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Went down to the river after work with a friend as spotter - first timer in this spot
#16
(01-Oct-2017, 07:00 PM)campagnium Wrote: You're oh-so-right on this one - personal experience? Big Grin

Just common sense my friend.

When the police wish to interview you it is because they suspect you of committing an offence. It is their job to gather evidence to pass to a prosecutor so that the prosecutor can raise a prosecution against you.

If you admit anything, that is evidence that the prosecutor will use to justify the prosecution and present as damn good evidence to convict you.

If you engage in even casual, unrelated conversation with the police, they will attempt to twist what you say so that they can present it as evidence. They will also lie to you (something which is quite permissible in most countries) in an attempt to get you to admit things. They will intimidate, promise and manipulate to get you to incriminate yourself. The more you talk to them, the more you present them with tools to manipulate you. A good interviewer can tie most people in knots as soon as they open their mouths.

So, you shouldn't do the police's work for them by admitting anything and neither should you engage in conversation of any description with them over and above "no", "can I leave now?" and of course "no comment".
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#17
(01-Oct-2017, 09:43 PM)unseen Wrote: Just common sense my friend.

When the police wish to interview you it is because they suspect you of committing an offence. It is their job to gather evidence to pass to a prosecutor so that the prosecutor can raise a prosecution against you.

If you admit anything, that is evidence that the prosecutor will use to justify the prosecution and present as damn good evidence to convict you.

If you engage in even casual, unrelated conversation with the police, they will attempt to twist what you say so that they can present it as evidence. They will also lie to you (something which is quite permissible in most countries) in an attempt to get you to admit things. They will intimidate, promise and manipulate to get you to incriminate yourself. The more you talk to them, the more you present them with tools to manipulate you. A good interviewer can tie most people in knots as soon as they open their mouths.

So, you shouldn't do the police's work for them by admitting anything and neither should you engage in conversation of any description with them over and above "no", "can I leave now?" and of course "no comment".

..*woah, that's quite an advice, thank you!!  Heart Big Grin
I must admit that already the thought of it makes me worry about my pokerface. I'm not exactly cool when it comes to spontaneous lying. My aggressions usually are driven by my strong sense of justice. 
Making up an alternative reality with all the bits and details is something else.  Rolleyes
I've got Italian genes, and NOT talking to anyone requires me being seriously angry at someone - guess I'm a pacifist through and through, and that was as well why I practised martial arts: In order to talk to bullies in a relaxed fashion.
That's kind of my mindset when I have to talk to the police,
and unluckily that has been the case a couple of times. I'm not lying, I'm not withholding anything, I'm just navigating within the possible variants of the present evidence, careful not to add any.
How the plaint is formulated allows a couple of deductions concerning proof necessary to prosecute. Self-accusation ultimately weighs less than witnessed alibis, so always take an eye on never being alone Wink
From what I got out of the police officer, there is no evidence of me flying. So as long as there isn't, I wasn't. Period. Cool

Have a good one, everyone! *embrace
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#18
I'd be pretty upset if I got called in to an 'interview'. That alone would be enough to keep my expression stony and my will hardened.
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#19
The thing is, if they press more and more and make flying these things illegal then it'll turn more and more into counterculture. Right now there is still motivation to play by the rules because there are still some opportunities to fly but eventually if the law becomes too strict then folks will stop posting youtube videos and just get together and fly in rogue locations, not caring about trespassing or "no drone" signs or nearby airports and just do whatever they want. And they'll do it because "it's cool" to break the law... All you have to look at is skateboarding. The more and more that people tried to make skateboarding difficult to do legally the more it became a cool outlaw thing to do.

Unfortunately several of us who like to play by the rules will be out of luck because I am not going to push those limits. A conviction on my record or any amount of jail time would pretty much mean career-over for me so I guess if it got too bad I'd just hang things on the wall as decorations of a hobby long lost.

One thing that I really think the laws need to distinguish is 3 areas of RC flying... There are the fix wing modelers... who are typically very law abiding mature folks who fly almost always at parks and big open fields where nothing is going to get damaged... these people should get maximum leeway.
Then there are people who fly custom built race/freestyle quads... which are much more likely to have collisions but are generally light weight and more likely to be damaged themselves rather than damaging what they hit. This group (most of us) should probably be given a bit of leeway but be expected to keep property and people safe and be very liable for damage as a motivating factor. You damage it, you fix it... ninja branches don't count.
Finally there are the "drone" fliers as I think of them... people who fly DJI camera platform equipment. These folks aren't really pilots as much as operators and really the biggest risk with these people is privacy and trespassing. I would think these folks should be allowed to film /photograph anywhere on public land without people around but should have their rear ends handed to them if they're spying on people or crashing into the white house lawn like a drunken idiot. [/rant]

Other than that they should just leave us alone darnit!
carl.vegas
Current Quads: Operational: Diatone GT2 200 In need of repair: Bumble Bee, tehStein,  Slightly modified Vortex 250 
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#20
When you hear what the Canadian regulator is now proposing, it's clear that those who are empowered to regulate understand absolutely nothing about our hobby. Sadly, it's similar to stupid politicians who don't understand how encryption works and are insisting on being able to decrypt any communications that they feel like "because terrorists/think of the children". Rolleyes

