Hello.

I am very fresh in FPV, have bought myself Eachine Racer 250 and making first steps in getting hang of controlling it.
As I have been working wiith youth groups in their after-school time I have a plan of starting a local FPV club to have this journey of mastering fpvs with my yourg friends and it seems more fun anyways to be able to make races. (There are not many scenes  here in Estonia)
How it works here, I have an opportunity to write a project for getting some fundings for starting new past-school activities for youth. Maybe for some 6-8 setups.

Do you have suggestions for a good drone setup for this kind of club activities who start from scratch?
It would be nice to be able to build our drones ourselves to learn also some assembling and soldering.
Would it be better to go for a smaller or a bigger frame (for the 250 of my own i wanter to be able to carry different cams but its not essential here). Whitch ones are easier to fly
What would be more durable solution for rought begnners. I ahve seen an pwl frame which seems pretty robust when flying indoors.
Would be able to use FPV headsets (my own setup is regular vr headset with smartphone RX reciever)
Would it be wise not to go with all same setups but have two different kinds?
Would be nice to have a drone with controller and headset for about 200 dollars/euros.

Because there is lots of wind here i have looked some vacant spacious indoors flying spaces, some old barns, stalls, farms.
Some pics here:
https://kuula.co/post/7lGPL
https://kuula.co/post/7lGP0

Any kind of help appreciated!

Ott

Tough to say, that budget is a little tight. One thing to consider is that you might not have to put everyone in the air at the same time. For example if you go with just 4 setups maybe you can spend a little more money for better equipment and they can take turns.

For the team building their own rigs I'd say start with the UAV Futures $99 build. It's a good way to do a legit build for cheap and it is a video that you all can watch as a team as you go through the process.

I would think that building all of them the same way would be a good idea, this way if you need to replace anything it's the same parts across each of the quads.

If you had just about $100 more per build you could probably do a spectrum radio & receiver, the 99 dollar build, and one of the decent box-style goggles.

Another thing to consider, depending on if you have access to a computer lab is making sure whatever radio you get can hook up to a computer and start with the DRL simulator (since it's free). This way they can get some practice in a safe and controlled environment before actually getting up in the air. Also if you need a simulator that can do self leveling mode you'd need a different one because DRL only does rate/acro.

I agree with Carl,
set a size of your group, and buy x+2 sets of 99$ by Uav Features - durable and as "all will be the same" you will have spare parts (yes you will need them).
if you are at a budget i'd go for the flysky as it is cheap yet has decent range

size wise... 250 are easiest to build as they tend to have a lot of space - and still can perform fine (i've started with ZMR and i had problems keeping all components in, weight 700 g is not a good number ) now, as i learned last time i put zmr together i used only the FC location and built there

precision comes with practice (soldering, and flying).
grab radio... any you can afford and grab a cable to connect it to pc...
simulator.
simulator.
simulator.
when you are sure you can fly.. simulator. then try live and crash

as you will be learning start with ACRO mode not angle ... first flight will be a nightmare... but it will be much easier in few flights and you will not have the issue of changing the behavior.

as for the fpv... go with the googles dedicated not with smartphone... as the delay is terrible... yes you can hover... but you will see the change once you will fly fast... and you are making decisions you should have made 2 seconds ago



a word of warning... explain to the students:
-this is not a toy it can hurt you or others!
-whatever you do/test take the props off (been there done that... take them off)
-explain the safety rules in Estonia (where they can and can't fly, what they should check and where sites organizations etc)

One thing to consider is tying youtube videos into the lessons. For example FPV Academy is one that I used extensively as I was learning on my own. It could make for a great way to get instructions in front of the students from experienced pilots and then you can have a discussion and finally they can try out what they learned and discussed.

I have to tell you, the more I think about it, the more that this sounds like a really fun project!

