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shuriken x1 motor problems - faulty esc's? Kingkong 90GT problems..
#1
Hi everyone, hello Oscar,

I'm a newbee and I have already spent 2 sleepless nights over my quad problems. They have developed into such a great frustration that I'm close to selling the whole stuff.., in brief:
Bought a Taranis in Switzerland (..so EU LBT version), but the Kingkong 90GT and now the shuriken x1 over banggood. None of them work.
I've flashed my Taranis X9D plus to international version (..because of the D8 protocol for the ac800 rx of the 90GT) and got it to work while connected to the pc (channels are moving correctly etc.), even bound to the RC, but when I plug in the whole thing without pc, the RX of the 90GT shows solid light, but nothing at all happens. No arming, nothing.
Turned over to the Shuriken X1, I got to bind and set up, and could even arm,
but when I touch the throttle just a little, the motors speed up to almost full throttle by themselves. 3 out of 4, that is. Motor No. 3 just stays around 1020-ish. (on the pc when checking motor control). When I power up manually over betaflight there seems to be no problem,
but "on itself" over the RC I encounter the same problem.
I can't put propellers on like this, I would immediately lose control over this cruise missile, I don't want to risk it b4 everything works properly.

I was looking on the net for some new firmware for the Kingkong receiver - the AC800, but there doesn't seem to exist anything.
I've flashed the XJT module as well. betaflight & FW are 2.1.9, bootloader 2.1.6
Do I need to update the bootloader?

I'm waiting for a new AC800 receiver that I ordered,
but since the whole thing doesn't work with the Shuriken either, I don't know what to try next.
I was hoping to get some relax & distraction from a very intense time at work with my quads,
but at the moment they just frustrate me and have me turn up at work with a blatant lack of sleep. *darn..

Does anybody know who I can turn to? Here in Switzerland things are moving only very slowly and along standard paths,
there is nobody familiar either with the Shuriken or the 90GT.
Make a kid happy and sell off the whole stuff?
I reeeeaaaallllyyyy would LOOOOOVE to get back into this hobby (was flying wings as a kid), it offers so many possibilities that I could imagine spending unreasonable amounts of time in it ;-),
but the God of FPV quads doesn't seem to want me.
Just got an XM+ receiver today - should I try with that?
I somehow fear that there's something wrong with my Taranis..

Any suggestions?
Otherwise there'll be a whole lot of equipment available for sale, soon..

*sniff,
Emanuele

P.S.: All simulator settings got messed up as well, so I can't even run the simulator, at the moment. *geehh, that really hurts!
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#2
..while waiting for my other orders, I am putting all my hopes into my first "real build"! If that one will work, I'll dismantle both 90GT & Shuriken, if noone wants them like that.. What a crappy start into the hobby, honestly..
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#3
If your channels are moving correctly in the receiver tab of BF, I don't think the problem is your Taranis. On the Shuriken, did you calibrate the ESCs? On the X90, you might check the min_command, min_check settings versus the lower endpoint of the throttle output.

See "Throttle settings and their interaction" (including the videos) in this doc: https://github.com/martinbudden/betaflig...ontrols.md

That's where I would start anyway.
[-] The following 1 user Likes sloscotty's post:
  • campagnium
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#4
Let's try to solve one thing at a time. As I'm sure you understand, a logical and structured approach is required.

For both quads, the first thing you must do when setting up the receiver is to ensure that your channels (as observed in the Receiver tab) range from 1000 to 2000 and that the pitch, yaw and roll channels are at 1500 when the sticks are centred. You should use your radio's travel adjust and subtrim functions to achieve these values.

This may account for why you cannot arm the 90GT.

With your Shuriken, you are not experiencing anything unusual.

If you arm the quad, you make it ready to fly and the PID controller is activated. The PID controller will try to fly the quad. Because there are no propellers, no movement takes place. However, the PID controller will be telling the craft to correct its attitude to match what the gyro and the sticks on the radio are telling it to do. So it starts to increase the power to the correct motors to implement the current commands. Instead of seeing the expected movement from the gyro, nothing happens, so it tries harder. Still nothing happens and the PID controller raises the speed of the motors more and more. As you can imagine, this is the equivalent of ignoring someone who is trying to tell you something. They'll assume you didn't hear what they said and begin to raise their voice. Soon, they'll be shouting at you!

The only testing you should be doing on the bench with no propellers is via the motors tab. You should check that the correct motor spins when you raise the throttle signal for that individual motor and you should check that it spins in the correct direction. This is sufficient to confirm that the motors and ESCs are correctly connected to the flight controller. Arming is something you do when you are ready to fly and not to test the quad.

