Posts: 947 Threads: 66 Likes Received: 350 in 248 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Apr 2016 Reputation: 34 28-Jun-2016, 07:23 PM (This post was last modified: 15-Aug-2016, 07:45 AM by oyvinla.) I'm having some trouble tuning my Lisam LS210 with Beerotor F3 (BF2.8.1), Littlebee 20A (BLheli 14.6) and 2205 Kingkong motors (I changed out my 2204 Sunnysky with the kingkong 2205 since I tought they were causing vibrations). I get a lot of vibrations during mid throttle flying. I have tried lowering the P and D, but then it is not flying good at all. I'm flying Betaflight 2.8.1 with stock PIDs except I on pitch. For me, it looks like the D is too high on both roll and pitch when looking at the blackbox log, but I have tried lowering the D to 5, but it is still P-term Oscillations. When lowering P, the quad feels sluggish. I feel I'm missing out something here. I thought at first it was vibrations from the motors, since the vibrations have gotten worse, so I changed them. I also noticed that one of the ESCs where damaged, so this was also changed, but the vibrations are still there. It was flying good on stock PIDs on earlier Betaflight releases. I only had to increase I-gain on pitch. Blackbox log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wbkvkqb6vhxb6h...1.TXT?dl=0 Code: Entering CLI Mode, type 'exit' to return, or 'help'
# dump
# version
# BetaFlight/SPRACINGF3 2.8.1 Jun 19 2016 / 20:31:49 (0c5ea0f)
# dump master
# mixer
mixer CUSTOM
mmix reset
mmix 0 1.000 -1.000 0.771 -1.000
mmix 1 1.000 -1.000 -0.771 1.000
mmix 2 1.000 1.000 0.771 1.000
mmix 3 1.000 1.000 -0.771 -1.000
smix reset
# feature
feature -RX_PPM
feature -VBAT
feature -INFLIGHT_ACC_CAL
feature -RX_SERIAL
feature -MOTOR_STOP
feature -SERVO_TILT
feature -SOFTSERIAL
feature -GPS
feature -FAILSAFE
feature -SONAR
feature -TELEMETRY
feature -CURRENT_METER
feature -3D
feature -RX_PARALLEL_PWM
feature -RX_MSP
feature -RSSI_ADC
feature -LED_STRIP
feature -DISPLAY
feature -ONESHOT125
feature -BLACKBOX
feature -CHANNEL_FORWARDING
feature -TRANSPONDER
feature -AIRMODE
feature -SUPEREXPO_RATES
feature VBAT
feature RX_SERIAL
feature FAILSAFE
feature CURRENT_METER
feature LED_STRIP
feature ONESHOT125
feature BLACKBOX
feature AIRMODE
feature SUPEREXPO_RATES
# beeper
beeper GYRO_CALIBRATED
beeper RX_LOST
beeper RX_LOST_LANDING
beeper DISARMING
beeper ARMING
beeper ARMING_GPS_FIX
beeper BAT_CRIT_LOW
beeper BAT_LOW
beeper GPS_STATUS
beeper RX_SET
beeper ACC_CALIBRATION
beeper ACC_CALIBRATION_FAIL
beeper READY_BEEP
beeper MULTI_BEEPS
beeper DISARM_REPEAT
beeper ARMED
beeper SYSTEM_INIT
beeper ON_USB
# map
map AETR1234
# serial
serial 0 1 115200 57600 0 115200
serial 1 0 115200 57600 0 115200
serial 2 64 115200 57600 0 115200
# led
led 0 15,15:ES:IA:0
led 1 15,8:E:WF:0
led 2 15,7:E:WF:0
led 3 15,0:NE:IA:0
led 4 8,0:N:F:0
led 5 7,0:N:F:0
led 6 0,0:NW:IA:0
led 7 0,7:W:WF:0
led 8 0,8:W:WF:0
led 9 0,15:SW:IA:0
led 10 7,15:S:WF:0
led 11 8,15:S:WF:0
led 12 7,7:U:WF:0
led 13 8,7:U:WF:0
led 14 7,8:D:WF:0
led 15 8,8:D:WF:0
led 16 8,9::R:3
led 17 9,10::R:3
led 18 10,11::R:3
led 19 10,12::R:3
led 20 9,13::R:3
led 21 8,14::R:3
led 22 7,14::R:3
led 23 6,13::R:3
led 24 5,12::R:3
led 25 5,11::R:3
led 26 6,10::R:3
led 27 7,9::R:3
led 28 0,0:::0
led 29 0,0:::0
led 30 0,0:::0
led 31 0,0:::0
# color
color 0 0,0,0
color 1 0,255,255
color 2 0,0,255
color 3 30,0,255
color 4 60,0,255
