(18-Apr-2017, 06:26 AM)campagnium Wrote: Heya man,
totally feel ya on this one!! (..take a look at my micro-quad-posts, if you want.. )

I am soooo bad at being patient, but very stubborn, and realised that there's no way to make it into this budding field (..I mean, come on - youtube-"fpv-stars" have a couple of thousand views..) without venturing onto thin ice by yourself. If you don't enjoy investigating & making up the specific logic that works for you (...and probably just you..), I'd suggest looking into the hobby in a couple of years, when everything will be commercialized and it will be very hard to see behind the corporate curtain. There'll be lots of happy sheep, by then ;-)
However, I sort of enjoy being a constructor in some developmental country,
even if it means that I have to watch most of my buildings spontaneously turning themselves into rubble ..
But I honestly can't tell f*** from s*** for now, so let's wait until I know what FC I like to use (..and which actually works reliably) and motors and lipos and, and, aaanndd..
I'll be posting my dismay along the way, with an ironic view on my suffering
Keep it up, you're an endangered species! (..I mean, actually being able to self-reflect and stuff..)

"when it becomes commercialized" are u serious...???UUUMMMM....DUBAI...really how much money was won there...i think its there man...down south in la and san fran. california,,,, fpvers rent football stadiums..oh its commercial...have you seen all the SHIT that is poping up..all commercial..

(19-Apr-2017, 07:00 AM)Tom BD Bad Wrote: Or maybe foolish!?
My main issue was getting the TX to communicate with the FC, and as I have no other FC, TX or RX, I am unable to confirm which was the cause of my problem's! Add to the equation all the other options in the TX menu, and I haven't even mentioned betaflight yet..!


Your right about that, but realistically there is a map, of which pads are for what, which should be enough, even for a noob! It was more that there was very little info on the TX & RX, between pimousse's A8S review and your help unseen, confirmed that I had bound the TX and RX and (pretty sure I had) set them up correctly.


These are exactly the experiences that I want to document, but trying to make the supplier see it this way... I am looking at the bigger picture of 'A Noobs Guide' how to become a multi rotor pilot. A year ago, my 5 year goal was to (at least have the experience to) obtain my RPAS (Remotely Piloted Aircraft System) license here in South Africa. 1 year on and I am still learning how to use yaw authority in acro mode, on an H8 mini with a stupid tiny toy TX!  

I've got a dog called Reviews, when he eats my paperwork I say "Bad Reviews!!"

i had this whole bla bla and it didnt post...but heres the short....you dont have enough experience in this to be making reviews,,your vids are no more then advertisements, you should do a vid on the minute you get it till it blows the fuck up..and your still saying how it is a good buy...just dont...your not helping things in this sport or life in that aspect...JUST SAY IT SUCKS ASS AND TELL THE COMPANY TO SHOVE IT....you arnt scared of a ANGRY you youyubers freakin out because you lied...bottom line..i didnt wake up this morning scared of shit..and gettin cut off of free parts ...and OH MY GOD, haveing to buy my own......IS NOT ONE OF THEM..grow balls...say it like it is...lesson one  in reviews..NO BULL SHIT...
give the company a chance but you have be truthful....isnt that what it is all about...or you should be paid alot more for lieing and selling their shit...right..

i have never bought a rtf, i dont ever think i will buy a totally complete quad/fpv...i like to build them to much...that being said i was around back when openpilet was the shit and a year later i built my own quad. a year after that i got my first goggles and camera..so now its been 4 years since my first quad flight.....my point is i have ran into problems in builds since day one...and i consider myself very knowledgeable on this subject...but i still will not review anything because "I" dont even have that confidence to tell someone if it is good or bad...my opinion dont mean crap...EXCEPT when it comes to FPV cameras..i will argue till death on the best bang for the buck any day..  

i have a DJI/gimbal/gopro/kumba cam fpv set  for 8-9 yrs, but that shit dont count as fpv raceing..and every other rc thing you can thing of..i have it too..since i was born i have built rcs..and im 42 now...but i still woulnt review....mmmmmmmmm....

but like was said in a previous post,  i can pick out the BS from the BS. i just wish there was so much of it...lmfao....

There is the more harsh language that you warned us of Nitro.

