Hello

i saw a JB review on youtube and i have discovered that fw, but what is it exactly ?

a new BF ?

KISS has been around for ages (since about 2015 I think). Look up Flyduino which is where it all started before it then transitioned to FETtec and also branched off to a parallel product (the KISS Ultra FCFC)  which is designed and by Alexander Federov. The firmware is all closed source.

I've been trying to get hold of a KISS Ultra FCFC for my ImpulseRC Apex frame, but with all the hype and the low volumes being produced it's virtually impossible to get one. The last batch a few days ago sold out in less than 30 seconds. I really hate playing that "who can get to the checkout first" game before all the stock is already sold. I'm probably just going to wait now until all the hype and buying frenzy has died down.

Is Kiss better than BF? Mark doesn't seem to think so:

(21-Feb-2022, 11:04 PM)sevro Wrote: Is Kiss better than BF? Mark doesn't seem to think so:

https://youtu.be/bc1WrFHtS5E?t=0

As much as I respect Mark for what he does for the FPV community with tuning tutorials and the Betaflight presets he provides, it seems like he hasn't actually flown either the new FETtec G4 or the KISS Ultra FCFC and is just going off other people's videos and a gut feeling plus some past experience of early KISS flight controllers from a year or more ago that have no comparison to the two new flight controllers just mentioned.

I've never flown KISS myself but I am keeping an open mind and would like to try it (if I can ever get hold of an Ultra FC), and the Apex frame was designed with the KISS flight controller and dynamics in mind so it would seem to be the ideal time and opportunity to give it a shot if possible. KISS and FETtec ESCs have a bad reputation for blowing up and/or catching fire but the Ultra FC works with BLHeli ESCs and also supports BLHeli passthrough for easy flashing of the BLHeli firmware.

In typical FPV drama style, below is a video that Ross put out in response to Mark's video above. It would also be wise to read the comments under the video where Mark himself has posted some responses/replies. Fast forward to 4:30 to skip all the stuff on the Jumper T-Pro and get to the part about the KISS stuff.

I've got to admit I've started many a UAVtech video and I don't think I finished any of them.

Kiss is irrelevant to me because it never seems to be available.

(21-Feb-2022, 11:40 PM)sevro Wrote: Kiss is irrelevant to me because it never seems to be available.

Yes, and if you're outside of Europe or Australia it seems to be really difficult to get hold of, and expensive in shipping costs. The KISS Ultra is only being sold through 3 vendors - the official KISS Ultra store which only ships to EU countries (that is EU countries not European countries, so being in the UK I can't buy one from there), from an FPV shop in Germany, and from ImpulseRC who are in Australia. That is it.

When a new batch of Ultra FC's is released (which doesn't seem to be particularly frequently), each of those 3 shops gets ~300 units each, and when the stocking notifications are sent out that is when the bun fight begins. So far I've been unlucky and just not quick enough before they've all sold out. I may just end up throwing the towel in and sticking a Betaflight FC in the Apex.

@Rosssiiii - Look what you started with a simple innocent question 

I’ve thought about trying Kiss but after watching this video I’m not so sure it’s not all fanboy hype.
I’ve seen fanboy hype when I raced team Lossi buggies and they actually believe what they say.
I think it’s personal preference.

Personally I would like to try KISS (if I can ever get hold of an FC) to see for myself how it feels rather than just going on what other people say and all the conflicting info out there. Like Ross said in his video in post #4, just fly whatever hardware and firmware you like as long as you yourself are enjoying it and having fun which s all that really matters.

It's the same with HDZero and DJI. Just ignore all the KISS / HDZero / DJI fan boys and try the hardware for yourself if it's something that interests you.

I bought into the KISS hype and have 1 micro and 3 5" quads running it. I'm kind of sorry I got into it and am actually donating one of my brand new KISS FCs to a local freestyle competition this summer as a prize. I intend to run what I've got on my quads until they break but after that I'm going back to Betaflight.

First reason - it's a lot of hype. Sure, it flies great out of the box but I firmly believe that one can get Betaflight flying just the same.

Second, there is no blackbox logging (well there is but it's terrible) or room for tinkering, as I like to fix my stuff and replace MCUs or other SMDs if I can. KISS is completely closed source and there is a serial tied to each MCU so if you break your FC, you have to buy a new one. I brought this up in a YouTube comment and Alex himself told me to go back to Betaflight.

Third, the community can be extremely toxic and cultish. I had to leave the Discord because I got sick of Alex and his rabid followers blasting Fettec constantly (and I've had my fair share of Fettec issues - their Alpha firmware caused a runaway that shattered my rear window of my car last month)...and omg the WHINING when Mark started calling out KISS for not being all that and a bag of chips. Alex comes off as a dude with a massive ego, and acts like a straight up baby sometimes. Basically Alex is God and any negativity towards KISS is heresy. No thank you.

Fourth, this whole KISS Ultra bit where he has us waiting forever and says 300 FCs will be available, then at the last minute..."oh they're only available for EU customers". That was where I just said forget it. And people are paying what...$300 when they're resold on eBay? I'm sorry but no flight controller is worth all that trouble. If you gave me one now I wouldn't take it.

Yeah. I'm now kind of beginning to get sick of waiting for KISS Ultra FC's to come into stock and then be quick enough to actually grab one of the limited number available from the only vendor in Europe who will sell to a UK buyer. It also makes you wonder how long your quad will be out of action for if the FC dies and you then have to join the bun fight again trying to get hold of a replacement FC. It seemed like a nice idea but I think I might just give up on building a KISS quad and stick with Betaflight hardware for my Apex 5" frame. It's a shame, but until Alex gets his manufacturing priorities in order and ramps up production (which is something he sounds disinterested in doing), it seems that KISS hardware is probably only for the hardcore KISS fanboys who refuse to fly anything else, or for someone that has the patience of a saint who doesn't mind waiting a 6-12 months to get hold of the required hardware.

(07-Apr-2022, 05:41 PM)SnowLeopardFPV Wrote: Yeah. I'm now kind of beginning to get sick of waiting for KISS Ultra FC's to come into stock and then be quick enough to actually grab one of the limited number available from the only vendor in Europe who will sell to a UK buyer. It also makes you wonder how long your quad will be out of action for if the FC dies and you then have to join the bun fight again trying to get hold of a replacement FC. It seemed like a nice idea but I think I might just give up on building a KISS quad and stick with Betaflight hardware for my Apex 5" frame. It's a shame, but until Alex gets his manufacturing priorities in order and ramps up production (which is something he sounds disinterested in doing), it seems that KISS hardware is probably only for the hardcore KISS fanboys who refuse to fly anything else, or for someone that has the patience of a saint who doesn't mind waiting a 6-12 months to get hold of the required hardware.

If you're really hard up for the KISS experience, I would recommend the Fettec G4 with stock firmware.  Far more readily available and flies well.  Purists will say it's not KISS but it uses the same configurator.