color 5 90,0,255
color 6 120,0,255
color 7 150,0,255
color 8 180,0,255
color 9 210,0,255
color 10 240,0,255
color 11 270,0,255
color 12 300,0,255
color 13 330,0,255
color 14 0,0,0
color 15 0,0,0
# aux
aux 0 0 0 1550 2100
aux 1 12 0 1100 1500
aux 2 14 0 1750 2100
aux 3 25 1 1875 2100
aux 4 0 0 900 900
aux 5 0 0 900 900
aux 6 0 0 900 900
aux 7 0 0 900 900
aux 8 0 0 900 900
aux 9 0 0 900 900
aux 10 0 0 900 900
aux 11 0 0 900 900
aux 12 0 0 900 900
aux 13 0 0 900 900
aux 14 0 0 900 900
aux 15 0 0 900 900
aux 16 0 0 900 900
aux 17 0 0 900 900
aux 18 0 0 900 900
aux 19 0 0 900 900
# adjrange
adjrange 0 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 1 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 2 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 3 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 4 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 5 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 6 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 7 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 8 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 9 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 10 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 11 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 12 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 13 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 14 0 0 900 900 0 0
# rxrange
rxrange 0 1000 2000
rxrange 1 1000 2000
rxrange 2 1000 2000
rxrange 3 1000 2000
# servo
servo 0 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 1 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 2 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 3 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 4 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 5 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 6 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 7 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
set mid_rc = 1500
set min_check = 1100
set max_check = 1900
set rssi_channel = 0
set rssi_scale = 30
set rssi_ppm_invert = OFF
set input_filtering_mode = OFF
set roll_yaw_cam_mix_degrees = 0
set max_aux_channels = 6
set debug_mode = NONE
set min_throttle = 1020
set max_throttle = 2000
set min_command = 1000
set anti_desync_power_step = 0
set servo_center_pulse = 1500
set 3d_deadband_low = 1406
set 3d_deadband_high = 1514
set 3d_neutral = 1460
set 3d_deadband_throttle = 50
set unsynced_fast_pwm = OFF
set fast_pwm_protocol = ONESHOT125
set motor_pwm_rate = 400
set servo_pwm_rate = 50
set disarm_kill_switch = ON
set gyro_cal_on_first_arm = OFF
set auto_disarm_delay = 5
set small_angle = 25
set fixedwing_althold_dir = 1
set reboot_character = 82
set gps_provider = NMEA
set gps_sbas_mode = AUTO
set gps_auto_config = ON
set gps_auto_baud = OFF
set gps_wp_radius = 200
set nav_controls_heading = ON
set nav_speed_min = 100
set nav_speed_max = 300
set nav_slew_rate = 30
set serialrx_provider = IBUS
set sbus_inversion = ON
set spektrum_sat_bind = 0
set spektrum_sat_bind_autoreset = 1
set telemetry_switch = OFF
set telemetry_inversion = ON
set frsky_default_lattitude = 0.000
set frsky_default_longitude = 0.000
set frsky_coordinates_format = 0
set frsky_unit = IMPERIAL
set frsky_vfas_precision = 0
set frsky_vfas_cell_voltage = OFF
set hott_alarm_sound_interval = 5
set battery_capacity = 0
set vbat_scale = 208
