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Cant see the wood for the trees... or maybe its the vibration
#1
So I has a bit of a flight today. Set everything back to defaults. Build is as follows

FC is a  SP F3 
Motors are oldish 2212 1000kv generic blue motors.  (I think this may be the problem)
Props are 1045 Slow Fly's and have been well balanced
F450 Frame
2500mah battery
Running iNav

Here is my cli dump

Code:
# version
# INAV/SPRACINGF3 1.4.0 Nov 28 2016 / 10:59:44 (6bf7a91)
# pflags
# Persistent config flags: 0x00000001
# dump master

# mixer
mixer QUADX
mmix reset
smix reset


# feature
feature -RX_PPM
feature -VBAT
feature -UNUSED_1
feature -RX_SERIAL
feature -MOTOR_STOP
feature -SERVO_TILT
feature -SOFTSERIAL
feature -GPS
feature -FAILSAFE
feature -SONAR
feature -TELEMETRY
feature -CURRENT_METER
feature -3D
feature -RX_PARALLEL_PWM
feature -RX_MSP
feature -RSSI_ADC
feature -LED_STRIP
feature -DASHBOARD
feature -UNUSED_2
feature -BLACKBOX
feature -CHANNEL_FORWARDING
feature -TRANSPONDER
feature -AIRMODE
feature -SUPEREXPO
feature -VTX
feature -RX_SPI
feature -SOFTSPI
feature -PWM_SERVO_DRIVER
feature -PWM_OUTPUT_ENABLE
feature RX_PPM
feature VBAT
feature MOTOR_STOP
feature GPS
feature FAILSAFE
feature LED_STRIP
feature BLACKBOX
feature PWM_OUTPUT_ENABLE


# beeper
beeper GYRO_CALIBRATED
beeper RX_LOST
beeper RX_LOST_LANDING
beeper DISARMING
beeper ARMING
beeper ARMING_GPS_FIX
beeper BAT_CRIT_LOW
beeper BAT_LOW
beeper GPS_STATUS
beeper RX_SET
beeper ACC_CALIBRATION
beeper ACC_CALIBRATION_FAIL
beeper READY_BEEP
beeper MULTI_BEEPS
beeper DISARM_REPEAT
beeper ARMED
beeper SYSTEM_INIT
beeper ON_USB
beeper LAUNCH_MODE


# map
map AETR1234


# serial
serial 0 1 115200 38400 0 115200
serial 1 128 115200 115200 0 115200
serial 2 2 115200 115200 0 115200


# led
led 0 7,7::A:0
led 1 6,6::G:0
led 2 5,5::C:0
led 3 4,4::C:0
led 4 3,3::C:0
led 5 2,2::C:0
led 6 1,1::C:2
led 7 0,0::C:2
led 8 8,7::A:0
led 9 9,6::G:0
led 10 10,5::C:0
led 11 11,4::C:0
led 12 12,3::C:0
led 13 13,2::C:0
led 14 14,1::C:2
led 15 15,0::C:2
led 16 8,8::A:0
led 17 9,9::G:0
led 18 10,10::C:0
led 19 11,11::C:0
led 20 12,12::C:0
led 21 13,13::C:0
led 22 14,14::C:6
led 23 15,15::C:6
led 24 7,8::A:0
led 25 6,9::G:0
led 26 5,10::C:0
led 27 4,11::C:0
led 28 3,12::C:0
led 29 2,13::C:0
led 30 1,14::C:6
led 31 0,15::C:6


# color
color 0 0,0,0
color 1 0,255,255
color 2 0,0,255
color 3 30,0,255
color 4 60,0,255
color 5 90,0,255
color 6 120,0,255
color 7 150,0,255
color 8 180,0,255
color 9 210,0,255
color 10 240,0,255
color 11 270,0,255
color 12 300,0,255
color 13 330,0,255
color 14 0,0,0
color 15 0,0,0