If you have not set the channel ranges correctly before, do it now and then re-calibrate your ESCs. They need to be taught the range that the flight controller will use to talk to them. Once you have done that and verified that the motors spin correctly, put propellers on, go outside and try to fly!

There may be other fine details about calibration and setting your minimum throttle value that need to be investigated, but I hope you've already read about that and know what to do.
[-] The following 2 users Like unseen's post:
  • Oscar, campagnium
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#5
(21-Mar-2017, 10:40 AM)unseen Wrote: Let's try to solve one thing at a time. As I'm sure you understand, a logical and structured approach is required.

For both quads, the first thing you must do when setting up the receiver is to ensure that your channels (as observed in the Receiver tab) range from 1000 to 2000 and that the pitch, yaw and roll channels are at 1500 when the sticks are centred. You should use your radio's travel adjust and subtrim functions to achieve these values.

This may account for why you cannot arm the 90GT.

With your Shuriken, you are not experiencing anything unusual.

If you arm the quad, you make it ready to fly and the PID controller is activated. The PID controller will try to fly the quad. Because there are no propellers, no movement takes place. However, the PID controller will be telling the craft to correct its attitude to match what the gyro and the sticks on the radio are telling it to do. So it starts to increase the power to the correct motors to implement the current commands. Instead of seeing the expected movement from the gyro, nothing happens, so it tries harder. Still nothing happens and the PID controller raises the speed of the motors more and more. As you can imagine, this is the equivalent of ignoring someone who is trying to tell you something. They'll assume you didn't hear what they said and begin to raise their voice. Soon, they'll be shouting at you!

The only testing you should be doing on the bench with no propellers is via the motors tab. You should check that the correct motor spins when you raise the throttle signal for that individual motor and you should check that it spins in the correct direction. This is sufficient to confirm that the motors and ESCs are correctly connected to the flight controller. Arming is something you do when you are ready to fly and not to test the quad.

If you have not set the channel ranges correctly before, do it now and then re-calibrate your ESCs. They need to be taught the range that the flight controller will use to talk to them. Once you have done that and verified that the motors spin correctly, put propellers on, go outside and try to fly!

There may be other fine details about calibration and setting your minimum throttle value that need to be investigated, but I hope you've already read about that and know what to do.
Geehh, Mik,
that's so sweet of you taking the time to txt me that extensively! I'm on to your cooking recipe right now, will let you know 'bout the results. So far, there's already one: Gained confidence and motivation. Thanks to you.
Was suspecting something like the "resonance-catastrophe" you mentioned (read-set-conflict esc without propellers..), as the acceleration was so linear (..factor involved..)
Since it was like 2 a.m., my judgement was a little dreamy, but now I'm highly motivated and have a whole bunch of fresh frustration tolerance to waste,
THANK YOU
[-] The following 1 user Likes campagnium's post:
  • unseen
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#6
(21-Mar-2017, 10:33 AM)sloscotty Wrote: If your channels are moving correctly in the receiver tab of BF, I don't think the problem is your Taranis. On the Shuriken, did you calibrate the ESCs?  On the X90, you might check the min_command, min_check settings versus the lower endpoint of the throttle output.

See "Throttle settings and their interaction" (including the videos) in this doc: https://github.com/martinbudden/betaflig...ontrols.md

That's where I would start anyway.

Grazie mille! ;-)
I'm on it right now - will report asap.
Let's munch some RF.. Popcorn
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#7
Oookaayyy guys,
I've been messing around a while with flashing the 90GT's FC (betaflight 3.1.6 at first, couldn't connect, now beta 3.1.5, still can't connect :-)
and despite everything got worse, I feel like I made some progress. Funny, huh?
I made sure I have all the drivers for betaflight and restarted my pc. Flashing FC successful (..goal, ultimately, was to get through to the esc's..)
I had adapted the throttle (..and the other) settings before flashing, and connected to the pc everything seemed to work fine,
but when trying to start up, the usual silence and non-reaction from the 90GT.
I figured that the (updated) open tx version on my taranis x9dp was incompatible with the betaflight version they had delivered. Did backup the installed settings, but didn't check on the version, *eehhrmmm..
However, now I can't connect to betaflight. It says it successfully opens the serial port, but nothing happens on the program except that after a couple of moments it closes the serial port again.
I'm not sure whether I need to flash something else onto the FC (..the drivers for sbus-communication? but how? Tried with Zadig but won't work.
Going to bed now, letting the experience sink into my muscle memory (*haaaaahhh... :o):o)
Hope to catch you tomorrow! - let's see if we can get this little bugger into the air. If I will succeed, the moment of takeoff will be a bloody orgasm..
Have a good start into the day, everyone!