set vbat_max_cell_voltage = 43
set vbat_min_cell_voltage = 33
set vbat_warning_cell_voltage = 35
set vbat_hysteresis = 1
set vbat_pid_compensation = OFF
set current_meter_scale = 380
set current_meter_offset = 0
set multiwii_current_meter_output = OFF
set current_meter_type = ADC
set align_gyro = DEFAULT
set align_acc = DEFAULT
set align_mag = DEFAULT
set align_board_roll = 0
set align_board_pitch = 0
set align_board_yaw = 0
set max_angle_inclination = 700
set gyro_lpf = OFF
set gyro_sync_denom = 4
set gyro_lowpass = 100
set moron_threshold = 32
set imu_dcm_kp = 2500
set imu_dcm_ki = 0
set alt_hold_deadband = 40
set alt_hold_fast_change = ON
set deadband = 0
set yaw_deadband = 0
set throttle_correction_value = 0
set throttle_correction_angle = 800
set yaw_control_direction = 1
set yaw_motor_direction = 1
set tri_unarmed_servo = ON
set servo_lowpass_freq = 400
set servo_lowpass_enable = OFF
set airmode_activate_throttle = 1350
set failsafe_delay = 10
set failsafe_off_delay = 10
set failsafe_throttle = 1000
set failsafe_kill_switch = OFF
set failsafe_throttle_low_delay = 100
set failsafe_procedure = OFF
set rx_min_usec = 885
set rx_max_usec = 2115
set gimbal_mode = NORMAL
set acc_hardware = AUTO
set acc_lpf_hz = 10.000
set accxy_deadband = 40
set accz_deadband = 40
set acc_unarmedcal = ON
set acc_trim_pitch = 0
set acc_trim_roll = 0
set baro_tab_size = 21
set baro_noise_lpf = 0.600
set baro_cf_vel = 0.985
set baro_cf_alt = 0.965
set baro_hardware = AUTO
set mag_hardware = AUTO
set mag_declination = 0
set pid_process_denom = 1
set blackbox_rate_num = 1
set blackbox_rate_denom = 2
set blackbox_device = SPIFLASH
set magzero_x = 0
set magzero_y = 0
set magzero_z = 0
set ledstrip_visual_beeper = OFF
# rxfail
rxfail 0 a
rxfail 1 a
rxfail 2 a
rxfail 3 a
rxfail 4 h
rxfail 5 h
rxfail 6 h
rxfail 7 h
rxfail 8 h
rxfail 9 h
rxfail 10 h
rxfail 11 h
rxfail 12 h
rxfail 13 h
rxfail 14 h
rxfail 15 h
rxfail 16 h
rxfail 17 h
# profile
profile 0
############################# PROFILE VALUES ####################################
set gps_pos_p = 15
set gps_pos_i = 0
set gps_pos_d = 0
set gps_posr_p = 34
set gps_posr_i = 14
set gps_posr_d = 53
set gps_nav_p = 25
set gps_nav_i = 33
set gps_nav_d = 83
set yaw_p_limit = 500
set dterm_lowpass = 100
set dynamic_iterm = ON
set iterm_ignore_threshold = 200
set yaw_iterm_ignore_threshold = 35
set yaw_lowpass = 80
set pid_controller = LUX
set p_pitch = 50
set i_pitch = 45
set d_pitch = 18
set p_roll = 45
set i_roll = 40
set d_roll = 18
set p_yaw = 90
set i_yaw = 45
set d_yaw = 20
set p_alt = 50
set i_alt = 0
set d_alt = 0
set p_level = 50
set i_level = 50
set d_level = 100
set p_vel = 55
set i_vel = 55
set d_vel = 75
rateprofile 0
# rateprofile
rateprofile 0
set rc_rate = 100
set rc_rate_yaw = 100
set rc_expo = 10
set rc_yaw_expo = 10
set thr_mid = 50
set thr_expo = 0
set roll_rate = 70
set pitch_rate = 70
set yaw_rate = 70
set tpa_rate = 20
set tpa_breakpoint = 1650
#
![[-]](https://intofpv.com/images/collapse.png) • Posts: 5,315 Threads: 672 Likes Received: 3,155 in 1,743 posts Likes Given: 2,030 Joined: Jan 2016 Reputation: 139 yea the oscillation mainly come from your P...
how is your FC mounted? check all scres and nuts are tightened probably... Also check the screws on the frame...
do you have some sort of rubber ring or washer you can put under and above your FC to reduce a bit of vibration maybe?