# mode_color
mode_color 0 0 1
mode_color 0 1 11
mode_color 0 2 2
mode_color 0 3 13
mode_color 0 4 10
mode_color 0 5 3
mode_color 1 0 5
mode_color 1 1 11
mode_color 1 2 3
mode_color 1 3 13
mode_color 1 4 10
mode_color 1 5 3
mode_color 2 0 10
mode_color 2 1 11
mode_color 2 2 4
mode_color 2 3 13
mode_color 2 4 10
mode_color 2 5 3
mode_color 3 0 8
mode_color 3 1 11
mode_color 3 2 4
mode_color 3 3 13
mode_color 3 4 10
mode_color 3 5 3
mode_color 4 0 7
mode_color 4 1 11
mode_color 4 2 3
mode_color 4 3 13
mode_color 4 4 10
mode_color 4 5 3
mode_color 5 0 9
mode_color 5 1 11
mode_color 5 2 2
mode_color 5 3 13
mode_color 5 4 10
mode_color 5 5 3
mode_color 6 0 5
mode_color 6 1 2
mode_color 6 2 1
mode_color 6 3 0
mode_color 6 4 0
mode_color 6 5 2
mode_color 6 6 3
mode_color 6 7 6
mode_color 6 8 0
mode_color 6 9 0
mode_color 6 10 0

set looptime = 1000
set i2c_overclock = OFF
set gyro_sync = OFF
set gyro_sync_denom = 1
set acc_task_frequency = 500
set attitude_task_frequency = 250
set async_mode = NONE
set mid_rc = 1500
set min_check = 1100
set max_check = 1900
set rssi_channel = 0
set rssi_scale = 30
set rssi_ppm_invert = OFF
set rc_smoothing = ON
set input_filtering_mode = OFF
set min_throttle = 1150
set max_throttle = 1850
set min_command = 1000
set 3d_deadband_low = 1406
set 3d_deadband_high = 1514
set 3d_neutral = 1460
set 3d_deadband_throttle = 1000
set motor_pwm_rate = 400
set motor_pwm_protocol = STANDARD
set fixed_wing_auto_arm = OFF
set disarm_kill_switch = ON
set auto_disarm_delay = 5
set small_angle = 25
set reboot_character = 82
set gps_provider = UBLOX
set gps_sbas_mode = AUTO
set gps_dyn_model = AIR_1G
set gps_auto_config = ON
set gps_auto_baud = ON
set inav_auto_mag_decl = ON
set inav_accz_unarmedcal = ON
set inav_use_gps_velned = ON
set inav_gps_delay = 200
set inav_gps_min_sats = 6
set inav_w_z_baro_p =  0.350
set inav_w_z_gps_p =  0.200
set inav_w_z_gps_v =  0.500
set inav_w_xy_gps_p =  1.000
set inav_w_xy_gps_v =  2.000
set inav_w_z_res_v =  0.500
set inav_w_xy_res_v =  0.500
set inav_w_acc_bias =  0.010
set inav_max_eph_epv =  1000.000
set inav_baro_epv =  100.000
set nav_disarm_on_landing = OFF
set nav_use_midthr_for_althold = OFF
set nav_extra_arming_safety = ON
set nav_user_control_mode = ATTI
set nav_position_timeout = 5
set nav_wp_radius = 100
set nav_max_speed = 300
set nav_max_climb_rate = 500
set nav_manual_speed = 500
set nav_manual_climb_rate = 200
set nav_landing_speed = 200
set nav_land_slowdown_minalt = 500
set nav_land_slowdown_maxalt = 2000
set nav_emerg_landing_speed = 500
set nav_min_rth_distance = 500
set nav_rth_tail_first = OFF
set nav_rth_alt_mode = AT_LEAST
set nav_rth_altitude = 1000
set nav_mc_bank_angle = 30
set nav_mc_hover_thr = 1500
set nav_mc_auto_disarm_delay = 2000
set nav_fw_cruise_thr = 1400
set nav_fw_min_thr = 1200
set nav_fw_max_thr = 1700
set nav_fw_bank_angle = 20
set nav_fw_climb_angle = 20
set nav_fw_dive_angle = 15
set nav_fw_pitch2thr = 10
set nav_fw_roll2pitch = 75
set nav_fw_loiter_radius = 5000
set nav_fw_launch_accel = 1863
set nav_fw_launch_detect_time = 40
set nav_fw_launch_thr = 1700
set nav_fw_launch_motor_delay = 500
set naw_fw_launch_timeout = 5000
set naw_fw_launch_climb_angle = 10
set serialrx_provider = SBUS
set spektrum_sat_bind = 0
set telemetry_switch = OFF
set telemetry_inversion = ON
set frsky_default_lattitude =  0.000
set frsky_default_longitude =  0.000
set frsky_coordinates_format = 0
set frsky_unit = IMPERIAL
set frsky_vfas_precision = 0
set frsky_vfas_cell_voltage = OFF
set hott_alarm_sound_interval = 5
set smartport_uart_unidir = OFF
set battery_capacity = 0
set vbat_scale = 110
set vbat_max_cell_voltage = 43
set vbat_min_cell_voltage = 33
set vbat_warning_cell_voltage = 35
set current_meter_scale = 400
set current_meter_offset = 0
set multiwii_current_meter_output = OFF
set current_meter_type = ADC
set align_gyro = DEFAULT
set align_acc = DEFAULT
set align_mag = DEFAULT
set align_board_roll = 0
set align_board_pitch = 0
set align_board_yaw = 0
set gyro_lpf = 98HZ
set moron_threshold = 32
set imu_dcm_kp = 2500
set imu_dcm_ki = 50
set imu_dcm_kp_mag = 10000
set imu_dcm_ki_mag = 0
set pos_hold_deadband = 20
set alt_hold_deadband = 50
set yaw_motor_direction = 1
set yaw_jump_prevention_limit = 200
set tri_unarmed_servo = ON
set servo_lowpass_freq = 400
set servo_lowpass_enable = OFF
set servo_center_pulse = 1500
set servo_pwm_rate = 50
set failsafe_delay = 10
set failsafe_off_delay = 200
set failsafe_throttle = 1000
set failsafe_kill_switch = OFF
set failsafe_throttle_low_delay = 100
set failsafe_procedure = RTH
set rx_min_usec = 885
set rx_max_usec = 2115
set acc_hardware = 0
set baro_use_median_filter = ON
set baro_hardware = 0
set mag_hardware = 0
set blackbox_rate_num = 1
set blackbox_rate_denom = 2
set blackbox_device = SERIAL
set magzero_x = 1
set magzero_y = -75
set magzero_z = 39
set acczero_x = 0
set acczero_y = 0
set acczero_z = 0
set ledstrip_visual_beeper = OFF
set accgain_x = 4096
set accgain_y = 4096
set accgain_z = 4096

