(13-Sep-2016, 02:01 PM)phara Wrote: This may be a noob question but as intoFP is aforum full of kind, well-mannered people:

Is there a way to NOT have your motors spinning when you arm your quad and still use airmode? Or is Miguel Arrs solution the only way to get those results?

From memory after BF 2.8.1 and up you can set Motor stop On so motors do NOT spin when armed, and still have a Airmode switch you can use when you get airborne as  Airmode on turns motor stop OFF in flight.  I set mine that way.

Or you can still set motor stop ON and then arm (Motors not spinning), and flick the airmode switch , motors spin up and then you can just punch out.

As I said, I have mine set to Motor Stop ON, and have an airmode switch (seperate to arm switch) and I get airborne first then flick Airmode on, and when about to land turn airmode off.

(13-Sep-2016, 02:20 PM)BigglesFPV Wrote: From memory after BF 2.8.1 and up you can set Motor stop On so motors do NOT spin when armed, and still have a Airmode switch you can use when you get airborne as  Airmode on turns motor stop OFF in flight.  I set mine that way.

Or you can still set motor stop ON and then arm (Motors not spinning), and flick the airmode switch , motors spin up and then you can just punch out.

As I said, I have mine set to Motor Stop ON, and have an airmode switch (seperate to arm switch) and I get airborne first then flick Airmode on, and when about to land turn airmode off.

Thank you, this is the solution I was looking for! Didn't use Airmode as I hoped not using it would improve my stick movement skills (that I am still lacking...).

I made a video on this if anyone is interested

Saying 'do what I say, not do what I do' won't protect you from ripping your face to shreds if you accidentally nudge your throttle stick! You won't be the first one to turn up at the emergency department at the local hospital for stitching after a simple mistake.

If you want to show some behaviour like this and you absolutely have to have the props on, use a current limiter. What you are doing in your video there is dangerous, irresponsible and above all, a terrible example to others.

Also, if you set your min_throttle correctly, there is absolutely no need to use an idle up switch if you are using air mode. Your min_throttle should be set to whatever throttle level is needed for all the motors to spin up reliably and then you should add a bit more to that so that the motors will not stop due to air resistance when doing a move with the throttle down.

Joshua Bardwell explained air mode and how to use it in a video some time ago. I suggest you watch that and learn from a pro.

Oh, and welcome to the forum. I'm not sure what other members think about you posting a dangerous and misinformed video as your first post here, but I personally think that making an introduction and saying hello first is the more polite way to join a smaller and more tight knit forum like this one.

Hi Chamathke,

Welcome to the forum. I have to agree with unseen about safety. I think if it were me and I realized I needed to make that disclaimer "this isn't safe" I'd probably have shut it down, took the props off, and started from the beginning. It might make sense to re-record. As for the accuracy of idle_up I don't configure it so I can't speak to the point but I do agree with what several others have said about arming and disarming air mode for landing. It's worked great for me.

In fact I just set my air mode to arm when in acro mode and disarm in angle/horizon this way just before I land I hit a switch that levels it out and turns off air mode and I can lightly let the throttle off and land gently... (hasn't worked that way so far but I am working on it ) A friend from an air field I am a member of recommended the technique and it almost works as soon as I get better at the last touch of throttle control before a landing.

(28-Mar-2017, 08:51 AM)unseen Wrote: Saying 'do what I say, not do what I do' won't protect you from ripping your face to shreds if you accidentally nudge your throttle stick! You won't be the first one to turn up at the emergency department at the local hospital for stitching after a simple mistake.

If you want to show some behaviour like this and you absolutely have to have the props on, use a current limiter. What you are doing in your video there is dangerous, irresponsible and above all, a terrible example to others.

Couldn't agree more

(28-Mar-2017, 09:05 PM)tozes Wrote: Couldn't agree more

Same  This pic is not mine, it was posted on betaflight blog a while ago... One broken finger and several stitches because of a miniquad:

Everyone has a tendency to underestimate the power of a quad's propellers, but all it takes is one mistake and the consequences can be absolutely devastating. The amount of damage that a seemingly innocent plastic propeller can do in just an instant is terrifying. Just do a Google image search for 'quadcopter injury'. (Only if you have a strong stomach!)

Even people who should know better are guilty of taking chances and paying for it. One of the absolutely most dangerous things you can do is to hold your quad in your hand, arm it and try tilting it to see what the flight controller will do. If you do that with props on and air mode enabled, the motors can spin up so quickly that the quad will literally jump out of your hand while it's very near your face. Flesh heals and bones mend, but new eyes are hard to come by. Cut an artery on your neck and you'll be dead in 30 seconds.