(22-Jun-2017, 07:01 PM)Carl.Vegas Wrote: Tough to say, that budget is a little tight. One thing to consider is that you might not have to put everyone in the air at the same time. For example if you go with just 4 setups maybe you can spend a little more money for better equipment and they can take turns.

For the team building their own rigs I'd say start with the UAV Futures $99 build. It's a good way to do a legit build for cheap and it is a video that you all can watch as a team as you go through the process.

I would think that building all of them the same way would be a good idea, this way if you need to replace anything it's the same parts across each of the quads.

If you had just about $100 more per build you could probably do a spectrum radio & receiver, the 99 dollar build, and one of the decent box-style goggles.

Another thing to consider, depending on if you have access to a computer lab is making sure whatever radio you get can hook up to a computer and start with the DRL simulator (since it's free). This way they can get some practice in a safe and controlled environment before actually getting up in the air. Also if you need a simulator that can do self leveling mode you'd need a different one because DRL only does rate/acro.

Good suggestions!

I wonder I didnt come to this 99 build myself because I have wached the video before. Amazing tutor over UAV Futures, really inspiring videos and very informative!

Going thu the video tuts is a good idea because Im a beginner myself (tho worked with circuit board hacking before).

Would the FlySky I6 with this kind of dongle cable for simulator work as well? 

I did that mistake myself starting without simulator and crashed bad the first time and still repairing the results of that crash.
Thankyouthankyou, for taking time to think along!

(22-Jun-2017, 11:05 PM)Grisha0 Wrote: I agree with Carl,
set a size of your group, and buy x+2 sets of 99$ by Uav Features - durable and as "all will be the same" you will have spare parts (yes you will need them).
if you are at a budget i'd go for the flysky as it is cheap yet has decent range

size wise... 250 are easiest to build as they tend to have a lot of space - and still can perform fine (i've started with ZMR and i had problems keeping all components in, weight 700 g is not a good number ) now, as i learned last time i put zmr together i used only the FC location and built there

precision comes with practice (soldering, and flying).
grab radio... any you can afford and grab a cable to connect it to pc...
simulator.
simulator.
simulator.
when you are sure you can fly.. simulator. then try live and crash

as you will be learning start with ACRO mode not angle ... first flight will be a nightmare... but it will be much easier in few flights and you will not have the issue of changing the behavior.

as for the fpv... go with the googles dedicated not with smartphone... as the delay is terrible... yes you can hover... but you will see the change once you will fly fast... and you are making decisions you should have made 2 seconds ago



a word of warning... explain to the students:
-this is not a toy it can hurt you or others!
-whatever you do/test take the props off (been there done that... take them off)
-explain the safety rules in Estonia (where they can and can't fly, what they should check and where sites organizations etc)

Thanks for the tips.

Especially with what mode to start flying (ACRO)

Also I have had doubts about smartphone reciever because theres a good change of software crash.
And dedicated goggles seem cooler anytway with their boxy and bulky appearence (more retrofuture ) 
With all the same model goggles, lets say Eachine VR-007 Pro, would there be a change of mixing ups video signals or is that not an issue?

And safety is a serious issue, yes. The more that kids in a local school are rascal type of boys who have been sent to countryside school for special education program. Thats also the reason they need some tech club to be insvolved in , because they are not the types who cand handle sitting still in school lessons. Assembly and mastering something has a good effect of them becoming less problematic adults in the future.

Countryside has fortunately less strict flying regulations as there is lots of space and less traffic here. Flying in the woods is also one great thing we can practice here. 

All the tips are goldsworth!

(23-Jun-2017, 02:30 AM)Carl.Vegas Wrote: One thing to consider is tying youtube videos into the lessons. For example FPV Academy is one that I used extensively as I was learning on my own. It could make for a great way to get instructions in front of the students from experienced pilots and then you can have a discussion and finally they can try out what they learned and discussed.

I have to tell you, the more I think about it, the more that this sounds like a really fun project!

Going thru video lesson course is also a good way to have a good structure and rhythm of club gatherings, so thanks!