Your D is a bit noisy too, try to set dterm_lowpass = 60
I also think you drop roll P to 40, D increase to 22
your pitch P to 45, D increase to 26
try that and let me know • Posts: 947 Threads: 66 Likes Received: 350 in 248 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Apr 2016 Reputation: 34 (28-Jun-2016, 08:11 PM)Oscar Wrote: yea the oscillation mainly come from your P...
how is your FC mounted? check all scres and nuts are tightened probably... Also check the screws on the frame...
do you have some sort of rubber ring or washer you can put under and above your FC to reduce a bit of vibration maybe?
Your D is a bit noisy too, try to set dterm_lowpass = 60
I also think you drop roll P to 40, D increase to 22
your pitch P to 45, D increase to 26
try that and let me know The FC is mounted with nylon standoffs over the PDB which is mounted to the frame with nylon screws. The motor screws are thight, as well as the nylon screws to PDB and FC. The FC has been installed with o-rings, without any difference in vibrations. I will try as soon as I get off this bloody offshore rig! Can't fly here, but I guess that would be quite cool  • Posts: 5,315 Threads: 672 Likes Received: 3,155 in 1,743 posts Likes Given: 2,030 Joined: Jan 2016 Reputation: 139 (28-Jun-2016, 08:20 PM)oyvinla Wrote: The FC is mounted with nylon standoffs over the PDB which is mounted to the frame with nylon screws. The motor screws are thight, as well as the nylon screws to PDB and FC. The FC has been installed with o-rings, without any difference in vibrations.
I will try as soon as I get off this bloody offshore rig! Can't fly here, but I guess that would be quite cool LOL cool but risky, unless you are a good diver LOL • Posts: 947 Threads: 66 Likes Received: 350 in 248 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Apr 2016 Reputation: 34 Now I changed FC to a SPRacing F3 (guess its a clone from banggood) and it flies so much better with stock Betaflight PIDs. I even could turn up P I and D on the pitch axis. But now there is a different problem. From the last Blackbox log, you can see that the signal to ESC#1 is max, while the other ones are under 50% Is this a desync issue? HW: SPracing F3 clone Littlebee 20A Kingkong 2205 Dalprop 4045BN V2 Blackbox log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/irk8oomljiragu...2.TXT?dl=0 ![[Image: QA65k4G.png]](http://i.imgur.com/QA65k4G.png) • Posts: 5,315 Threads: 672 Likes Received: 3,155 in 1,743 posts Likes Given: 2,030 Joined: Jan 2016 Reputation: 139 Looks more like a ESC reboot or glitch to me... How did the quad react during that time? • Posts: 947 Threads: 66 Likes Received: 350 in 248 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Apr 2016 Reputation: 34 03-Jul-2016, 01:20 PM (This post was last modified: 03-Jul-2016, 02:05 PM by oyvinla.) I was doing a LOS punchout, so I saw the quad first lost throttle on motor 1, since it tilted a bit right and back. The controller quickly compensated for the three other motors. As soon as I let go of the throttle, everything was fine again until next punchout. It never fell out of the sky, just lost throttle and tilted a little bit. If the ESC rebooted, I would assume the quad would just flip over and hit the ground?
I just changed that ESC now, so we'll see how it goes
BTW I'm on BF 2.9.0 now
Edit:
I changed the ESC, but the problem was still there. Now I will try to change motor • Posts: 947 Threads: 66 Likes Received: 350 in 248 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Apr 2016 Reputation: 34 03-Jul-2016, 03:00 PM (This post was last modified: 03-Jul-2016, 03:08 PM by oyvinla.) Now I changed the motor, but now the problem is on motor 3. I'm running 4K/4K, so I will try to reduce to 2K/2K ![[Image: obPVn7Y.png]](http://i.imgur.com/obPVn7Y.png)
2K/2K fixed the problem, but the question now is why did it not work in 4K/4K? I'm running oneshot 125 • Posts: 5,315 Threads: 672 Likes Received: 3,155 in 1,743 posts Likes Given: 2,030 Joined: Jan 2016 Reputation: 139 Oh, you are using littlebee?
