Posts: 421 Threads: 46 Likes Received: 93 in 82 posts Likes Given: 182 Joined: Oct 2023 Reputation: 3 I have converted several BetaFPV and Happymodel whoops to Walksnail recently. In every case it seems like my range has decreased. With the short enameled wire antennas on these whoop boards range was never much but now I can't comfortably work the edges of my favorite park. I saw (but now can't find) a post about putting a better antenna on these whoop boards. Or maybe the idea was an extension to get the antenna further away from the FC/VTX stack? I would like to try that. • Posts: 2,401 Threads: 74 Likes Received: 1,348 in 1,005 posts Likes Given: 782 Joined: Apr 2022 Reputation: 41 So your digital signal is swamping out your Rx signal? If it's ELRS and your handset supports more output power, set it maximum and leave dynamic on. If it's the other way, ie, loss of video, then yes, get a better antenna or jack the output power up to max. Also try and keep both antennas as far away from each other and as far away from the electronic and frame (if CF) as you can. Try Not, Do or Do Not - Yoda • Posts: 281 Threads: 25 Likes Received: 140 in 109 posts Likes Given: 91 Joined: May 2023 Reputation: 3 Could try some faraday cloth tape between stuff? https://www.amazon.com/s?k=faraday+cloth+tape • Posts: 421 Threads: 46 Likes Received: 93 in 82 posts Likes Given: 182 Joined: Oct 2023 Reputation: 3 I thought it might be Because the AIO is not very dense and is maybe pretty transparent to the little enameled wire antenna most of these use. But then putting a Walksnail board which seems more dense directly above it may be acting as a shield, or maybe the Walksnail board is emitting RF noise or something that affects the ELRS Rx in the AIO. I really don't know. But it certainly seems like the range has decreased. I could certainly just run my Tx at 1W and increase the range that way. But I'll also keep searching for improved antennas for this kind of Tiny Whoop AIO ELRS Rx. • Posts: 2,401 Threads: 74 Likes Received: 1,348 in 1,005 posts Likes Given: 782 Joined: Apr 2022 Reputation: 41 The thing is, the Rx will only run at 1W if it needs to, when running dynamic. if you have good LoS it will attempt to use the lowest power level to achieve the best LQ. In general, only flying behind big concrete buildings will send it all the way up. Most of the time it will probably not go above 250mW. I run mine on 250mW or 500mW, but leave dynamic on and I have flown my old Meteor85 out about a km without issue in an environment with trees, so I would have thought you shouldn't have any issue. But if it's one of those enamel wire antennas, try and route it down to the bottom of the quad and use a zip tie to hold it straight down away from the frame, if you can't send it up. Find an orientation that removes it from the influence of the vtx and frame (easier said than done). Try Not, Do or Do Not - Yoda Posts: 94 Threads: 7 Likes Received: 41 in 34 posts Likes Given: 26 Joined: Apr 2022 Reputation: 2 I have converted over quite a number of my quads and micros over to Walksnail and have not noticed any decline in the range as with ELRS. What do you have set for your Packet Rate? I am running 250Hz, and Telem Ratio 1:8 I have my radio set to TX Power 500mW. and I have Dynamic Power switched off. Those copper antennas, they could be difficult to replace, as they are soldered to the AIO boards, and if replaced an U.FL connector would have to be soldered in place. I will be interested in how people would do this. Posts: 558 Threads: 21 Likes Received: 303 in 221 posts Likes Given: 319 Joined: Jan 2023 Reputation: 6 Definitely don’t sandwich antennas between boards in a stack. In general, antennas need open air to function properly. _____________________________________ Walksnail / Avatar … It’s better than analog ! Posts: 421 Threads: 46 Likes Received: 93 in 82 posts Likes Given: 182 Joined: Oct 2023 Reputation: 3 I went through all of my BNF small quads, both Walksnail and analog VTX, but all ELRS, and found a lot of differences in Rx antennas. I checked and all of them are set to Packet Rate: 500 Hz (-105dbm) Telemetry ratio: Std (1:128) Tx power is 500mW, Dynamic OFF so I could certainly play with those values. If I went to the full 1W Tx power I think I would switch to Dynamic ON. Two quads have the little ELRS "box" antennas: Mobula 65 and Fractal 75 they can't be altered and are analog VTX. Another that can't be altered is a Flywoo Nano Baby 1s Walksnail which has a dipole ELRS antenna. The three that can be altered are a Mobilite 75 Walksnail, Beta FPV HX115SE Walksnail, and BetaFPV Meteor 75 analog. These all have the short enamel wire ELRS antennas and are the ones I am concerned about that can have their antennas placed any way I want. The Mobilite 75 is pretty