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Eachine racer 250 FC F3 RACING DOF6
#1
Hi!

I got my racer 250 the other day and managed to set it up with my taranis without any issues. I flew the racer for a couple of times and everything worked fine. 
Yesterday i decided to upgrade the FC to betafligt (It came with a cleanflight fw, don't know which version though). Said and done, i put the fc in boot mode and updated the fw to betaflight 3.1.6 spracingF3. 

First issue i had was that the motors wouldnt react on any input at all. I tried using the tx as well as manually adjusting the levers in betafligt, turns out I had to re calibrate the ECS which i did. Now I could turn on the motors with betaflight but nothing happened when i tried to use the tx. I confirmed that the drone was armed and everything seem to be correct but when i increased throttle on my taranis nothing happened. 

I solved this by reverting back to betafligt 3.0.1 and now all throttle input worked. But when I armed the drone and idled the throttle without any props, two motors would rev up by themselves to ful rpm. I tried to put on the props and now 2 motors revved up while 1 was idle and 1 wouldnt start spinning till i increased throttle by 10%. I increased throttle to 25% and the drone flipped. 

I went back to the computer and flashed the fw back to cleanflight 1.14.2. Now i can manage to get the drone up in the air but it is extremely unstable, not at all like it was when i flied it the first time (it was very stable then). The motors don't stop at a stable rev according to input, they can just go off without any throttle input from me. 

What am I missing? 
Does it have something to do with PID setting? 
I dont know what protocol my ECS's have but these should not have been affected in anyway as i understand it. 
I also noticed that when i try to adjust my input endpoints in taranis they don't change in cleanflight. 
Before i managed to trim them between 1000 and 2000 but now they are set at 988 and 2022 ish. Does this have any bearing on my problem?
What is the best way to locate the problem? Is it hardware or software related?


Any help is highly appreciated!
Best regards,
/Aztrum
Thinking
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#2
Do you have a link to your quad? (product page) it would be nice to know what hardware is on that quad, FC, ESC, RX etc...
Did you flash firmware with erase all settings?
I think your quad shouldn't have any problems with newer BF firmware... probably just some wrong settings.. somewhere...
Don't be a LOS'er, be an FPV'er :)  My Gear - Facebook - Instagram - Twitter
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#3
(11-Mar-2017, 11:57 PM)Oscar Wrote: Do you have a link to your quad? (product page) it would be nice to know what hardware is on that quad, FC, ESC, RX etc...
Did you flash firmware with erase all settings?
I think your quad shouldn't have any problems with newer BF firmware... probably just some wrong settings.. somewhere...

Here is the link, i have the f3 racer dof6 FC
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-Dea...81719.html

Yes I did a full erase when i updated the firmware.
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#4
Okay it's using SimonK 12A, which won't support any of the new ESC protocols, but only standard PWM I believe. (no oneshot, no multishot, no dshot)
try that and let us know if that work?
Don't be a LOS'er, be an FPV'er :)  My Gear - Facebook - Instagram - Twitter
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#5
(12-Mar-2017, 01:59 PM)Oscar Wrote: Okay it's using SimonK 12A, which won't support any of the new ESC protocols, but only standard PWM I believe. (no oneshot, no multishot, no dshot)
try that and let us know if that work?

I haven't tried any of those protocols. As far as I know I have not manipulated with the ESCConfused in any way.
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#6
Ok I upgraded back to betaflight 3.1.6
I have standard settings and when I try to fly following things happens.
When I increase throttle by ca 10% only 2 or 3 motors start spinning while the rest are still. I need to go up to 45-50% throttle in order to get them to spin.
When they are spinning they seem to be stable. If I increase to 60% throttle the drone goes up. In flight it wobbles alot. I can keep it pretty stationary but if i tilt it in any direction it start wobbeling. I think it's the PID values that I need to change. I tried to tune them a little bit but no luck.

Am I assuming correct that it's the PID values or can there be something else not working in the drone?

BTW
is there anyway to update my ESC firmware through FC? I tried to connect with blheli but get "Serial interface "m4wFClntf" connected successfully. Connection to ESC #1 Failed; Please check data - and power - connections to ESC" I read that since it's SimonK 12A ESC it has another bootloader, is this right?
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#7
The escs doesn't have active braking so I wouldn't expect them to fly great as I am sure betaflight is designed mostly for escs with active braking. A guy I know struggled with that exact problem, and after he changed the escs to some blheli ones, it flew great
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#8
You should be able to use pass thru with Simon K or BLheli with Betaflight or Cleanflight.
You just cannot flash Blheli-S to Simon K because of hardware limitations.  

Before going through all of that, assuming you have 4 of the same ESCs with the same firmware, I suggest a simple test process every time before touching PIDs or anything deeper (like filters, etc.)