# rxfail
rxfail 0 a
rxfail 1 a
rxfail 2 a
rxfail 3 a
rxfail 4 h
rxfail 5 h
rxfail 6 h
rxfail 7 h
rxfail 8 h
rxfail 9 h
rxfail 10 h
rxfail 11 h
rxfail 12 h
rxfail 13 h
rxfail 14 h
rxfail 15 h
rxfail 16 h
rxfail 17 h

# dump profile

# profile
profile 0

# aux
aux 0 0 2 1500 2100
aux 1 1 1 900 1300
aux 2 4 1 1300 1700
aux 3 3 1 1300 1700
aux 4 9 1 1300 1700
aux 5 8 1 1700 2100
aux 6 0 0 900 900
aux 7 0 0 900 900
aux 8 0 0 900 900
aux 9 0 0 900 900
aux 10 0 0 900 900
aux 11 0 0 900 900
aux 12 0 0 900 900
aux 13 0 0 900 900
aux 14 0 0 900 900
aux 15 0 0 900 900
aux 16 0 0 900 900
aux 17 0 0 900 900
aux 18 0 0 900 900
aux 19 0 0 900 900

# adjrange
adjrange 0 0 0 900 1200 6 3
adjrange 1 0 0 1325 1625 7 3
adjrange 2 0 0 1725 2075 8 3
adjrange 3 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 4 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 5 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 6 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 7 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 8 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 9 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 10 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 11 0 0 900 900 0 0

# rxrange
rxrange 0 1000 2000
rxrange 1 1000 2000
rxrange 2 1000 2000
rxrange 3 1000 2000

# servo
servo 0 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 1 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 2 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 3 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 4 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 5 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 6 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1
servo 7 1000 2000 1500 90 90 100 -1

set nav_alt_p = 50
set nav_alt_i = 0
set nav_alt_d = 0
set nav_vel_p = 100
set nav_vel_i = 50
set nav_vel_d = 10
set nav_pos_p = 65
set nav_pos_i = 120
set nav_pos_d = 10
set nav_posr_p = 180
set nav_posr_i = 15
set nav_posr_d = 100
set nav_navr_p = 10
set nav_navr_i = 5
set nav_navr_d = 8
set deadband = 5
set yaw_deadband = 5
set throttle_tilt_comp_str = 0
set flaperon_throw_offset = 250
set flaperon_throw_inverted = OFF
set gimbal_mode = NORMAL
set fw_iterm_throw_limit = 165
set mode_range_logic_operator = OR
set default_rate_profile = 0
set mag_declination = 0
set mag_hold_rate_limit = 90
set p_pitch = 40
set i_pitch = 30
set d_pitch = 23
set p_roll = 40
set i_roll = 30
set d_roll = 23
set p_yaw = 85
set i_yaw = 45
set d_yaw = 0
set p_level = 20
set i_level = 15
set d_level = 75
set max_angle_inclination_rll = 300
set max_angle_inclination_pit = 300
set gyro_soft_lpf_hz = 60
set acc_soft_lpf_hz = 15
set dterm_lpf_hz = 40
set yaw_lpf_hz = 30
set yaw_p_limit = 300
set iterm_ignore_threshold = 200
set yaw_iterm_ignore_threshold = 50
set rate_accel_limit_roll_pitch = 0
set rate_accel_limit_yaw = 10000