I don't know if this is something to do with how fast the FC is updating the ESC. Littlebees are using older generation of the Silabs chipset ie F330. The better MCU is the F396 such as DYS XM20A..
yea maybe a good idea to use lower PID loop for now as long as you are using littlebee ESC • Posts: 947 Threads: 66 Likes Received: 350 in 248 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Apr 2016 Reputation: 34 (03-Jul-2016, 10:30 PM)Oscar Wrote: Oh, you are using littlebee?
I don't know if this is something to do with how fast the FC is updating the ESC. Littlebees are using older generation of the Silabs chipset ie F330. The better MCU is the F396 such as DYS XM20A..
yea maybe a good idea to use lower PID loop for now as long as you are using littlebee ESC Thanks Oscar, I have the same feeling as you there. I will try to bump up the gyro update to 4K and keep the PID loop at 2K to see how it goes. The quad flies great now, so it could be that I just stick with 2K/2K. So the fix for my tuning problems in the start of the thread was actually to change FC from beerotor F3 to SPracing F3 clone. I guess there was just too much gyro noise on the beerotor FC or it did not go well with the lisam frame (I doubt this as I have had this thing flying good with previous Betaflight versions). I am currently building a new quad with leftover parts which I will mount the beerotor just to torture myself and see if I can get it to work. • Posts: 947 Threads: 66 Likes Received: 350 in 248 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Apr 2016 Reputation: 34 07-Jul-2016, 01:24 PM (This post was last modified: 07-Jul-2016, 01:25 PM by oyvinla.) The oscillations are back and the only change now is that I swapped out my camera from a Foxeer HS1177 to a Runcam HS1177.
The history is:
1. Lisam frame with Beerotor FC and Foxeer HS1177 - Flies great.
2. Lisam frame with Beerotor FC and Runcam HS1177 - I can't remember if this is when the video feed indicated that the quad was vibrating, but it could look like it.
3. Lisam frame with SPRacing FC and Foxeer HS1177 - Flies great.
4. Lisam frame with SPRacing FC and Runcam HS1177 - Now I have a lot of mid-throttle oscillations.
From this it looks like when using a Foxeer HS1177 with the provided camera mount, everything is smooth, but as soon as I put on the Runcam HS1177 with the camera mount that was provided with that camera, it is shaking alot at mid throttle.
I will try to mount the HS1177 on the camera mount plates that was provided with the Lisam frame and see if that makes it any better. When comparing the Lisam frame with a martian I mounted the Beerotor on, the arms are much stiffer on the Martian, so I assume that the Lisam frame could be more affected by vibrations. • Posts: 947 Threads: 66 Likes Received: 350 in 248 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Apr 2016 Reputation: 34 07-Jul-2016, 05:57 PM (This post was last modified: 07-Jul-2016, 05:59 PM by oyvinla.) It turned out it was the camera mount for the runcam. I mounted the camera to the Lisam side plates and the vibrations are gone. It is strange because the Foxeer mount is almost identical, but did not suffer from vibrations. ![[Image: hs1177vsswift_1024x1024.png?v=1458808067]](http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1178/4226/articles/hs1177vsswift_1024x1024.png?v=1458808067) • Posts: 947 Threads: 66 Likes Received: 350 in 248 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Apr 2016 Reputation: 34 I moved up to Betaflight 3.0.0 RC7, and it looks to be a big change in how the PID-controller