I treat any armed quad with propellers as if it was a bomb and keep well away from it. I wouldn't even contemplate arming any of my quads indoors with propellers on the motors, it's just too risky. For the same reason, I never use the feature that stops the motors when the quad is armed and the throttle is at minimum - rotating propellers are an unmistakable warning that the quad is armed and could take off at any moment.

You know, there are a handfull of important safety tips that would be great for new people to know. Between stuff like not having props on on the bench, making sure your FC has failsafe, making sure that no one is going to touch your radio while you retrieve your quad, proper care and transport of lipos... It would be great for someone to do a video on all of that.

I think I have an idea for a thread... maybe we as a forum can do a collaborative video!

Apologies if you felt that my initial video post was out of place but no one had replied to this thread in 6 months, I assumed that it was fine to restart the conversation.

I am very aware of the dangers of spinning propellers and I have experienced these dangers first hand (I have some reminders on my hands and arms that I only need to look at to remember). Needless to say, this video was edited with me choosing to keep this part in the video when I could have just as easily removed it. The point to that fail at the beginning was just that, it was a "fail" and meant to be a piece of humor. No one was in danger except for myself.

Furthermore, I feel that because I chose to keep those examples in, the people who watched my video know exactly why it is a bad idea to fly indoors. Everyone "talks" about why it is a bad idea but rarely do I "see" why or what can go wrong (I have seen Joshua Bardwell have an issue with his quad in one video, however)

I have shortened the video due to me feeling that it is too long, compared to my first video, this one did rather poorly and I felt that reducing the time would help me get my message across quicker.


I would implore everyone to discuss the main point of this video, whether my analysis of the difference between Airmode and Idleup was correct.

Your analysis is missing the entire point of air mode and why it was created in the first place.

To start with, using motor stop is dangerous because it's impossible to see if the quad is armed or not, especially from the point of view of a bystander. The vast majority of experienced quad pilots do not use motor stop.

As you correctly note, an idle up switch merely increases the throttle signal from the radio. Air mode was not created to be a substitute for an idle up switch. It was created to allow the flight controller to have more authority at low throttle to make it easier to do acrobatic moves.

If you are using a simple idle up switch, the flight controller cannot increase the throttle signal to any motor so that it exceeds the current throttle level. Air mode fixes this and allows the flight controller to spin up the motors for a move to levels that are higher than the current throttle level. This is what Joshua Bardwell explained very clearly in his video about air mode and that's why I suggested you should watch his video and understand the aim of air mode properly.

If you are using a flight controller that is running Betaflight or Cleanflight, an idle up switch is completely unnecessary. You should: turn off motor stop, set your min_throttle value to be whatever speed the motors need to start spinning plus 20 or so to make sure they can't stall in the air and use a switch to arm and disarm. If you use a three-position switch and add air mode plus armed to that switch then you can easily turn off air mode when you want to land.

If you are not running flight controller firmware that implements air mode then all an idle up switch will give you is a higher throttle value while the idle up is on. It won't give the PID controller increased authority so that you can more easily make moves while the throttle is at minimum.

Despite your protests to the contrary, your video shows you using your quad in a very dangerous way. In no way does your video show why what you are doing is stupidly dangerous (which is a more accurate description than saying it is a 'bad idea to fly indoors'). If you had accidentally tilted your quad a little too much when you had it in your hand with the props spinning and air mode enabled, it would have simply ripped out of your grip and probably have flown straight into your face.

The fact that you say you already have scars from quad inflicted injuries yet you still insist on doing stupidly dangerous things leaves me lost for words to be honest.

Dont be lazy  If you're going to do something. Do it right, and do it right the first time! Thats been my doing for the better part of my life.

Anyways Im still a bit new to configurations, but I started with (BF 3.1) no motor stop and airmode always on. So when I arm Im rtg. I ready my finger on my arming switch (2pos @ top left) when im about the quads width above the ground I throttle down then disarm immediately after in one smooth motion. 
Seems to be working well for me anyway, I started with lipo mounted on bottom also so Ive tried to be nice to them

I bet someones fingers would appreciate a similar practice

You don't actually have to go through that 'get your finger ready on the disarm switch' and get the timing right stuff.

If you turn off the option in the configurator that reads "Disarm motors regardless of throttle value (when arming via AUX channel), life becomes much simpler. What it essentially means is that if you're using switch arming, all you need to do is switch to disarmed as you are coming in to land. It won't actually disarm until you bring the throttle all the way down.

So it's sort of like an 'auto disarm on landing' setting.

(31-Mar-2017, 03:20 PM)The vast majority of experienced quad pilots do not use motor stop. Wrote: That may be so, yet there are inexperienced pilots who have learned from the very beginning that it is safer to have motor_stop enabled. 

Tell me why it is safer to have the 'motor stop' feature enabled.