a RunCam Wasp Link FPV. Unfortunately, that ties you into DJI googles which are expensive and only work with DJI products. So I don’t really want to go that route. I looked at the specs on the RunCam Wasp Link compared to the Walksnail HD V2 kit and the VTX sizes are similar. The RunCam Camera is 19 x 19 mm and the Walksnail is 19 x 14 mm.

But you might be right, it may just be better in the long run to just build one.

4S is smoother, 6S is more torque. Or at least that's how people I know describe it. 4S is better for Bandos, 6S is less forgiving due to it's weight and power.

There is no perfect solution, but if you fly in large spaces and maybe also behind trees/buildings I wouldn't totally discount DJI. You could probably get a pair of used Goggles V2 for $200-280 which have a nice large FOV (even the new Integra has dropped to $350). V2 is an "old" version, but will still work with the Vista/air units/ and O3s. I have both DJI and WS, for me DJI has been pretty reliable, I don't think I have ever had any issue and if I need to go out far or in a challenging RF environment, I'd reach for a DJI setup. WS is still good, but a lot more hit or miss depending on if you got a good sample or not. Where WS shines in my opinion is micros, for 8g/$89 you get a 1080p fpv feed (although less range) plus a decent 1080p60 onboard recording - DJI has nothing in that weight class and Vistas don't even record so you only have goggle dvr.

The vistas are EOL though, so eventually the stock may run out. You could move to the O3 units, but they are pricey, heavy and a little more fussy to setup, but you also get good quality 4k recording and superior range/penetration. And one more point, the vista comes with a limited OSD, you have to install an addon OS if you want full BF OSD which is a little extra work with lots of firmware flashing. I wouldn't buy the Wasp camera, the image quality is pretty terrible, but the other cameras like Polar and Nebular Pro are fine IMO.

Regarding motors. I think theres always a bit of luck involved. You may damage a motor yourself, you may get a dud that fails soon or comes that way. They may last a long time. I think of them as kind of expendables. If you do need one then the problem becomes finding ONE, in which case a lot of guys have to buy another set and replace them all. I don't know if it is OK to run dissimilar motors, if the FC can compensate or not. Me personally I would question a statement like “the motors on these suck” they are just motors…

"These motors suck". No, you either can't tune or you built something unfit for purpose. You learn over time what works and what doesn't. Like someone putting motors that generate 200g of thrust on a quad weighing 250g, it ain't gonna fly. Build your quad in a logical way and you won't have these issues. The golden rule of sorts is to maintain a thrust to weight ratio of at least 4:1, but ideally more than that. I've built and flown a few now and only one really failed and that was down to inexperience. I tried to run 6S 1404 on a 2.5" at 4S and it basically desynced the second you armed, but would strangely fly for a minute on 3S before desyncing. But it was a good learning experience. I could have probably made it fly by messing with settings in ESC Configurator, but I would have spent hours trying to get it to fly and for me it's easier to accept my inexperience, learn from it, then put different motors on and go fly, than mess around and burn up time.

People seem to just string together a bunch of parts and ask if it will fly. No one ever seems to logically approach the build.


So now I have a parts list, total weight, know roughly how much thrust it will produce, how many amps it will need and cell count to run it. I could build that and it would fly. The above list weights aren't correct, they are just there for making the point. As long as total weight is a quarter of total thrust it will fly ok

I am not preaching to the OP, just a minor rant. But so many threads in the last month where people cobbled together a list of parts that don't work or work badly. If they just spent some time to research the subject, then made choices based on the research, then it would save them (and us) time.

If you are trying to build something special or experimenting, then it is probably worthwhile to do all the calculations, but it is pretty safe to simply go with tried and tested combos and not have to worry about too much.

You can follow the formula used in popular BNFs as a starting point, and there is quite some latitude - slightly smaller motors for more flight time but less power and larger motors for the opposite.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre...welcome%21

So going to plan on doing this build. I like the fact the frame has removable arms. I have been working on a parts list. One question is that alot of the newer boards have an ERLS receiver built in. It seems to me going with a separate receiver would be wise in case it goes bad. That way you don’t have to replace the whole FC (am I correct in this assumption).

I will start a new thread in build section once I get parts in and have any questions (which I am sure I will).

Thanks for the feedback.

Depends. If you have an AIO running an F411 (2 uarts) with built in SPI ELRS, you technically have a spare uart for GPS and if you run analog/smartaudio via a soft serial, you could have two free uarts. Not that i've tried this, but I noted a few of the AIO's I use technically have free UARTS even through F411. Downside is BF is locked to a version. So ELRS 2 = 4.3.1 and ELRS 3 = 4.4 or higher.

