(12-Mar-2017, 11:14 PM)Hank Deucker Wrote: fftunes recommends multiple profiles and sent a how to with stick commands. I fly mode 1 (thr on the RH stick) thus the commands don't work I am sure there is a list of mode 1 commands but my searches have failed to find one.

I listed it by actual axis functions (throttle yaw roll pitch), not sticks specifically, so should be clear for any stick mode... maybe read it again, and also make sure that a) it is disarmed and b) your stick values in receiver tab can reach below 1100 and above 1900 (min_check & max_check), otherwise you can't do any stick commands.

(13-Mar-2017, 10:18 AM)fftunes Wrote: I listed it by actual axis functions (throttle yaw roll pitch), not sticks specifically, so should be clear for any stick mode... maybe read it again, and also make sure that a) it is disarmed and b) your stick values in receiver tab can reach below 1100 and above 1900 (min_check & max_check), otherwise you can't do any stick commands.

Thanks I will give it another go after I check the max and min function in Betaflight, I know the throttle is OK but I have not checked yaw roll and pitch, bit silly and slow on my part.

I have attempted to flash version 3.1.6 without success. The report states "No response from the bootloader, progamming: FAILED. I have attempted the Recovery/ Lost communications routine a number of times without success. Any suggestions anyone?

Thanks

That's odd. You should be able to flash by using the boot button.

Hold the boot button down while plugging in the USB cable. Set manual baud rate to 256000, select "no reboot sequence" and select "full chip erase". Then choose the SPRACINGF3 target and hit flash.

Thanks unseen, I discovered the magic swear word combination this afternoon and I was able to flash the firmware, I will test fly it tomorrow but the weather forecast is for rain so it may have to wait for a day or two. That is the cycle of life when one lives on a farm.

"Magic swear word combination"

I'm still waiting for it to warm up some more here and stop blowing a gale!

Hello Hank, I have a ripafire for 450 mm frame that I have been attempting to get fly. And it sounds like my issues are the same as yours I'm using 8045 propellers and they are just not able to make the craft a fly without looking like a drunken sailor. I can say that I was able to get it to where it looked decidedly better whenever I had a triple sided prop compared to a double-sided prop. I believe either a triple sided prop, or even a quadruple sided prop would be good for this kind of build maybe stick with the 8 inch just use a triple 8040 or possibly even a quadruple sided prop and see if it's able to fly better. Sadly, I abandoned my build on the 450 quad because of the lack of parts availability, especially propellers,for that size of quad. Larger quads are just not popular so I decided to work on a 210 mm wide quad instead. Parts are more prevalent and I'm able to have a much longer list of things to choose from. Hope this helps!

Thanks Jk007,  I will take your advice on board when time permits  We have been having some rough weather but luckily we missed the worst part so we call ourselves lucky. I hope to get time with the whole thing later in the week, I still have to spend sometime with the quad connected to the computer to set the motors up again. I will post the results of the first test flight. I have tried a smaller copter, one of my mates fleet, and it is just too fast for an old codger like me.

I don't really have experience with 3.1.6 but my general advice will be the same - go low with the dterm setpoint weight (the upper slider on PID page).

Also don't go too low on min_throttle (on configuration page). If it's too low, these large props will give it a hard time to rev up when it's needed.

I posted a reply yesterday but it seems to have disappeared into the ether. I finally got around to a test flight and it was by my experience the best so far. It is not perfect and needs further tuning the main concern is that it flies off in random directions and never stays steady. This behaviour is different to wallowing around like a drunken person. I think I need help with the Rate Profile. I have studied a good youtube video on the issue but I can't find it again for more viewing, is there anyone who can help with this?

Rc_rate is the linear component and basically used to adjust sensitivity around mid-stick.
Srate is the exponential component and has more influence on large stick inputs.
Expo softens the inputs at mid-stick.

You can watch the curves while adjusting those values to estimate their effect, and use the realtime preview and your transmitter to see how it would behave in rate mode.

However, for angle mode i think there are additional values to adjust... Don't remember exactly right now but it's something like angle limit and sensitivity i think.

But drifting in random directions in angle mode could have several causes... PID as well as vibrations messing up the acc sensor. As a first test you could try to increase i-term. On my quads i also had to increase setpoint transition (the lower slider) to get better stability around mid-stick.

Thanks again fftunes, I will act on all the suggestions you have put forward and report back. I have found a couple of videos on RC rates and also on on D term, I will study them later tonight  I have disabled the Barometer, was advised to do this while tuning my PIDs and I was supposed to do it in Air Mode. Air Mode always ends up with the quad hitting the ground after about 10 to 15 seconds of flight 
I have to dash down to the shed to charge batteries for model flying at the club tomorrow 

Be aware that no craft that is using manual control will actually just hover in place with no input from the controls.

Wind and turbulence will cause the craft to drift in random directions and if you are closer to the ground than a few metres with something as large as a 500mm quad, the turbulent air from the propellers will affect the quad considerably - this is called 'ground effect'. Holding a quad in a perfect hover is actually very difficult and your fingers will need to be making constant small movements on the sticks to hold the craft's position in the air.

I think you might have some terminology confused. Tuning should be done in acro mode. Acro mode is also called rate mode which I think is more descriptive. In rate mode, your stick inputs control how quickly the craft rotates on the particular axis. In other words, it controls the rate of rotation around the axis. In self levelling mode or angle mode, the sticks control what angle the pitch and roll axes should hold. The yaw axis is always a rate mode axis, regardless of if you are in rate or angle mode. Horizon mode is a combination of angle and rate modes. When the sticks are close to the centre, the craft behaves as if it is in angle mode. When the sticks are at the extremes of travel, the craft behaves as if it is in rate mode and this allows you to do 360 degree rotations on the axis while the stick is at the extreme.

Air mode is a feature that can be added to any of the basic flight modes. It is not a flight mode in itself and what it does is enable the PID controller to have more authority at low throttle. This helps with doing acrobatics and other advanced moves, especially if the craft is inverted - you don't want to raise the throttle when inverted as the ground will be getting closer faster than you want!

I just want to add a couple of notes on acro vs self-leveling modes. I tend to also differentiate these by what happens when I release stick input. In self-leveling modes, when I release pressure on the stick, allowing the springs to return them to neutral (in pitch and roll), the craft tries to return to level. In acro mode, if I do the same thing, the craft continues moving with its current "attitude" until I apply other input. For example in acro, if I put it in a 30 degree angle pitched forward, and release the stick, it will tend to stay in that 30 degree pitched-forward attitude until I manually bring it back. (This is also why acro mode is sometimes called manual mode.) This is also one reason it is recommended to learn acro mode as early as possible. If you fly only self-level modes for awhile, it's more difficult to get out of the habit of letting the craft "right" itself.

thanks for the two replies one from unseen the other from sloscotty
Both are quite dense in content and I need to study them before I can comment/act on either. I apologies that I will not have time to fully digest them till the Easter brake but I do not want contributors to think I am ignoring them. Life can be like that.
How can one attache a blackbox file (Betaflight) I get a message the type of file that you attached is not allowed ?
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