So some points that I think are BS (since we're discussing BS) about what you just said:

First... as for FPV quad racing being commercial... Rich kids renting stadiums and 2 or 3 big flashy events (Dubai, DRL, etc) doesn't exactly equal commercial. I think you could make the case that DRL makes it commercial if you consider the watered down casting aspect, the use of after-the-fact footage, and being sponsored by Bud Light. But it's still just one set of races and really is more about ESPN capitalizing on something interesting and doesn't make the hobby full on commercialized. You could argue that ImmersionRC, Fatshark, and GetFPV (and Bangood too if they were exclusively FPV stuff) are absolutely commercial in their behaviors but really until we start hearing about one of the 3 former selling to some major conglomerate for half a billion it's still just medium sized companies that market aggressively to a small niche market. I doubt that quad racing will ever really get to a full blown commercial status but I could see it growing from a small niche market to a larger niche market with major players that squeeze out more of the little guys in ways that kind of suck.

Next... I completely disagree that someone with a new perspective shouldn't do reviews. Just because it wouldn't help you personally doesn't mean that it doesn't have any value. I think Tom should absolutely be honest in his reviews but as he's mentioned he hasn't figured out which way to go. Someone with a ton of experience isn't going to think about the kind of crap that someone at my experience level might run into... You might not even notice if a certain no-brainer element comes without documentation because you've installed it several times but someone like Tom sharing that it took him 2 hours to find info on the internet because a company forgot to include that shit would easily affect my decision to buy a product on my first build or two. That is invaluable information. Diverse perspectives are never a bad thing.

Last, and I wont poke too long at this because I don't want to get too personal... but your experience makes you an expert at quads, not at reviews or information on the internet. Don't fool yourself into thinking you're some sort of expert on what should or shouldn't be shared on the internet. :p

Don't worry thought nitro, BS or not I still like ya and I think this thread has been a great discussion to have.

nitro20%, you may have noticed that this forum has no automatic censoring algorithm. Most of us on this forum tend to self-censor out of respect for each other. You're colorful language doesn't offend me personally, but it might others. This is not a warning - it is just an FYI.

(20-Apr-2017, 07:00 AM)nitro20% Wrote: i had this whole bla bla and it didnt post...

Wow man, a whole blah blah that DIDN'T post..?!
I haven't actually posted any reviews on YouTube and the reviews I prefer (and intended) to write are comparisons which will allow me to make a judgement between the merits of one product over another. The FC which burned... I said it burned in my review, I was also honest about whether I might have done something wrong to cause the flames!? The other FC I haven't written about at all because I am unable to use it, if I had made up a whole load of stuff then yeah... Fair enough.
You obviously haven't read any of my reviews..? I don't hold it against you, I guess from your colourful language that my mono-chromatic prose may be insufficient to maintain your attention!?

(20-Apr-2017, 07:00 AM)nitro20% Wrote: "I" dont even have that confidence to tell someone if it is good or bad...my opinion dont mean crap..

Surely the reason for posting on a forum is to share your opinions? While they may not mean much to you your experience and opinion might count for something with someone less experienced, well some of your opinions anyway!

(20-Apr-2017, 09:03 PM)Tom BD Bad Wrote: Wow man, a whole blah blah that DIDN'T post..?!
I haven't actually posted any reviews on YouTube and the reviews I prefer (and intended) to write are comparisons which will allow me to make a judgement between the merits of one product over another. The FC which burned... I said it burned in my review, I was also honest about whether I might have done something wrong to cause the flames!? The other FC I haven't written about at all because I am unable to use it, if I had made up a whole load of stuff then yeah... Fair enough.
You obviously haven't read any of my reviews..? I don't hold it against you, I guess from your colourful language that my mono-chromatic prose may be insufficient to maintain your attention!?


Surely the reason for posting on a forum is to share your opinions? While they may not mean much to you your experience and opinion might count for something with someone less experienced, well some of your opinions anyway!

lol....yeah..i went off,,huh,,,sorry bout that, i wanted to delete this all day....but its here now. ..and ALL of you are right...absolutely right....

  as a noob myself, i see were a noobs review would help another noob out..or ones who wanted to "buy and try, then say goodbye" ...... 
  to the more experienced quadist, it would be more of a advertisement, but one were we could get a close look at the crap that is being commercialized and sold today...
  when it comes to handling of the said quads,, that takes on a WHOLE other aspect,,, that really is in the "holder of the controller"...and what pid seems good for that person, and what rates they are used and what the quads rates are even capable of without frying something....
    i never see any RTFs with mentioned capacitors for the "new" power surge/esc braking problem "ive" ran into 4 times in 2 months...(with 3 different problems being the same malfunction)....ssssoooooo....idk.....
    FPV quality is a basic thing. so, that would be part of a review that has a BASE point..
   as was said at the beginning...its how gullible one is, not in those words. and what sells people to buy one or the other?...looks...price,, availability,,, C.S,, durability...  WHO knows why we buy the ones we buy or build the ones we build...i know i like "the" build, its get you "into" the quad and its functions..and how it wont function..LOL...