Its great you see this project as a good idea.
As  I said, these kids are somewhat special cases and do not fit into schoolsystem too good so any kind of challenging goal involving tech and racing is a good way of taming them.
Also, because there is only one FPV scene in Estonia I know of and its in capital, then it makes sense to start a league here at once, with more people.

Hopefully Grisha or someone can verify about the cable. I have only ever flown taranis before so I don't really know about the flysky.

On video conflicts, the good news is the VR-007 has a 40 channel receiver, more specifically it can do Raceband channels (The C grouping of channels). As long as you're installing a VTx that can do raceband as well then you'll be in good shape. This group of channels is designed to give you the ability to put the maximum amount of people in the air at the same time. By having 4 fliers in the air at the time you can have them on alternating channels such as 2,4,6,8. If you pre-configure everything to these channels you also avoid anyone powering up and causing someone else to lose vidoes. Alternatively if you want to cover frequencies and RF a little you can show how some of the channels across the different bands interfere like IRC/FS 1 and Raceband 3 for example.



The hands on learning is endless really, which is one of my favorite parts of this hobby. I am an autodidact and a pattern thinker so I consume the kind of knowledge that I get from this stuff. Similarly some rowdy kids might just be starving for a bit of high tech hands on learning that stretches their brains in a fun way! I know that it would have been perfect for me when I was young.

Great work with this project! It sounds like an amazing way to help others. You should be commended for the effort, I really mean it!

(23-Jun-2017, 10:40 AM)Carl.Vegas Wrote: Hopefully Grisha or someone can verify about the cable. I have only ever flown taranis before so I don't really know about the flysky.

On video conflicts, the good news is the VR-007 has a 40 channel receiver, more specifically it can do Raceband channels (The C grouping of channels). As long as you're installing a VTx that can do raceband as well then you'll be in good shape. This group of channels is designed to give you the ability to put the maximum amount of people in the air at the same time. By having 4 fliers in the air at the time you can have them on alternating channels such as 2,4,6,8. If you pre-configure everything to these channels you also avoid anyone powering up and causing someone else to lose vidoes. Alternatively if you want to cover frequencies and RF a little you can show how some of the channels across the different bands interfere like IRC/FS 1 and Raceband 3 for example.



The hands on learning is endless really, which is one of my favorite parts of this hobby. I am an autodidact and a pattern thinker so I consume the kind of knowledge that I get from this stuff. Similarly some rowdy kids might just be starving for a bit of high tech hands on learning that stretches their brains in a fun way! I know that it would have been perfect for me when I was young.

Great work with this project! It sounds like an amazing way to help others. You should be commended for the effort, I really mean it!

Super. Thanks for explaining video transmission issues in a wellput and short way.

About this learning curve being challenging:
Many people have suggested for going easier and simpler regular drones at first saying that many kids will lose interest if they cannot get results right away. Theres a point in that because patience and abilty to focus are especially rare these days. At the same time I see youth losing interest and being disappoint when you get a hold of something very fast and when there does not seem to be more perspective on something. The key could be demonstrating small doses of what is about to come. Maybe simulating FPV experiance with just watching some flight videos from VR goggles to give a taste how it becomes more and more satisfying on the way. If we would have some pros here who could show advanced flying on the spot, would be nice also. But it can be arranged with visits to big town, when some racing events take place there.

Bytheway, do you have suggestions, what parts should I include in the kits extra, what are the most common parts that needs to be changed over time. Are there some kind of ratio between parts that break down. Lets say 3 new props for 1 new motor. To get the sufficient amount with the first funding.

Maybe there are some other tools/equipmnet that come handy in drone racing that I can not think about yet?

For me, I always keep 5 sets of props on hand for myself as a single user. It's more than I ever need during a flying day but it's the fact that I never run out that matters. For 4 setups, I'd go with maybe 5-10 sets of 4. Stick with something durable like the Dalprops so that mostly you're just bending them back into shape rather than replacing them all the time.