Did you calibrate ESCs after changing/updating betaflight?  

Pretty simple process, can do without even connecting USB to quad.  In my experience, with calibrated ESCs and Cleanflight or Betaflight default PIDs, the quad is at least flyable, though a bit sluggish with a wobble or oscillation when quick changes happen.

Plug in battery (hit arm switch if you have that set up) with throttle already set at max, instead of motors spinning all the way up, the ESCs beep a sequence.  

When it finishes, move throttle to zero, they beep again, when they finish, power off.  

Make sure quad is level when you plug in battery, if you have buzzer, it beeps after power up when quad is close to level without moving for a couple
seconds to let you know gyros are calibrated.

Now hover in level or stable mode and adjust trims to make quad stay level and steady.  At that point you should have as stable a quad as you can get with your current PIDs.



To get started on PIDs after that, search "Joshua Bardwell Practical PID tuning" on Youtube.

One last thing to remember, it's a journey not a destination.

Just my $.02,
Regards...
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#9
(18-Mar-2017, 05:34 AM)cyberdrone Wrote: Now hover in level or stable mode and adjust trims to make quad stay level and steady.  At that point you should have as stable a quad as you can get with your current PIDs.

Sorry, but this is bad advice! You should never use the trims on your radio to level a quad running Betaflight or Cleanflight. The trims on the radio should be centred and left centred.

If the quad drifts in hover while flying in a stabilised flight mode, the first thing you should do is calibrate the accelerometer on a level surface. If it still drifts in one direction in self levelling modes, you should use the specific stick commands that are available to adjust the accelerometer trim.

To use the stick commands, land, disarm and then, using the positions below as a reference, add trim by first raising the throttle to full and then moving the other stick quickly from centre to the trim direction and back to centre. Each movement from centre to an extreme and back again adds one 'click' of trim. The 'clicks' are very small. Add a few clicks, arm and fly again to check the effect. Repeat until the drift is gone. If you recalibrate your accelerometer again, it will forget your trim settings and you'll have to repeat this.

[Image: trim_zpscxvm2oj3.png]

The reason why you should do it this way is this:

Betaflight expects your yaw, pitch and roll channels to output 1500 when the sticks are centred. Using trim on your radio moves the centre position of the sticks and is not compatible with flying in acro mode. If (for example) your quad was drifting to the right and you use left trim on the roll axis to correct this, then when you switch to acro mode, the quad will always be trying to roll left when the stick is centred.
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#10
(18-Mar-2017, 10:21 AM)unseen Wrote: Sorry, but this is bad advice! You should never use the trims on your radio to level a quad running Betaflight or Cleanflight. The trims on the radio should be centred and left centred.

If the quad drifts in hover while flying in a stabilised flight modeleft when the stick is centred...

Geez dude relax, it's better than slamming your quad into a tree or the ground because you know nothing about tuning yet, all he wants to do is fly.

It was quick advice to get to the starting point, start understanding what's going on with the quad from a beginner standpoint that gets him in the air right now with a quad that's not going crazy and costing him money in parts, without having to learn to tune PIDs before he can fly. (which was the point of my post, which I guess you missed.)

OBVIOUSLY trims would need to be centered before tuning PIDs, along with a whole host of other caveats you do not mention, which he would find out about in great detail once he watched Joshua Bardwell as I mentioned.  I left that to THE expert.

And finally I said "At that point you should have as stable a quad as you can get with your current PIDs."  Which is completely true.  

Maybe you should get some perspective before being so critical of others, I do not consider it bad advice.



All that said, it is really great that you took the time to share what you did. 


Just my $.02...
--
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#11
Actually, I think unseen's response was spot-on. By your advice, he probably thought you actually use trim to adjust drifting and was describing the correct way to adjust the accelerator with stick commands
[-] The following 1 user Likes RENOV8R's post:
  • unseen
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#12
(06-Apr-2017, 04:11 AM)RENOV8R Wrote: Actually, I think unseen's response was spot-on.  By your advice, he probably thought you actually use trim to adjust drifting and was describing the correct way to adjust the accelerator with stick commands

Exactly so!

When I make a new model for a Betaflight/Cleanflight quad on my radio, I actually disable the radio's trims completely so that they can't be bumped accidentally.
[-] The following 1 user Likes unseen's post:
  • Drone0fPrey
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#13
(06-Apr-2017, 08:48 AM)unseen Wrote: When I make a new model for a Betaflight/Cleanflight quad on my radio, I actually disable the radio's trims completely so that they can't be bumped accidentally.
Thats a good tip. Thanks!
The Obsession IS Real!
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[-] The following 1 user Likes Drone0fPrey's post:
  • unseen
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