On newer AIO's ELRS is usually UART based, so the same is not possible. But it's down to the builder on how integrated they want the build. I personally like having ELRS on board, as long as it uses a dipole (and not a ceramic or wire type antenna).

But even if ELRS goes bad, just solder something to the corresponding uart and move on. For me it's 4 less wires to solder, if you are lazy.

I definitely prefer onboard ELRS especially for micros, one less component to solder and one less board to place. For a first build I would recommend to go with one of those. Range of an external RX will likely be better, but for ELRS that is mostly good enough. Some boards have a cheap single enamel wire antenna, you have to be a little more careful with those as they should not be blocked or contact other components, but are also somewhat fragile, but worse case is you solder on a replacement if it breaks.
I probably only had one ELRS AIO where the RX failed, so it is rare.

If you build a light TP3, make sure you have enough canopy to protect the WS VTX. If you have a lot of hard crashes, you might shorten the life of the VTX, but having some canopy protection should help.

I looked at the TP3 and agree with @mstc, I would want a canopy on it or more protection for the VTX and camera. Maybe you could use a BetaFPV canopy? That is a classic “toothpick” design and i would prefer a built in Rx with a good antenna also. That is way lighter and less mass than a Sub250 3”. It will fly great for sure.

If you could find it online somewhere, this one:

https://www.getfpv.com/flywoo-goku-f405-...u6000.html

I haven't shopped in ages for an AIO, stocked up before covid... yikes the prices, yikes the availability.

(26-Mar-2024, 04:22 AM)skywanderer Wrote: If you could find it online somewhere, this one:

https://www.getfpv.com/flywoo-goku-f405-...u6000.html

I haven't shopped in ages for an AIO, stocked up before covid... yikes the prices, yikes the availability.

https://www.racedayquads.com/products/ha...8470212721

I was planning on picking up this one. Decent price with lots off added features since Oscar did a review on FCs back in 2021

(26-Mar-2024, 03:26 AM)husafreak Wrote: I looked at the TP3 and agree with @mstc, I would want a canopy on it or more protection for the VTX and camera. Maybe you could use a BetaFPV canopy? That is a classic “toothpick” design and i would prefer a built in Rx with a good antenna also. That is way lighter and less mass than a Sub250 3”. It will fly great for sure.

I have that one in my shopping cart. Also the Happy Model Crux 3. I am ordering the Walksnail Mini Lite camera. I like both of these canopies as they have four mounting points. I will just have to play around and see which one works better. The one in the Toothpick build sold by FPV Cycle has only three mounting points which means that back of the camera is open for abuse.

The Goku board is only 2S, and its very pricey. The ufl connector is nice though.
A lot of the HM boards come pre-soldered with motor plugs, so if you buy plugged motors, that's perfect. However if you need to solder on motors, their pads are quite tiny so you need to take care (this board actually has "larger" pads, but they are still very small).
It's also nice it has a digital VTX plug, however be careful as it outputs Vbat. Walksnail 1S board can only take up to 3S, so if you don't plan to fly 4S, just use the plug. Otherwise you can remove the vbat wire from the plug and solder that to a 5v pad.

I haven't tried this particular model, but I would go for the HM board (there are not a lot of 4S AIOs with ELRS). And buying from RDQ is good, I've had AIOs arrive DOA and they were very quick to respond/replace it (at least they used to anyways).

(26-Mar-2024, 02:36 PM)mstc Wrote: The Goku board is only 2S, and its very pricey. The ufl connector is nice though.
A lot of the HM boards come pre-soldered with motor plugs, so if you buy plugged motors, that's perfect. However if you need to solder on motors, their pads are quite tiny so you need to take care (this board actually has "larger" pads, but they are still very small).
It's also nice it has a digital VTX plug, however be careful as it outputs Vbat. Walksnail 1S board can only take up to 3S, so if you don't plan to fly 4S, just use the plug. Otherwise you can remove the vbat wire from the plug and solder that to a 5v pad.

I haven't tried this particular model, but I would go for the HM board (there are not a lot of 4S AIOs with ELRS). And buying from RDQ is good, I've had AIOs arrive DOA and they were very quick to respond/replace it (at least they used to anyways).

I have pretty good soldering skills (well at least I used to). The guy that designed this toothpick (KababFPV) recommended only running 2S to 3S. Good to know on the camera. That’s where things have changed drastically since I last built a quadcopter as everything was analog. I will start a build thread when I get everything ordered and shipped. I am going to need tons of help with tuning and Betaflight, LOL.