works. The P- and D-gain can now be adjusted much higher on roll and pitch axis. HW spec: xracer F303 V3.1 8K/4K Multishot Racerstar 20A BLheliS ESC Racerstar 2205 2300KV motors Kingkong T5045 props I was out tuning the quad yesterday and I noticed that I have some tiny oscillations on the roll axis that I can't get rid off. It mostly occurs during mid throttle flights and affects my D-gain quite a bit. From the picture below, my D-gain is set low to 10, but if I increase D to 25-30, the motors will go mildly warm. I'm not concerned about it, but it would be nice to get rid of the oscillations. I think this is vibrations from the motors/props, but I think it is strange that it is only affecting the roll-axis and not the pitch. I will try to put on a new set of props to see if I can get rid of it. Code: H Firmware revision:Betaflight 3.0.0 (9ee9987) X_RACERSPI
H Firmware date:Aug 12 2016 10:51:24
H Craft name:
H P interval:1/4
H minthrottle:1020
H maxthrottle:2000
H gyro.scale:0x3d79c190
H acc_1G:0
H vbatscale:111
H vbatcellvoltage:33,35,43
H vbatref:1826
H currentMeter:0,380
H looptime:125
H gyro_sync_denom:1
H pid_process_denom:2
H rcRate:100
H rcExpo:10
H rcYawRate:100
H rcYawExpo:10
H thrMid:50
H thrExpo:0
H dynThrPID:20
H tpa_breakpoint:1650
H rates:85,80,80
H pidController:1
H rollPID:63,40,10
H pitchPID:90,60,40
H yawPID:65,45,20
H altPID:50,0,0
H posPID:15,0,0
H posrPID:34,14,53
H navrPID:25,33,83
H levelPID:50,50,100
H magPID:40
H velPID:55,55,75
H dterm_filter_type:1
H dterm_lpf_hz:9000
H yaw_lpf_hz:8000
H dterm_notch_hz:0
H dterm_notch_cutoff:15000
H deltaMethod:1
H rollPitchItermIgnoreRate:200
H yawItermIgnoreRate:50
H yaw_p_limit:500
H dterm_average_count:0
H vbat_pid_compensation:0
H pidAtMinThrottle:0
H toleranceBand:0
H toleranceBandReduction:0
H zeroCrossAllowanceCount:2
H itermThrottleGain:0
H ptermSetpointWeight:231
H dtermSetpointWeight:3
H yawRateAccelLimit:0
H rateAccelLimit:0
H deadband:0
H yaw_deadband:0
H gyro_lpf:0
H gyro_soft_type:0
H gyro_lowpass_hz:9000
H gyro_notch_hz:0
H gyro_notch_cutoff:15000
H acc_lpf_hz:1000
H acc_hardware:1
H baro_hardware:1
H mag_hardware:1
H gyro_cal_on_first_arm:0
H rc_interpolation:2
H rc_interpolation_interval:9
H airmode_activate_throttle:1350
H serialrx_provider:7
H unsynced_fast_pwm:0
H fast_pwm_protocol:3
H motor_pwm_rate:400
H debug_mode:0
H features:8915210
![[Image: gK7eRNf.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/gK7eRNf.jpg) • Posts: 947 Threads: 66 Likes Received: 350 in 248 posts Likes Given: 164 Joined: Apr 2016 Reputation: 34 15-Aug-2016, 09:35 AM (This post was last modified: 15-Aug-2016, 10:06 AM by oyvinla.) I just installed Betaflight Blackbox explorer and as you can see from the graphs, it looks like the roll axis is more affected by the motor noise. I guess that is why I got all those small oscillations Roll Axis: ![[Image: yR4y4Ya.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/yR4y4Ya.jpg) Pitch axis: ![[Image: ZIR6ioH.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/ZIR6ioH.jpg)
After some reading about the new notch filter in Betaflight 3, I will try to set gyro_notch_hz = 260 and keep the gyro_notch_cutoff = 150hz to see if that helps • Posts: 5 Threads: 2 Likes Received: 1 in 1 posts Likes Given: 0 Joined: Oct 2016 Reputation: 0 17-Oct-2016, 06:49 PM (This post was last modified: 17-Oct-2016, 06:49 PM by TopJimmyCooks.) Check those cameras (esp the runcam swift) to make sure there is a piece of foam between the board and the back door, the boards are too loose in the older ones and allow the board/chip to vibrate. |