Batteries are another thing that I've personally had a few die on me so far. This has partially to do with some issues with my build being power-thirsty, partially to do with the quality of batteries I bought, and partially just because I overused them. I don't overstock on batteries because I always buy mine domestically so I can replace one in less than a week, but having plenty of batteries is a good thing, especially to keep everyone's attention and keep em in the air! The amount of batteries that you keep depends on how much charging power you have and how many flights each person needs to get. If you're going to be flying in locations without power then you'll need to decide how many flights each person is going to get and multiply that by the number of participants including yourself. So if everyone is going to get 5 flights each and you have 6 students and yourself then you need f*(p+1)=5*(6+1)=35. This can potentially be a costly part to your budget depending on which batteries you get. Keep in mind that charging 35 batteries will take a long time unless you have a lot of charging power. You'll have to plan ahead for that part.

It always helps to have extra frame arms. It's a part of the frame that gets broken in a tough crash and replacing it is a basic repair. 2-3 should be a good amount to keep on hand

Depending on how exposed the camera is, having 1 or 2 extra lenses on hand could be good in the case of a straight on crash.

Receiver antennas, and some video antennas can get damaged during crashes depending on the setup and the equipment you're using. I would suggest staying away from mushroom caps and look for something durable and then just keep 1 or 2 extras on hand for video, and 1 set of receiver antennas on hand. something like this is durable and cheap. Although, be careful to get matching polarization (right hand vs left hand) for the goggles and the right kind of connector ("SMA"/"RPSMA") to match the receiver.

2 or 3 each of ESCs and Motors on hand will save waiting on shipping times. Although I haven't burned either of these out yet, I have seen folks on here mention that they have. Make sure to teach proper use of arm/disarm switch and this is a little less of a risk.

I am sure that others can share more thoughts. These are just what come to mind for me, and what I carry with me to the field.

(23-Jun-2017, 09:38 AM)ottkosmoses Wrote: As  I said, these kids are somewhat special cases and do not fit into schoolsystem too good so any kind of challenging goal involving tech and racing is a good way of taming them.
Also, because there is only one FPV scene in Estonia I know of and its in capital, then it makes sense to start a league here at once, with more people.

It's not really cheap, but this race timer has been recently listed on BangGood for $99. Kids tend to pick up new things quite quickly and as soon as they get the hang of it they are going to get competitive, there are obviously cheaper ways to get rough times, it just might be easier to factor in this expense with initial funding rather than trying to save for it in future..?

Other things to bring to the field - a fold up table really comes in handy, specially as usually the best flying times are when dew is on the ground. A gas or battery powered soldering iron + accessories, it's great having spare ESC's with you, but if you cant connect them in the field, its just going to add to the annoyance if one fails. A few bits of spare wire so you can hack a quick fix, eg breaking the antenna socket off the VTX on the 1st crash. if you are going to soft mount motors, make sure you have spare rubber grommets, again if you have a spare motor but lost the rubber in the crash... Just made me think of motor screws, they can vibrate loose...

for a cheap transmitter ive been using the flysky with the simulator package that i got on banggood works well enough

Flysky FSi6X Transmitter with X6B receiver for radio gear.
210mm Frame from www.myRCMart.com
Acro F3 SPRacing from www.myrcmart.com
Matek PDB with current monitor from www.myrcmart.com
Racerstar ESC/Motors (2205) from Banggood
5040 Props bags of 10 pairs from bangood
Basic CMOS cam and VTX from Banggood
The small Eachine Vr06 Goggles from banggood

Heaps of 1300ish 4S batteries from Hobbyking EU Warehouse

Buying in "bulk" will save some $$.
If you have a established Banggood or Hobbyking account you may be able to get better pricing again. Otherwise make a couple of orders so you can collect and then redeem the "points"

I think you'd just scrape in under your target price.