Heya dear Forum members,
it's time for news from the bleeding beginner's front again..
So far this hobby has got me smoking like never in my life, and I've started drinking beer early afternoon. I must admit it makes it a lot more bearable to be blatantly failing like I am right now. Maybe it's my usual "luck with things" that has accompanied me throughout my life so far,
but I reckon that this whole FPV-quad-stuff is sort of the master class of RC. I have some very humble experience from early youth, but given my age, it's  eons ago, and *Lord, has the equipment changed!
For whoever is beginning as well and reading this: Don't let yourself get impressed by what I'm about to write. One, it absolutely doesn't mean that you're going to experience the same excruciating sleepless nights (..*your choice, after all..), and since I know virtually nothing about all this, it's very probable that I'm just stumbling around blindfolded. However,
as I just said, this is Masterclass of RC! So don't expect to take off from scratch. Like everywhere else in life, it's only by falling on your face that you learn the most. Know that, in that very moment that it feels incredibly uncomfortable, juggling despair and outrunning your FC in nervous frequency, you are learning the most. You'll drop inside your bed exhausted, frustrated and just gingerly enlightened, but the next time you'll be facing your personal FPVquad mystery, you'll notice that you have already evolved. In my case, I keep laughing at myself just the night before, at how blindfolded and erratic my attempts were, and yes, I'm learning. Problems that don't resolve quickly build character, trust me, and apparently you'll need a lot of it in order to succeed in this hobby. If you're just looking for some leisurely pursuit of your spare time, this might not exactly be it. Don't forget to take breaks, feed yourself and go outside the house for walks or some physical exercise. You won't see the problem more clearly if you keep being stuck in front of it..
It's fought-for evolution of your reasoning, and it costs energy in a way that is hard to compare to other challenges. These are special people, and the fact that they're all so humanly willing to help just means that they've been there before you, and that they want to help you out in order to lessen your frustration, in order to accelerate your progress - because they know how it felt some time ago.
You have to learn the lessons of life yourself, though. Support makes it more bearable, but the emotional process giving you more overview and competence has to be fought by yourself. You'll benefit enormously from this frustration-tolerance-training, though! The qualities you add to your personality will be an important asset for the innumerable other challenges life has to offer. You'll become more of an enjoyable person, you'll find detailled perspectives on life & technology that the vast crowd is missing. Tough training, but enormous benefits.
So much as far as my newbie-opinion is concerned - and underlining again that I consider myself in no position to teach anyone anything - just sharing experiences..

Okay, I've made some progress. To my eyes even enormously, but my micro-quad keeps telling me I don't know anything. It's probably right.
After the subtotal dissolution of my mental concept of how to solve the partying crowd of problems in front of me,
I've changed the receiver, and changed it back, dismantled the whole construction, trying to test every element, but with my very humble electronic skills I didn't get too far, so I limited myself to cleaning up the build a bit. You'll be very happy to have a scalpel blade or similar around: You'll need it to cut off tiny edges of cable-ties and fit things together in a tolerable fashion. The positioning of the (replanted..) AC800 receiver was a task, the pictures show what I've come up with:


The receiver is arranged vertically because the antenna protruding from it is really, really very short (..and weak, i have the impression.)
In general, this receiver is driving me quite nuts: After innumerable attempts at updating the firmware and installing drivers onto my (Windows - if you have any other OS available - USE IT! Window's just not made to juggle and communicate ICs - on the contrary: It often feels like Mr. Gates gave his employees the task to come up with the least compatible solution in order to sell further peripherals. Connectivity is a big issue..
It took me three nights to figure out driver issues and getting my Taranis, the FC and the receiver to talk to each other without stomping on each other's feet. The recollections of those nights are somewhat blurred, as I was and honestly still am drunk with fatigue from work, so I fear I've been running in circles most of the time. Inform yourself before trying to reinvent the wheel - many others have been there before you, use their experience they are willing to share. It's a beautiful, priceless gift! Not taking it into consideration is not only daft, but respectless of the work done so far.
I dug through posts and youtube videos, and finally got all the settings how they should be. Today it really seemed like I'd be able to undertake my maiden flight with the 90GT, *gosh I was so thrilled!!
I knew that the exhilaration would last only a little while, so I refrained a moment from trying "for real" and made sure about a dozen times over betaflight that everything was working as I thought it should. I set up a double-switch arming procedure and fiddled around with my gimbal sticks in the breaks I took from frustrating myself with the quad:

It felt like an excuse to take a break, but I enjoyed contemplating stick length and surface. Indeed, as I am a "thumber", the greater stick surface greatly facilitates haptic feedback of the stick position for me! I guess that "pinchers" or combined thumber-pincher wouldn't like my setup too much, but it works very well for me now. If I only had something to control with it!
I reworked the surface a little, mainly cleaning sharp edges and machining residues. Shortened the upper part as well, and enlarged the borehole of the tube underneath, so that the stick surface can settle closer to the gimbal. It's sort of like a short gear lever in the car, it speeds up movements.
So now I have the latest versions of betaflight and OPEN Tx (..the stable ones) on the 90GT, calibrated esc's (three times..), BUT:
In idle, one motor just doesn't want to play along the others. The readings in bl_heli suite are normal, though.
Another problem is that bastard of a receiver:
When connected to the pc, it readily binds to the Tx and everything appears to work just perfectly. I can't bind it to the Taranis as soon as I unplug the micro-usb, though. It drops out of connection as soon as I have to change the batteries, so back to the pc, connect the FC and bind the receiver.
Funny enough, the receiver DOES bind (solid red led) when not connected, or at least it pretends to, since the taranis doesn't give any RSSI reading then. Obviously the 90GT does not show any reaction when bound the "classic way". Once connected to the pc, again no problem.
Got it running apparantly decently, though (..always with connected usb, then unplug and set on the ground for takeoff..), but despite having tried three different batteries, the thing struggles even to hover. Using ground-effect, that is, in order to hop around a couple of centimeters off the ground.
When in idle, sometimes all propellers seem to turn at the same speed, but all of a sudden the front right one is lagging behind.
Over the betaflight motor controller I can power up the motors, and they seem to develop a lot more thrust than when trying LOS. (Sorry Oscar , but in this state of the quad I do not dare try FPV..)


Does anybody have an idea where I could be going wrong?
I'm exhausted, to tell the truth. For the moment, I give up with this quad and go on frustrating myself with the shuriken's esc's..

I'll be back for some more whining soon,

have a great weekend, everyone!!
Respectful salutes from Switzerland,
Emanuele
P.S. EchoBravo I got you! Am awaiting replies from the institutions we wrote about - will let you know asap!

Quick thought. If you are not doing it this way - turn on transmitter first, then plug in the battery. (Without USB.) (Some Rx don't care, but some do...)

..ah, yes: The receiver spontaneously drops out of connection (..the lady telling me "telemetry lost") and suddenly catches it again as a habit. That shouldn't be, no?..

(25-Mar-2017, 04:34 PM)sloscotty Wrote: Quick thought.  If you are not doing it this way - turn on transmitter first, then plug in the battery. (Without USB.)  (Some Rx don't care, but some do...)

Thanks, man - I've tried all variants several times,
but the only way to connect to the Rx is by "making it wait for the Taranis": Blinking 2-4 seconds before calling to bind with the Taranis. No other sequence seems to work..
I've ordered another AC 800, I'm sure I'll get it by the end of the year

I really don't know what you are doing wrong here, but in about a week, I'll be able to show you exactly how this should work as I just ordered one of these myself!

(26-Mar-2017, 10:20 AM)unseen Wrote: I really don't know what you are doing wrong here, but in about a week, I'll be able to show you exactly how this should work as I just ordered one of these myself!

 Oh, good luck with it, my Dear! - it really kills me not being able to thrash around the appartment with it. Been practicing hovering with the Shuriken (  ) inside my living room tonight out of sheer frustration. Ok, just one Lipo. Went on the roof of the building after stripping the isolation off a few cables..