obviously a bad arrangement as the antenna is sandwiched between the FC and Walksnail boards. The HX115SE (3" 2s) the antenna is routed vertically by me alongside the canopy which means it runs around the Walksnail VTX and beside the camera. The analog Meteor 75 the wire runs over the top of the FC, but range on that is OK. Options for antenna placement are vertical or horizontal either alongside or over the FC or out away from the electronics? I found the article about antennas but it was Oscar L. and he was talking about replacing VTX whip antennas so that was confusion on my part. As always any advice is welcome Then I will go out and be a little scientific about testing the results. • Posts: 1,737 Threads: 60 Likes Received: 1,019 in 735 posts Likes Given: 96 Joined: Jan 2023 Reputation: 52 11-Feb-2024, 07:32 PM (This post was last modified: 12-Feb-2024, 04:36 AM by mstc.) I've had a failsafe at close range with these crummy enamel wire antennas on a WS build, I have since changed to 150hz (edit: not 100) and not experienced any failsafes again (but also have not flown as much either). For those antennas though they will not work well sandwiched between boards, you need to pull them out to the side and try to stick them up in open space. If they are at risk to contact the boards, I will just put on a little shrink tube around where it might touch to be extra safe. It does make it more susceptible to catching/damage in crashes, so if you crash a lot, then maybe consider soldering on a t-dipole antenna instead. As for ceramic "box" antennas, those can be replaced too if you wanted to do so. Note down the active corner (where the antenna trace runs down to), you can then heat to remove it or gently crush off the top first. Cleanup and solder the antenna to the active pad you identified. Not too difficult, but only if you are comfortable desoldering/soldering on tightly packed boards. But I found ceramic towers usually perform well enough for medium range, of course not as good as the t-dipoles. • Posts: 2,401 Threads: 74 Likes Received: 1,348 in 1,005 posts Likes Given: 782 Joined: Apr 2022 Reputation: 41 I use 250Hz, 1:32, 500mW or 250mW, Dynamic On. Furthest I've been out on those settings is 1km (that was on 250mW / Dynamic On). But, I don't buy those enamel wire FC's. I do have two of them and I have had them out a couple hundred metres, but I only really use the FC's that use external dipole antennas. I've had no issues using the dipole/ ufl FC's since I started (and had a few of them). Try Not, Do or Do Not - Yoda • Posts: 421 Threads: 46 Likes Received: 93 in 82 posts Likes Given: 182 Joined: Oct 2023 Reputation: 3 @mstc: "maybe consider soldering on a t-dipole antenna instead" I will look in to this for my three quads that have those short enameled wire antennas. I have no problem with small soldering. Obviously I can reduce from 500Hz Packet rate and 1:128 telemetry ratio. I'll start with 250Hz and 1:32. I will try to learn more about what those numbers mean to range. As for Dynamic Power that is a conundrum. I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere not to use it but obviously some of you do and it is designed to help with range when needed so why not use it... Thanks! • Posts: 94 Threads: 7 Likes Received: 41 in 34 posts Likes Given: 26 Joined: Apr 2022 Reputation: 2 Defiantly play with Radio's ELRS settings , as mentioned I have settled on 250Hz, and Telemetry Ratio 1:8 -- I did experiment with 150Hz and 250Hz and I can not tell the difference -- I must be a crap pilot maybe one has to be a good pilot to feel the difference. Remember there also presets in Betaflight for ExpressLRS the 150Hz, 250Hz, 500Hz etc. I do know one way you can destroy you range, and that is to have "RSSI (Signal Strength)" enabled in the Receiver tab in Betaflight -- Yes I have done that. If I remember when flying my little LR Rekon35 I will use 150Hz, but I often forget to change that before I fly. Have a play, as it's much easier changing your settings than modifying your antenna setups on your whoops as there is so little space to play with, and the micro soldering sucks. • Posts: 1,737 Threads: 60 Likes Received: 1,019 in 735 posts Likes Given: 96 Joined: Jan 2023 Reputation: 52 12-Feb-2024, 04:29 AM (This post was last modified: 12-Feb-2024, 04:31 AM by mstc.) I am pretty sure 99% of the pilots cannot tell any difference between a 1ms and 7ms rc link, but maybe psychologically that would give racers a placebo advantage. However look at the sensitivity limit, by dropping from 500hz to 150hz mode, you increase the sensitivity limit from -104 dbm to -112 dbm, that is more than 6x increase!!!! To me that's a no brainer. I guess you could achieve the same with 200hz mode, but I am still on ELRS2 and that mode is not available. • |