# dump rates

# rateprofile
rateprofile 0

set rc_expo = 70
set rc_yaw_expo = 20
set thr_mid = 50
set thr_expo = 0
set roll_rate = 20
set pitch_rate = 20
set yaw_rate = 20
set tpa_rate = 0
set tpa_breakpoint = 1500

#

I am still learning  so no acro yet. Here is my blackbox data

https://1drv.ms/t/s!Ag0Ca76_pgbshSRH8UrQPRqkoLrk

I have played around with the PIDs, increasing P and I mainly, but I am still getting some high speed oscillations both in roll and pitch all the time and they never seem to settle down. I have watch lots of blackbox vids on you tube and still not really sure what I am looking for in the way of PID tuning through blackbox.

Could someone have a quick look and advise? I think the problem is more to do with noise but I am only taking a poorly educated guess.
#2
I see the most noise on the roll and pitch axis and a little on the yaw axis, if you zoom out to 10% then you must see a straight line that is moving, now you see a lot of noise on all the axis.
Reply
#3
And would that noise cause the high frequency wobbles I am seeing? I am just creating an isolated platform for the FC and also looking at balancing the motors. If that doesnt work I think a new set of motors is in order
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#4
You need first try to eliminate the noise, then you can go further wil PID tuning, so yes i think it's possible that the wobbling you see is caused by the noise in the first order and maybe not yet good PID tuning.
Noise have a lot of causes, prop unbalanced, motor unbalanced, frame resonation.
I don't think other motors will solve the problem.
You can also try to use some rubber rings between your flightcontroller and bolts.
Reply
#5
well adding the rings is good when you are at a point you can't eliminate the noise in any other way.
better is to actually "find" the source of the noise (either motor/prop/frame) and fix it.

you can check (propsoff) the following way for motor balance:
- connect usb and cleanflight/betaflight
- got to motor tab
- check the im aware and props are off tickbox
- connect the battery
- spin ONE motor and look at the vibrations on the accelerometr they should be really low if motors are ok and the same in terms of amount of noise
- most probably one of the motors is not balanced and this might generate the noise
All the best
Grzesiek (Grisha/ Greg)

Curently flyable: Nox 5, Nox 3, Minimalist 112, Scrap
Bench / in progres: fixing
thinking about building: 450
Reply
#6
So I had already checked the vibration. X and Y show about 0.15 - 0.2 However.... I hadnt noticed how much the Z vibration was... 2.5!! on 3 motors. Think its time for new ones????
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#7
You can check some motor balance videos on YouTube, maybe these can help you. You can search for: motor balance quadcopter
Reply
#8
(01-04-2017, 08:24 PM)UncleShark Wrote: So I had already checked the vibration. X and Y show about 0.15 - 0.2 However.... I hadnt noticed how much the Z vibration was... 2.5!! on 3 motors. Think its time for new ones????

Can you move the motor bells up and down? If not, it's maybe frame resonance or a generally too high noise level which can result in "unreal" spikes... Huh  Either way, soft mounting might help, but might be difficult to find just the right amount of softening.
Reply
#9
I hadnt checked the motor bells before..... 3 of them move.... 1 is really bad. It has about 0.8mm of travel. I have isolated the FC with some rubber mounts and its still bad. Interesting point is that the wobbles are always diagonally across the quad and always pivot around the line from the front left to the rear right of the quad.

New motors are on the way. If that doesnt solve it then not sure what way to go next
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#10
So you feel some space in the bearings if i'm right, that's not good at all, but good news that you already have ordered some new motors.
Reply
#11
(01-08-2017, 07:33 PM)UncleShark Wrote: I hadnt checked the motor bells before..... 3 of them move.... 1 is really bad. It has about 0.8mm of travel.

I had the same once, on some old motors, i simply glued the shaft into the bearings... Wink
Reply
#12
Haha. Genius idea. I have fitted the new motors and they dont even register on the trace now. I have tried the stock PID settings and it is loads better. Now onto some tuning... Will post results soon
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