Update: I've given up.
Not on the 90GT, since it really is a neat little quad (..and light! ..and so small!..), but I'm pretty sure that there is more than just one little thing wrong with its components. Contacted banggood on the subject, and they've been asking for the usual youtube-video as well as the packaging it was delivered in..?!? Of cooouuurse, I keep all funny smelling plastic bags under my bed!
Wrote a "firm" email, but included a couple of pictures as well (one prop not spinning at middle throttle, receiver showing connection but no reading on betaflight etc.) I'm curious how they'll handle this. I really hope not disappointingly, as I like their range of products and they're the fastest shippers for Switzerland..  I intended being a good customer, that's what I told them. No more orders until I know..
However, this morning at 1 a.m. it just struck me, and I started my own micro-build. Juggled together parts that I had ordered independently (..and which, to be honest, didn't really fit together, but: It connected perfectly with everything at the first try and setup took 20min!), I'll be posting a couple of pics of the built in case someone's interested on how NOT to do it, but I've - as usual - learned a lot.
Setting up and smoothing out the Shuriken X1 took no longer than 10min. afterwards. Building your own quad really is worlds apart from juggling the unknown..

It's too bad you gave up
I really enjoy this little gem, Did you update the ESCs firmware? best method is with the BLHELI chrome extension, easiest way.
Also you can switch to DShot600 on the Betaflight configuration, then you don't really need ESC calibration, I also wanted telemetry so I added an OSD
Here is how i did it:

(04-Apr-2017, 02:48 PM)sevet Wrote: It's too bad you gave up
I really enjoy this little gem, Did you update the ESCs firmware? best method is with the BLHELI chrome extension, easiest way.
Also you can switch to DShot600 on the Betaflight configuration, then you don't really need ESC calibration, I also wanted telemetry so I added an OSD
Here is how i did it:

..wow, man, that's awesome!!!
I'm a little weary from 5 sleepless nights spent over that little bugger, and I'm positive I have more than one hardware-problem. I've done it all (flashing, updating etc.) multiple times, but it just won't move.
Waiting for banggood CS @ the moment, but they seem to ignore my pledge, to be honest. VERY BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE. I've written my fingers bloody upon describing the problem, adding pictures and movies, but  just no reaction, and it's three weeks now. Since it was my virgin attempt at fpv-quads, it litterally blew my confidence and motivation, so I decided to leave the problem where it was and started practising with the Shuriken X1 inside a subterranean parking lot at night  first, then (..that's until today) with a 6-inch helix build which is soothing my open wounds quite nicely. I know it's the other extreme of the 90GT, but I'm really enjoying the torquey feel of those 6-inch-3blades..
I'm a total beginner, just managed barrel rolls and coordinated turns in Airmode today. It's still in one piece, quite surprisingly
The lil-quad-sector does fascinate me, though. Just ordered a 3-inch BoltRC kraken-frameset, and I'm supercurious how that neato organoïd bugger's gonna feel like.
Biiiiigg thumbs up for your post, however!! *bowing in awe..
I'll be doing my best to catch up with you guys,
at the moment I'm just marvelling at your proficiency, and it's greatly motivating me!
*tigerhug,
Emanuele

(04-Apr-2017, 07:14 PM)campagnium Wrote: ..wow, man, that's awesome!!!
I'm a little weary from 5 sleepless nights spent over that little bugger, and I'm positive I have more than one hardware-problem. I've done it all (flashing, updating etc.) multiple times, but it just won't move.
Waiting for banggood CS @ the moment, but they seem to ignore my pledge, to be honest. VERY BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE. I've written my fingers bloody upon describing the problem, adding pictures and movies, but  just no reaction, and it's three weeks now. Since it was my virgin attempt at fpv-quads, it litterally blew my confidence and motivation, so I decided to leave the problem where it was and started practising with the Shuriken X1 inside a subterranean parking lot at night  first, then (..that's until today) with a 6-inch helix build which is soothing my open wounds quite nicely. I know it's the other extreme of the 90GT, but I'm really enjoying the torquey feel of those 6-inch-3blades..
I'm a total beginner, just managed barrel rolls and coordinated turns in Airmode today. It's still in one piece, quite surprisingly
The lil-quad-sector does fascinate me, though. Just ordered a 3-inch BoltRC kraken-frameset, and I'm supercurious how that neato organoïd bugger's gonna feel like.
Biiiiigg thumbs up for your post, however!! *bowing in awe..
I'll be doing my best to catch up with you guys,
at the moment I'm just marvelling at your proficiency, and it's greatly motivating me!
*tigerhug,
Emanuele

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0...sp=sharing
Link to a couple of videos with the problem for anyone interested..