There are already plenty of laws on the books in every country that can be applied to people who are stupid or irresponsible with RC craft. New laws and new restrictions are unnecessary, counterproductive and will damage a growing industry to the detriment of everyone.
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#21
Hey guys,
oh, this thread still lives!  Big Grin
This is my second attempt at answering,
the server seems to be very busy today Rolleyes
Well, I agree, technological and scientific evolution represents an important challenge to any society: As progress accelerates itself, but growing bureaucratic complexity  tends to suffocate itself into operational paralysis, the laws will always lag behind. As there is a conceptual necessity to create and adapt more and more laws, the number of humans acting like machines and treating subjects they neither feel nor understand will increase.
I witness a surge of new regulations in my professional field as well, and all of them are obviously issued by people not familiar with the subject. They have just elected a woman professor for a medical faculty in Basel University Hospital, just because she's a woman. Her male contestant was lightyears ahead of her, but a man. They wanted a woman. Political correctness leads to bigotry and nepotism - politics in general focus too much on particular interests: While technology becomes exponential, bureaucracy accelerates in the opposite direction: Unluckily, the effects of politics and laws are more short-term, as they aim to stabilize a fracture which has already occured. Clinging onto every bit of power and control, the direction of the whole development is the middle ages. Steam punk. Technology and wild west. Just read the news..
The counter force to this is entropy and complexity. They are impossible to compensate - exept you cool the whole process down: That's happening to a lot of countries too, in the attempt to maintain control. The result of this gameplay of opposing forces eventually leads to a commonly defined plane of reality which is more and more distant from what actually happens. The consumer goods industry and the media do their work to keep us consuming and uninformed. Govern the masses..

FPV quad guys are not likely to be part of any of these groups. We're individualists, and we want to understand what's going on. That's the fundament of our activity. Insight, sensibility and logical deduction. Everything it takes to become a functional human being.
I agree with Carl where the "black market" is always proportional to regulatory efforts of the government. New tax on cigarettes? - Growing illegal imports, easy. There's a natural balance which cannot be shifted to either side for a long time.
As soon as someone is able to build a quad, reasonably tune and fly a quad without constantly endangering surroundings, this person belongs to a minority in society. We're responsible ourselves for finding ambassadors, diplomats, etc. for our hobby. People will make of it what they understand - whatever. The hobby will be perceived how we communicate it, and that's why it's important how we behave towards bystanders: It's important to be open, patient and jovial, but I consider it equally important to draw some very clearly defined lines:
What I'm doing is not illegal. I have invested a lot of time and consideration in what I am doing for a few minutes right now. I am willing to inform and share, but please do comply and behave in a civilized way, as otherwise - just like when crossing a street or practising sports - people may get hurt. No law will ever be able to compensate for human stupidity.
Let's not forget that technology has equally enabled humans to prosper despite their evolutional obsolence. We're close to 50% cesarean sections by now. Meaning that 50% of women are transmitting genes that formulate a birth channel (hips) that doesn't work. Like french bulldogs. Cute, but can't reproduce without surgical help. Oh my..
..our ideals of "democracy", of "equal rights" and so forth are humanistic and noble, okay, but they come with a cost: By abolishing meritocracy and supporting the reproduction of ineffective members of society (welfare, projects, ghettos etc.), industrialised countries will face an important efficiency problem: Like every teenager wants to be a social media star today (..and I have the feeling pretty much every single one wants to..) and there are about three times as many stars as fans around, in the western and soon the whole world, everybody wants to consume, relax and enjoy. Nobody wants to produce. The chinese have already evolved into workload surveillance long ago - they're not stitching our t-shirts anymore, they're moving to the african continent as part of a new burgoisie who is surveilling the locals working in local plants. Previously, public transportation has been boosted by "financial support" from China, and now the only transportation functioning reliably in this city is the one bringing workers to the factory. India has evolved, China has evolved, Africa is about to evolve (..into a consuming vs. a producing country), so who's going to produce for us? Obviously technology..
..but what are all those superstar-relaxed-enjoyment-selfulfillment-individuals going to do with their spare time? Consume? Reproduce? - welcome to the Matrix.. Cry

I see us as pioneers, as projection plane, as diplomats. It's our responsibility to communicate the liability, but as well the fascination of our activity. Communicate the possible benefits for other disciplines generated "while playing FPV". You guys wouldn't believe how good I got at endoscopy ROFL ROFL ROFL , by now I refer to FPVquads as "high-speed-endoscopy" Big Grin
FPVquads are a vessel of expression, of communication. We can and should communicate unusual perspectives on a world we believe to know in detail, we can share freedom of expression and appreciation of surroundings, we may instill that feu sacré or spark into the young mind in order to motivate for a scientific career, we may teach to share the space, to plan our actions and to help each other pushing the limits - the fundament of humanity.

Apostolic fpv Wink
Keep it up, never back down on an argument and keep your cool!
Heart Happy flying everyone!! Heart
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#22
First class wall of text!
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#23
(09-Oct-2017, 07:11 AM)unseen Wrote: First class wall of text!

Huh! - From you, Sir, this means a lot to me, Thanks!! Big Grin
I am well aware of the limited audience for such "walls",
on the other hand, I've never been particularly proficient at the fabrication of opium  Wink
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