but as i thought today about this "review of reviews" i think i have decided to get into the "review" thing myself, instead of complain about it....although i prolly wont be receiving many FREE items, do to the honesty,,, but that will not stop me from buying things as soon as i can..
  and on that note..i have just made footing to open my RC/fpv store/small shop in my town, i will be able to service 10 small towns around me...with the nearest "RC" store 2-1/2 hrs round trip/w shopping, from my house. nitro fuel, props, batteries, ill be keeping my day job because i know its NOT going to make any money other then  paying the bills to keep it open. with my son and i running it 20+ hours a week.   

ILL BE SURE TO KEEP IT X RATED FROM NOW ON...LOL...

(21-Apr-2017, 01:08 AM)nitro20% Wrote: ... but as i thought today about this "review of reviews" i think i have decided to get into the "review" thing myself, instead of complain about it....although i prolly wont be receiving many FREE items, do to the honesty,,, but that will not stop me from buying things as soon as i can..

You know... a grumpy, critical, belligerent reviewer of quad parts would make for pretty good reading / watching in addition to the info one could learn. I'd probably watch that.

(20-Apr-2017, 10:33 AM)Carl.Vegas Wrote: There is the more harsh language that you warned us of Nitro.

So some points that I think are BS (since we're discussing BS) about what you just said:

First... as for FPV quad racing being commercial... Rich kids renting stadiums and 2 or 3 big flashy events (Dubai, DRL, etc) doesn't exactly equal commercial. I think you could make the case that DRL makes it commercial if you consider the watered down casting aspect, the use of after-the-fact footage, and being sponsored by Bud Light. But it's still just one set of races and really is more about ESPN capitalizing on something interesting and doesn't make the hobby full on commercialized. You could argue that ImmersionRC, Fatshark, and GetFPV (and Bangood too if they were exclusively FPV stuff) are absolutely commercial in their behaviors but really until we start hearing about one of the 3 former selling to some major conglomerate for half a billion it's still just medium sized companies that market aggressively to a small niche market. I doubt that quad racing will ever really get to a full blown commercial status but I could see it growing from a small niche market to a larger niche market with major players that squeeze out more of the little guys in ways that kind of suck.

Next... I completely disagree that someone with a new perspective shouldn't do reviews. Just because it wouldn't help you personally doesn't mean that it doesn't have any value. I think Tom should absolutely be honest in his reviews but as he's mentioned he hasn't figured out which way to go. Someone with a ton of experience isn't going to think about the kind of crap that someone at my experience level might run into... You might not even notice if a certain no-brainer element comes without documentation because you've installed it several times but someone like Tom sharing that it took him 2 hours to find info on the internet because a company forgot to include that shit would easily affect my decision to buy a product on my first build or two. That is invaluable information. Diverse perspectives are never a bad thing.

Last, and I wont poke too long at this because I don't want to get too personal... but your experience makes you an expert at quads, not at reviews or information on the internet. Don't fool yourself into thinking you're some sort of expert on what should or shouldn't be shared on the internet. :p

Don't worry thought nitro, BS or not I still like ya and I think this thread has been a great discussion to have.

thats is exactly what is wanted to say.....i didnt know that it was the RICH kids do the espn thing...and yeah espn bla bla...$$$$...fat shark and those guys are waiting for that opportunity....and i would to...sit back on my yacht and fly around my???,,,,ha ha ha...imagination???...
im glad i know..
i hope theres more to this thread...its a good one for alot of things...
i was kinda confused by "but your experience makes you an expert at quads, not at reviews or information on the internet. Don't fool yourself into thinking you're some sort of expert on what should or shouldn't be shared on the internet" 
 I thought thats what i said...we need experience to be a expert,,,not internet wiz..
  but to gain experience at the same time as reviewing a product one is learning about in the first place?? ....WELL???? isnt that just a "mock" up review for when one really knows what is what?? 
you have to admit....THERE ARE TO MAY VARIABLES FOR A NOOB TO MAKE AN EXPERT EVAL...except maybe fpv quality..and TX distance and basic set up..
but a noobs review should go on as long as he is learning the craft hes testing..that way one gets ALL the info to place comparison on the next "quad" they test..not just open fly for a week, heres a review, give me another...test that thing into the ground so one has a base point to start with...

point is, cant just do it for the free parts....got to REVIEW AND TEST THAT THING...no half ass...