Those RTF quads without radio (or maybe even with) are really tricky, I've had about 3 so far,
I'm not a beginner but it usually takes me ~3 hours to set each one up,
ARF / RTF it most certainly ain't
So i can see how it can be frustrating for someone new,
When they have much more to learn and setup, like the RC....

(04-Apr-2017, 10:51 PM)sevet Wrote: Those RTF quads without radio (or maybe even with) are really tricky, I've had about 3 so far,
I'm not a beginner but it usually takes me ~3 hours to set each one up,
ARF / RTF it most certainly ain't
So i can see how it can be frustrating for someone new,
When they have much more to learn and setup, like the RC....

Yup!, I don't consider them beginner's territory anymore,
but very advanced - already the soldering is darn tricky with those micro-pads..
I don't know what to do anymore, too tired anyway. Actually had two further attempts tonight which went down the drain. The more I fail, the more I want one of those brushless dwarfs, *dammit!
Guess I'll go for the opposite, which has worked incredibly well immediately: First my 6 inch Helix,
and maybe I should go for a 7 inch..
Thank you for sharing!

I just can't leave that cute brushless thingy alone. *darn..
Following Unseen's advice, I "Frankensteined" motors and components together to get a functional assembly. Latest firmware for FC and ESC's, tried several combinations, Rx config and all that stuff. Calibrated ESC's. Everything looks fine, BUT:
I can't get it to arm. Really. Even after enduring innumerable tutorials on min_check, min_throttle and so forth.. (Hi, Joshua - thank you, really.. it still doesn't work, though.)
Read posts in this forum and others, tried all variants of ppm values, it still just doesn't want to arm in betaflight. The Rx ruler is moving, and the limits set correctly, flight mode selection & beeper work just fine, but no yellow tab in the arming mode.
I'm forgetting something, but I can't put my finger on it. I felt so close this time, and now again so far awayyyyy... *booohohohooo..
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance..

What do you mean "no yellow tab in arming mode"?

Also, have you tried stick arming? ((You'll need to disable switch arming.)

I hate my micro-quad. Truly, madly, deeply, and it's mutual I guess.
Another night without sleep,
taking three micro-quads apart in order to get one semi-decent frankenstein, but - helas - it should not be..
At least I found the reason which was driving me nuts when trying to fix the problems with the initial 90GT. Fried ESC, as I thought..

So I rigged the micro Rx/ESC/PDB-combo HGLRC XJB V1 onto the 90GT, and took the motors of the iX2.
I was pretty confident, checking the collaboration of the components on the way, and everything seemed fine..

On betaflight, as usual, everything worked out. Once I tried flying, forget it, it would not lift off, appearingly too weak.
Ok, the new pdb/esc-combo allows up to 6s (!!??), so why not try 3s batts. Voilà, the trust appeared, upon which I realized that the KV's of the motors had to be too low.. Indeed: 3400KV, the originals were 7800 KV.
Ooookaaaayyy, despite my doubts about one motor being compromised I changed the motors back to the original ones..
Half of the micro-quad consists of zip-ties, by now..
Betaflight, Bl_Heli setup, calibration, fine-tuning of the Tx, and when connected to betaflight - as usual - everything sweet.
Once i put that lil' bastard on the ground and arm (..*geehh, had to play considerably with min_check/min_throttle and all that stuff in order to have it arming..), it just totally freaks out and is uncontrollable. Okay,
so probably FC, calibration of acc etc.
Done that, another try, ad idle throttle pretty cool, but try to touch a stick, and it flips over and throttles the living crap out of itself.
Checked on Bl_heli, and the ppm-values went bogus. Reset them, another try, again bogus ppm - settings.
Repeat a couple of times. So tired. Buuut I want to fly at home sooo bad and exercise / get stick-time, not solder-time..
Couldn't solve it. Maybe it's something about the PID's, but is it possible that everything goes so gloriously wrong for me?
Doesn't matter, far too tired now. Have to watch out not to throw everything (..all the micros, that is..) out of the window.
I hate what they do to me. The more questions pop up, the harder I try, and the less sleep I get. It's starting to become a little preoccupying.
Back to my patients,
so long..
changed motors, props again and pretty much everything. *faint...