Besos y abrazos,
Emanuele
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#8
*ooopphhh, sometimes I really wish I was a quitter.
My guess at the moment is that I've additionally screwed up the drivers on my pc:
In Zadig, I just can't get the stm32-whatever driver installed (running windows 10), there's no stm32 on the list. I've tried my only given option, the silab driver, but it doesn't do the trick. Betaflight is able to open the port, but it disconnects after the usual few seconds. So guess it's not the connection, but the driver. Just can't find any stm32-version for windows 10 that would install (got the en-stsw-stm32102 zip-file with the vcp driver, but zadig did not show anything else but the silab one. Now I'm overtired and don't really know what I've deinstalled, since zadig is showing only wireless interface 0-2.
I'm really pushing myself into believing that this is funny, as the accentuation of my lack of sleep & admitting my major screw-up not really is. One just has to love this windows..
Any suggestions how to hammer that bloody stm32-file into Zadig?
Aaahh, I'm so much enjoying feeling like an idiot.. ;-)

..NOW I'm finally off to bed, I'll be operating in 4 1/2 hours from now. Trying to be a little responsible while thinking of ports, FC's and Rx's...
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#9
This kind of driver horror is why I dumped Windows for Linux a long time ago...

ImpulseRC put out a "driver fixer" which by all accounts has helped many. You can download it here: https://impulserc.blob.core.windows.net/..._Fixer.exe

For flashing the flight controller on your GT90, set the Betaflight flash settings like this:

[Image: FlashFW_zpsh033zman.png]

And then, while holding the BOOT button on the flight controller down, plug your USB cable into the flight controller. That should immediately start flashing Betaflight. Don't worry if the verify step fails.
[-] The following 1 user Likes unseen's post:
  • campagnium
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#10
(22-Mar-2017, 10:08 AM)unseen Wrote: This kind of driver horror is why I dumped Windows for Linux a long time ago...

ImpulseRC put out a "driver fixer" which by all accounts has helped many. You can download it here: https://impulserc.blob.core.windows.net/..._Fixer.exe

For flashing the flight controller on your GT90, set the Betaflight flash settings like this:

[Image: FlashFW_zpsh033zman.png]

And then, while holding the BOOT button on the flight controller down, plug your USB cable into the flight controller. That should immediately start flashing Betaflight. Don't worry if the verify step fails.

Thank you, my Dear!
..unluckily, the App cannot find my FC.. Cry
I know, I know about Windows - it's more of a "quilt" than an OS, just upgraded and patched stuff from the 90's, has not really evolved since. I'm glancing over at Mac already for a while now, too bad my entire working surface is on Windows - but since I'm sporting already 2 pc's and 2 laptops, an additional one that actually works (..setting up a port on Mac is incomparably easier on Mac OS than Windows, tried w a friend's laptop) wouldn't be bad.. Choosing the "right Mac" is about as easy as choosing the right FPV goggles, though ROFL
Thanks again and "squeeze",
hasta priesto!
Emanuele
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#11
[Image: eMvUwvbl.jpg]
Heya, fellow frustration-tolerance-aerodynamic-rc-athletes,
I'll be calling it a day a bit earlier today, but I think I found out a couple of things about my Kingkong 90GT-problem:

1. Windows is truly, madly, deeply C-R-A-P. Had to patch&update&reboot&update&patch&etc. ad nauseam until I got my connection to the FC back. (..and I did all this twice - to my laptop and to my pc, just to make sure it wasn't some built-in error..)
2. Before that, I wanted to make sure my RC is working, and I could connect it to an Eachine 010 (..of my secretary  Big Grin), which is quite weak on the throttle, but otherwise fun to fly LOS. (Sorry Oscar, no alternatives here..) That was my first real-world-taranis-experience, luv'd it! Big Grin
3. I connected betaflight to another FC that I just got today (itching fingers for the upcoming build..), and it worked just fine. So the pc side is alright, or am I forgetting something?
4. Well, funny enough, I could not get any signal out of my AC 800 receiver. I had managed to get colored rulers working on betaflight 2 days ago, but tonight there was no chance. I hoped it would be the receiver (..which already had been discussed here & ruled out, but I really don't know what else to do..), so I swapped it for a XM+ receiver. - Hence the picture, I was worried about the brute clamping force of the soldering help, so I used some plastic tweezers to soften the grip. How do you guys do it? I'll get some silicone tubing tomorrow for that purpose which is lying around in my practice, but I still worry about the crushing force..
The XM+ receiver would bind (green solid led), but still no signals onto the FC rulers on betaflight. I had done the sbus inversion on the CLI like described on one of Oscar's FPV-bible posts.. (*bow..)
Still no signal or movement on the rulers.