(21-Apr-2017, 01:32 AM)nitro20% Wrote: ...THERE ARE TO MAY VARIABLES FOR A NOOB TO MAKE AN EXPERT EVAL...

I think I've pinpointed the misunderstanding. A noob trying to pose as giving an expert evaluation is absolutely dishonest and not appropriate. In fact I would say a new person who gives a review representing their position as an expert position is being dishonest. I think where the opinions diverge here is in the platform. An internet thought leader is not an expert adviser. An internet thought leader is simply someone who shares their thoughts and others are interested in those thoughts. While they are likely to have influence it is up to the audience to be mature and intelligent enough to recognize that the internet is a source of communication and not a source of truth. 

Tom, if I understand correctly, is interested in sharing an experience from a point of view. One that others with a similar point of view likely might be interested in being an audience to. Some may be influenced by Tom, especially as he seems to have pretty good integrity and shares candidly. For someone with little experience I would be interested in what someone says because I see him as "someone who tried it first so that if I try it, I can avoid anything he had problems with"... sort of like learning vicariously from his experiences. Imagine the common thing that parents say "The second kid was easier". First time parents who have been very close with other parents of babies similarly learn from the mistakes of their friends and family members and are still prepared to do an even better job with their own child.  

A new person's experience would also be valuable to someone with experience. For 2 quick examples, simply out of nostalgia or understanding "what it's like for new people these days". Someone who started building and flying 2 or 3 years ago would have had a different new person's experience than someone starting today. I am sure that Unseen wasn't shopping around for DShot ESCs on his first build :p but I can assure you Unseen's experience with DShot ESCs would be different than mine because I dont look at them from a point of view of "I don't have to calibrate these any more", I look at it as "I can spend the brain power that I would have used learning to calibrate ESCs towards really assuring that I get the right flight controller" or something like that... 

The key is to pay attention to, and to believe people when they say "I feel" or "I like these" or "They don't work for me" and notice how those  are emotional terms. These are the kinds of words that a reviewer would use. Alternatively someone who focuses on the stats, discusses the results of research and experimentation, and can break down the science would be the types of topics an expert would use.

BTW, Tom: Can you PM me a link to your reviews or post them here I really am interested in reading

(21-Apr-2017, 01:25 AM)Carl.Vegas Wrote: You know... a grumpy, critical, belligerent reviewer of quad parts would make for pretty good reading / watching in addition to the info one could learn. I'd probably watch that.

man i get this alot...i am a happy go luck smiles of smiles..i could care less about any of it really..but i do it for the sake of being a human... im not grumpy, i dont think?  i am CRITICAL, and i can be a bit belligerent ...but not to the point where its a quality of mine.....more critical and with out sympathy for a  big % of living humans or "excuses" of ANY kind..i have lived a long and rough life..and now that i am a upstanding part of this out of control human society, im not sure if  these old boys (the human race) are right about some stuff...this is of-course 15-20 yrs ago i was a mess up..and i have always been a hard working human since 10yrs old in my grampas meat packing plant..
so yes... VERY critical of the human race, and it leaks over to everyday life..
my critical thing is about: a product/company's ability to stand 100% behind what ever it is they say...or said it to be...
so if it is said .."this is the newest latest most efficient thing you've seen today" welp...i want to see that without a dought or looking with a fine tooth comb..other wise the box should say its "a minor upgrage and youll prolly never notice", but the same great parts we always use....bla bla bla....i know its a sellin thing....but THE LIES..  all THE LIES...we live in a world of it...the dump is filled with it..things that didnt work as it should of...
ill prolly start reviewing in the next week or two..maybe a shop opening promotion thing too..

(21-Apr-2017, 03:43 AM)Carl.Vegas Wrote: I think I've pinpointed the misunderstanding. A noob trying to pose as giving an expert evaluation is absolutely dishonest and not appropriate. In fact I would say a new person who gives a review representing their position as an expert position is being dishonest. I think where the opinions diverge here is in the platform. An internet thought leader is not an expert adviser. An internet thought leader is simply someone who shares their thoughts and others are interested in those thoughts. While they are likely to have influence it is up to the audience to be mature and intelligent enough to recognize that the internet is a source of communication and not a source of truth. 

Tom, if I understand correctly, is interested in sharing an experience from a point of view. One that others with a similar point of view likely might be interested in being an audience to. Some may be influenced by Tom, especially as he seems to have pretty good integrity and shares candidly. For someone with little experience I would be interested in what someone says because I see him as "someone who tried it first so that if I try it, I can avoid anything he had problems with"... sort of like learning vicariously from his experiences. Imagine the common thing that parents say "The second kid was easier". First time parents who have been very close with other parents of babies similarly learn from the mistakes of their friends and family members and are still prepared to do an even better job with their own child.  

A new person's experience would also be valuable to someone with experience. For 2 quick examples, simply out of nostalgia or understanding "what it's like for new people these days". Someone who started building and flying 2 or 3 years ago would have had a different new person's experience than someone starting today. I am sure that Unseen wasn't shopping around for DShot ESCs on his first build :p but I can assure you Unseen's experience with DShot ESCs would be different than mine because I dont look at them from a point of view of "I don't have to calibrate these any more", I look at it as "I can spend the brain power that I would have used learning to calibrate ESCs towards really assuring that I get the right flight controller" or something like that... 

The key is to pay attention to, and to believe people when they say "I feel" or "I like these" or "They don't work for me" and notice how those  are emotional terms. These are the kinds of words that a reviewer would use. Alternatively someone who focuses on the stats, discusses the results of research and experimentation, and can break down the science would be the types of topics an expert would use.

BTW, Tom: Can you PM me a link to your reviews or post them here I really am interested in reading

haha i was actually sad i didnt have to calibrate esc on my last 4 complete fpv builds in the last 2 months...(no free parts all bought and paid by me) it was like i was forgetting something..... tuneing dshot and f4 8k 8k...prolly be some learning AGAIN there too..... old emax anolog esc and f1 naze on cleanflight was the last thing i tuned...betaflight and f4 chip is just fliable right now...but im noticing it needs some tuning after i flew today..

theres no need to tune the wrecking..it wrecks just fine....head on metal pole....tuned just right, to stay in one piece and fly away..lololollllllol
 
yep that boils it down...if its all over the web...it has to be true and we should believe it all.lol..  common sense...it takes all types bla bla...but maybe this thread might help some be alittle more critical on their reviews, just so a product can be just that much better when it is released, hell thats what the company wants by a review. right?...WHAT CAN BE IMPROVED?

My reviews -
https://oscarliang.com/comparison-review...8-vs-e010/

http://intofpv.com/t-irangex-ir-i6x-fs-i6x-clone

http://intofpv.com/t-realacc-v1-brushed-micro-fc

http://intofpv.com/t-racerstar-8520-moto...g-cheapies

And if you're interested, my how to flash silverxxx firmware to H8 mini blue board. -

http://intofpv.com/t-silverxxx-acro-fw-f...blue-board

I have had some inspiring opinions from you guys in this thread and any further criticism is welcome, I'm happy to improve in any way I can. As I said I am happier with my comparison reviews than the others. The TX and FC took so long to arrive that the suppliers were expressing impatience, so the reviews ended up a little rushed, hence my displeasure in them...


Edit to add : Er, I just linked all my reviews in a thread called "bad reviews" not sure that was a great idea!

(21-Apr-2017, 06:18 AM)Tom BD Bad Wrote: My reviews -
https://oscarliang.com/comparison-review...8-vs-e010/

http://intofpv.com/t-irangex-ir-i6x-fs-i6x-clone

http://intofpv.com/t-realacc-v1-brushed-micro-fc

http://intofpv.com/t-racerstar-8520-moto...g-cheapies

And if you're interested, my how to flash silverxxx firmware to H8 mini blue board. -

http://intofpv.com/t-silverxxx-acro-fw-f...blue-board

I have had some inspiring opinions from you guys in this thread and any further criticism is welcome, I'm happy to improve in any way I can. As I said I am happier with my comparison reviews than the others. The TX and FC took so long to arrive that the suppliers were expressing impatience, so the reviews ended up a little rushed, hence my displeasure in them...

{The TX and FC took so long to arrive that the suppliers were expressing impatience, so the reviews ended up a little rushed, hence my displeasure in them.}

nice im gonna watch em... thats sounds so mest...a rushed review by a supplier...
my news paper. in my one stop light town. with the HEAD WATERS OF THE SAC. cleanest water on earth, said one a month ago...the amount of RAW SEWAGE in the lake is SAFE to SWIM in.....theres some things that are not suppose to go into a sentence together..

DAMN IT........WHY?????.....im going to bed...and when i wake up...IDK.....

I HAVE BOTH OF THOSE CONTROLLERS, INFACT I HAVE TWO FSI6, ONE FSI6X, AND ONE I-RANGE-X

AND THATS ALL IM GONNA SAY ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW....im at a loss of words....i just want to cry ...  AND THAT IS THE "TRUTH"