*yawnnn, that was it for today. This Kingkong 90GT is such a neat little thing, and it kills me to just watch it lying around. I don't imagine how a kid would feel who got this as a present and... Poop High Five Thinking
Where am I forgetting something? Voltage too low? I mean, it's just 2s, but it doesn't matter on the BEC, no? Still enough for the 5V..

The satisfaction I got from the brief Eachine010-flight will keep me going for a while, but I'm not sure how long I am going to fiddle around with this 90GT-mystery. I feel decerebrated/lobotomized and depraved of my every proficiency, when working at it.
Guess I would have already completed an independent build of comparable size. I'll be looking around for some small frame to transfer the 90GT's components to - bit by bit, always checking on the function of the system. I feel much more comfortable when I know exactly what is installed where and how, sort of a map in my mind of how the whole thing works. Much less of a blackbox like some (supposed..) PNP. Will never buy some ready-made stuff again, guess that's not for me...

Thanks in advance for your oh-so appreciated help!!
*tigerhug,
Emanuele

[Image: 90aKGaul.jpg]
*oups, I meant this picture..
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#12
..I like the thought of a long-range Rx on this tiny quad a lot! - I'm dreaming of flying around buildings & trees in the center of the town I live, like on early sunday morning, when noone's around. *geeehhh, what obscene fun!!...
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#13
The thing about using the helping hands is that you shouldn't grip any components with the jaws of the clips, only the PCB itself or some other part that won't be harmed by being gripped.

If your receiver powers up and shows a solid LED when your turn your radio on, then you must have a configuration problem. Show us how you have connected things, how you have configured your ports in Betaflight and how you have configured the receiver.

Also, you do not need to (and indeed shouldn't) enable sbus_inversion on this flight controller.
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#14
I'm just partially quad-blind, as it seems...
..SHURIKEN MAIDEN TODAY!! (..okay, just LOS, but for me it's already a lot..)
Went almost too easy, I have to admit: After all the pull-and-tear with the 90GT, my expectations were close to 0°Kelvin - "it won't work anyway, but maybe we can learn something along the way without bursting out in flames or entirely thrashing the nice little thing..
The relentless lessons (..learned? let's wait with that assumption ;-) on the 90GT got me somewhat proficient with all the setup-stuff (*oophh, I really wouldn't want to bother you guys overtly with my clumsy attempts..). The esc's were a little "far apart", but that went down soo easy!
That thing is agile, *geehh!! It still behaves a little weird around low to middle revs (..do you call that jitter? It's audible that at least one motor does not run smoothly, but since it was a little windy I didn't really notice from the control..), but - *Hey!, I was up in the air with it and brought it down without destroying it (..just smoothing one propeller's edges a bit :-), I'm easy to please at the moment, *haahh..
The 90GT remains a mystery. I still think I'll start a replacement built, I so don't trust this on-and-off-reception-arm-no-arm-thang, if this happens in mid-air? (..and of course it will, Murphy takes no vacations..)
*oophh!!, relieved!
My heartfelt gratitude to Unseen, Sloscotty, EchoBravo and all the Post-writers: I owe you this!
Enjoy the weekend..

Emanuele
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#15
(25-Mar-2017, 07:58 PM)campagnium Wrote: [Image: Fdrr40Ql.jpg]
Still in one piece - I'm just partially quad-blind, as it seems...
..SHURIKEN MAIDEN TODAY!! (..okay, just LOS, but for me it's already a lot..)
Went almost too easy, I have to admit: After all the pull-and-tear with the 90GT, my expectations were close to 0°Kelvin - "it won't work anyway, but maybe we can learn something along the way without bursting out in flames or entirely thrashing the nice little thing..
The relentless lessons (..learned? let's wait with that assumption ;-) on the 90GT got me somewhat proficient with all the setup-stuff (*oophh, I really wouldn't want to bother you guys overtly with my clumsy attempts..). The esc's were a little "far apart", but that went down soo easy!
That thing is agile, *geehh!! It still behaves a little weird around low to middle revs (..do you call that jitter? It's audible that at least one motor does not run smoothly, but since it was a little windy I didn't really notice from the control..), but - *Hey!, I was up in the air with it and brought it down without destroying it (..just smoothing one propeller's edges a bit :-), I'm easy to please at the moment, *haahh..
The 90GT remains a mystery. I still think I'll start a replacement built, I so don't trust this on-and-off-reception-arm-no-arm-thang, if this happens in mid-air? (..and of course it will, Murphy takes no vacations..)
*oophh!!, relieved!
My heartfelt gratitude to Unseen, Sloscotty, EchoBravo and all the Post-writers: I owe you this!
Enjoy the weekend..

Emanuele
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